Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shintashi Aug 04, 2015 9:50:57	So our campaign has an Abjurist who wants to get into Spell Research. He likes the Mage Armor spell, but wants to make one that is higher level than 1st, probably an Improved Mage Armor, and an Archmage Armor spell. A 1st level spell provides a +3 AC for 8 hours. What should I look at for guidelines for 2nd through 9th level spells? I understand there is bounded accuracy, but i have very little to go on for reference, most of the abjurist spells are all or nothing, or 'resistance', and actually, most abjuration spells cannot be cast by abjurists (similar problem with Summoners), so we would gladly welcome more Abjuration spells for wizards.
#2 JodyJohnson Aug 04, 2015 12:31:28	I'd go 1 AC higher per 3 spell levels, AC 14+Dex as 4th (Improved Mage Armor), AC 15+Dex as 7th level spell (Greater Mage Armor).   The Robe of the Archmage grants AC 15+Dex.   Or maybe just do them as 3rd and 5th (max) given the limited number of higher level slots.
#3 shintashi Aug 04, 2015 14:00:03	Many different thoughts and power scales to look at   The whole thing got me thinking about all sorts of mechanics from different games, and ideas. Like a Magical Power Armor with a similar scale to stomping around in True Polymorph form. I thought over-writing armor is also a possibility.   Natural AC from the DMG A monster that doesn't wear armor might have natur2 armor, in which case it has an AC equal to 10 +its Dexterity modifier+ its natural armor bonus. A mons£ with a thick hide generally has a natural armor bonu of +1 to +3. The bonus can be higher if the creature is exceptionally well armored. A gorgon, for example. is covered in steely plates and has a natural armor bonus of+9.   Dex assumptions mean you have to consider the AC of the character to likely include +5, and Mage spells usually include Shield, so when someone says "Robes of the Archmagi" what they really mean is AC 25, possibly AC 26. (Dex 20+5, Robe AC 15, Ring of Protection +1, Shield Spell +5). Using the Ioun Stone of Reserve pretty much secures the functionality of the Shield spell AC modifