(Almost) completely off topic but holy s**t - just watched the most awesome D&D type undead attack ever. Probably others must have seen it too but truly awe (and idea) inspiring.
Yes. I'd been waiting the entire series for something like that. Been wondering if it would be possible to capture some of that epic awesomeness at the table.
Spoiler alert, but perhaps a bit late!
I liked the idea of that undead army throwing them selves off the cliff, and then getting up almost immediately. It just shows what kind of cool stuff you can do with an army of the dead. I also liked the way the Whitewalkers just shatter normal weapons, and their aura of cold extinguishes nearby flames. I feel that we often forget to add these neat touches to our own monsters. But I agree that this is very inspirational. My campaign has yet to feature something of this scale, but who knows.
Well episode 10 was a real downer... 
Spoiler warning!
pukunui wrote:
I'd even go beyond literally recreating the scene from the show. Have a close ally of the players turn into a wight before their very eyes, and force them to kill their own friend.
Or you could stay clear of Game of Thrones entirely, but try to create a similar scenario within your own campaign. One where the players are completely surprised by overwhelming numbers of a frightening army. A negotiation that suddenly turns into a slaughter.
You have to be careful though with a scenario that is designed to be unwinnable. In a tv show, and in real life, a sane person would flee. In a tabletop game however, players are more tempted to keep fighting, because they may expect anything you throw at them to be beatable (especially if they get their hands on the dragonglass). So be aware of the possibility of a complete party wipe, or them killing the Whitewalkers and kind of ruining the tension. You can't really script these sort of things in a game that revolves around player agency.
Imaculata wrote:
iserith wrote:
iserith wrote:
It's up to the DM to set up the encounter and pose the right dramatic question. There should be no reason the PCs should ever think, "we have to kill them all" in a situation like this. If they do, that's on the DM.
Take the opening encounters from HotDQ as example. Are the PCs expected to slay every cultist and kobold attacking Greenest? No. It's, "can the PCs get to the keep?" And, "how much can they help until the attack ends?"
That is the tricky bit. I'm not saying it's impossible. But it's hard when you set up a situation, and there is only one way to solve it.
Part of the fun of DnD, is that you embrace what ever events flow from the actions of the players. You COULD describe the situation in such a way, that it is clear to the players that this is an unwinnable battle. And you could also make it clear that they should probably focus on saving as many wildlings as possible. But I don't think such a linear script is more fun than an open script. And I don't think you should ever introduce a really big bad villain to the players (The Nights King), AND offer them the only weapon that can kill that villain (Dragonglass), AND expect them not to try and kill that villain.
pukunui wrote:
Imaculata wrote:
As a general rule, I never introduce the big bad guy, and give my players the one thing that this guy is known to be weak against, and then shield him from harm. Players will screw you over, guaranteed. And rightly so. If the big bad shows up, of course you try to kill him. That is exacly the sort of reaction I would expect from any player.
If he's not supposed to die in this scene, then don't make him part of the scene.
That is why I don't have Darth Vader drop in just to look menacing, or have Sauron drop in to ruin a birthday party. If he's there, you can expect that the players will try to fight him.
If the PCs want to fight the Night King and manage to get past the horde of undead, climb the icy cliff to get to him while skeleton archers loose arrows at them, and take out the retinue of white walkers at his side, then they're welcome to it. It's more likely they'll be savaged somewhere along the way and the Free Folk will pay an even heavier price without their leadership to help evacuate.
Imaculata wrote:
iserith wrote:
No one had dragonglass arrows. What are you even talking about? And what dragonglass they did have they apparantly failed to recover before fleeing Hardhome.
Imaculata wrote:
iserith wrote:
Imaculata wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Here's how I would handle this scenario, if this were a session of mine:
The session has two phases: The diplomacy phase, and the attack phase. During the diplomacy phase, there is no sign of an attack yet. The players simply have to negotiate with the different tribes. The more tribes they get to join their cause, the better. Each tribe has their own leader, who has different griefances, and requires different arguments to be pursuated. The Dragonglass cache is an asset that the players can give to the wildlings to aid this cause, and to perhaps pull a reluctant tribe over to their side. The Fens are the hardest tribe to pursuate, and having them on your side actually has an adverse effect on the willingless of other tribes to join the players. Everyone hates Fens.
During the attack phase, at first the players must deal with just the Wights. The first White Walkers don't appear until much later in the battle, and the Night's King stays on the cliff, in view but out of reach and range. The players have multiple optional objectives during this attack, which should be much more than in the show:
-Help brace the door, to slow down the advance.
-Organize a defensive formation.
-Keep the Wights off the walls for as long as possible.
-Save wildlings that are trapped in a hut that is crawling with wights.
-Rescue Wun Wun the giant, and add him to your army. (Wun Wun helps slow the advance of the undead army)
-Retrieve the dragonglass, if it was given to one of the wildling tribes.
-Take down the ice spiders that try to flank Hardhome.
-Secure extra boats from a nearby burning shack.
-Keep as many tribe leaders alive as possible. (the more alive, the longer the players can hold out)
During the last part of the siege, White Walkers will start appearing. The DM narrates how the White Walkers easily shatter any normal weapon (preferably by first slaying an npc in front of the players), and how they seem unharmed by any ordinary weapons. If the players still have dragonglass, they may try to kill a White Walker at their own risk, which will reward them with a lot more evacuated wildlings. The Night's King also commands the undead to jump off the cliff, to the village below. This is when all defenses fail regardless, and the village becomes swarmed with enemies. The players must now flee, or die. All of the surviving tribe leaders and Wun Wun now start fleeing as well, so the players no longer have any choice but to do the same. The tribe leaders in this scenario, act as heroes, who help hold back the horde for a bit longer. Any tribe leaders that make it out alive, are a valuable army asset.
The Night's King watches everything unfold from the top of the cliff. He doesn't appear on the shore, until the players are at a large distance away from him, and then he raises all of the dead.
You miss the entire issue I'm addressing. You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth. You want to reference the episode WRT what the characters did and the scene they were dealing with. But when presented with the actual facts of the episode, as it unfolded, you change your point in reference to the different things the PCs might have/could have done differently. There's no such thing.
And there inlies the rub. If the PCs had recovered the dragonglass, maybe you, the DM, don't bring the Nights King down into arrow range so brashly. Or he waits until they are just far enough away. It's as if you feel powerless as a DM to make sure you are telling an interesting story by utilizing, and taking into consideration, the events as they unfold. And I find that odd.
DM's have agency too.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Imaculata wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Imaculata wrote:
You are making no sense. This is just very confusing. Is there anyone else in this thread that thought that I was being "adamant about adhering to a script" when I said that things should not be scripted like in the show? Because to me that sentence sounds like the exact opposite.
Wait, let me put in bold EVERY single time I said things should not be scripted. Maybe that should clarify my position.
So then answer one simple question then:
If the PCs did manage to somehow get their hands on dragonglass arrows in this hypothetical encounter, and if you the DM did not intend for them to kill him, why in the heck are you having the Nights King walk out onto the pier while still in their bow range as they drift away in their boat?
Imaculata wrote:
Yikes! Did I open a can of worms or what?
Synjin wrote: