If you are coming from 4E you are probably wondering what in the world I am talking about, but I skipped 4E and relative to a lot of other modern RPGs, 5E combat can still move too slow for my tastes sometimes. I think part of it is system-related, but a large part of it is also the "bad habits" picked up by 4E GMs and players relative to combat speed. In full disclosure I thought 4E was mostly a disaster, but I understand that some people enjoyed that style of play and that is perfectly fine - just wasn't my thing, in large part because the game was way too combat-focused and combat took way too long.
Now I am looking for ways to break those 4E habits and speed up 5E combat. Here are a few of my intiital thoughts:
1.) Limiting rules-speak and out of character table talk during combat. That's always been a preference of mine anyway, but I've noticed that I have to enforce it a lot more with 4E players since they are used to boardgame-type combat moves and powers. This has definitely made a difference, but not a huge one.
2.) Remove grids from batllemaps to abstract movement a little. This one I'm a bit torn on. Having a measurable scale on the map is definitely useful, but at the same time I have noticed that as soon as you break out the gridded battlemap, many players - non-4E ones included - naturally tend to start thinking more in terms of movement and combat rules than roleplaying actions.
3.) Theatre-of-the-Mind (TotM) combat for small encounters, battle maps for larger, more tactically interesting ones. TotM combat definitely goes a lot faster than mapped combat, so by using it for smaller combat encounters definitely saves time. I try to supplement TotM combat with images so that the players are still getting visual aids of the encounter.
4.) I'm considering using 1 hit-point Extras. I forgot what they were called in 4E, but it was an idea stolen from Savage Worlds that I liked, where the Extras in an encounter do normal damage but can only take 1 hit point of damage. I like the cinematic style of combat that this represents so I am seriously considering using it.
So what are your thoughts? Especially for those of you who also prefer a fast, cinematic combat pace, what other tricks, tips or ideas do you have for keeping combat moving?
I don't really agree with limiting "out of character" talk or removing grids as a way to speed things up. And while I loved minions in 4e, they're unnecessary in D&D 5e in my view.
What I do find works is encouraging players to buy into the notion that their turn is for acting, not for discussing what to do or thinking up a plan. I call it, "Ready, Dodge, Go," meaning when you're up in initiative you either immediately take your action or just say you're readying or dodging so the next person can carry on. I also encourage players to hand off their turn by giving a quick reframe of the situation and asking the next character or monster that is up "What do you do?" (As opposed to saying "Done" or just leaving it hang for the DM to pick up.)
I also use dice macros which speeds up play considerably. No dice to find, roll, and add up, and none to drop on the floor.
Thanks, I like your Ready, Dodge, Go idea better than what I do currently - if they aren't ready, I will skip them but then come back to them after the next person takes a turn. Your way is faster and puts a little more pressure on them to have an action ready when it's their turn.
Ansbach wrote:
Ansbach wrote:
SteveMND wrote:
Really it comes down to talking with your players about your expectations. I generally try to limit OOC stuff from the start of the session to the end, so I'm with you on that. TotM is faster so long as players simply give their actions, rather than playing 20 questions (you have to be very clear about the combat layout at the start and make sure you give the benefit of the doubt). Minions aren't really needed, but you can always use monsters with lower HP than average to speed things up (I suggest against this, but YMMV).
Finally, you might just not work well with this group.
Shiroiken wrote:
Interesting. Actually my group became faster in terms of turn-time while playing 4e. When playing 3e, it was mostly about looking into rule-books about spells, special rules, while the weapon fighters needed to recalculate their bonuses for every attack, etc.
In 4e they had more defined (and less) resources, so they had their stuff in mind while observing the combat situation (at least after the new rules were learned). And they started to organize their resources better (power cards, etc.).
In 5e I didn't run into time troubles so far, because the resource management got stuck and they still have less but more defining options generally to choose from and since they began to remember them (or have them handy to re-read it), while they're trained to think about their next turn during the turn of the others. Especially since there are less hp to drop and more hits overall, the entire combat time shorted immensely.
I like the 'Ready, Dodge, Go' idea and might implement it as well, but I'd consider to ask your players to actually organize their usable features. My sorcerer scanned the pages of the PHB with his known spells, cut the specific spells out of the scans into another document, print, everything ready. If he'd prepare spells, I'm sure he would cut the printout into 'cards' and would have his prepared spells on his table to signify which of his spells are available.
Other ways are lists with short descriptions, etc. If the players actually have at they hands what they can do, they're faster at deciding what they will do. And personally I think they become even more creative, since they know the limits of rules better and don't try to search for any trait/spell/feature which might come in handy but is not existent.
And definitely: Suggest that they pay more mind into the combat and maybe have an initiate order list for the players around (mine is managed by a player, btw), so they know when their turn is.
From your side: Hand out some tasks to the players, that keeps their mind more into combat (like someone who makes conditions visible to the miniatures by laying tokens; someone who manages the initiative order; someone who is especially skilled at searching for special rules, etc.) and your own time management will improve as well.
TotM is much faster ime and all you really need. We recently did 2 decent fights and exploration in an hour. In 4e (which we played for 3 years, good game, although I prefer 13Age), that would have taken us 3 hrs. Just remove the grid for a few sessions and see how you fare. That is my suggestion. The speed of 5e combat is the major winner for me, it gives us back the time to do other things besides combat.
Also, morale rules are coming in DMG apparently, so that should shorten fights further.
Thanks for all the suggestions so far everyone.
Kentus wrote:
Ansbach wrote:
Ironically, in my organized play, I haven't noticed 5ed combat running any faster than 4ed. It's like so many factors are always being adjudicated, given the flexibility of the rules; as well as, looking up spells. It has lead to a lot of side-discussions about movies and stuff during all the adjudicating and reading of spells, and it spills over. I write my spells on index cards with color strips. They look like 4ed power blocks (my dm sneers at me because she despises 4ed). Its a mature group too (albeit, I've found every group I've played with talks WAY too much about movies).
BW0222, I totally respect your opinion to disagree with me, but as a side note I know for a fact that #1-#4 all speed up combat at my table from previous experience, which is why I am considering them in the first place and looking for more suggestions. 
Your experience must be different at your table. It's some of their other drawbacks, mainly of #2 and #4, that I'm not crazy about.
I think your suggestions are good advice, especially about narrating combat when it's not interesting instead of playing it out to the last die roll I have found that you also have to be careful that your players don't feel cheated out of not getting to finish the combat, however.
Interestingly, having creatures surrender or flee is always a good suggestion, but personally I do it for veirsimilitude - not to speed up combat. I didn't really explain this before, but my goal of speeding up combat is to move on to the next encounter, not just to get the combat officially over with. So in that frame of reference, monsters surrendering or fleeing often slow things down instead of speeding them up. While technically the combat is over, often having a bad guy surrender leads to several extra minutes of dealing with this new circumstance when if he had fought to the death he might have died the next round.
MykeSchultz wrote:
I find using a visible Initiative tracker helps speed up combat by showing upcoming turns to start planing actions in advance...
BW0222 wrote:
Here is what i do combat runs generally more smoothly
1) 6 Second Rule- You have 6 seconds to declare your intent for the turn and tell me what you are going to do. Im not going to cut you off if you run over that but if your turn comes around and you dont know or just keep saying "errr... ummm.... ill... maybe" you are delayed for 1 turn.
2) There is no such thing as out of character. if you ask someone to do something at the game table, all the monsters can hear you and will react accordingly. Between this rule and number 1 it cuts out a ton of the "planning phase" of each turn where your players turn into sun tzu or master chess players.
3) Battlemaps, no thanks. Minds eye theater cuts back on the chess player syndrom but is sometimes necessary to facilitate larger battles. So YES to your idea, smaller battles should be done entirely minds eye while larger battles use minis. The grid itself is still optional as you can say that the battlemap doesnt accurately represent distances just to get an idea of who is where. Using minds eye will also promote creative ideas using the environment
4) Minions are not necessary- You can use lower CR monsters who will still have a chance to hit and will go down in 1 hit anyway. But wont go down to a single hit point of damage, so they need to at least make the hit compitent.
5) Have someone else keep track of initiative- this speeds things up on your end.
6) Rulespeak, irrelevant things - If you find a way to get players to stop let me know. Sometimes mine will break out youtube videos or talk about what they will do in 5 levels it makes me want to throw the book at them.
I think combat speed is at a good pace as is, at least for my group who have complete novices rubbing elbows with players who has been doing rpg's 20+ years And then there's me, who normally run games as if they are action movies.
Describing the action, holdin back a bit on blood and gore as our youngest player is 13, I like to keep the characters on their toes. Combat isn't all though. If you manage to run the rest of the session without losing the players attention, you're doing good.
I do however like the "ready, action, go" suggested above here somewhere, and intend to try that tonight.
What I would never do is suggested in the post above this. I would never say that whatever is said around the table, at any time, is purely in-character. Sometimes people need to ask a question, or make sure what they think about attempting to do is an option at all. I'm not saying it might not work for others, but personally I'll keep that for Paranoia XP, where the Computer (Everybody's best Friend!!) might overhear your treasonous plots, you filthy, mutant son of... er. Yes!
Ocule wrote: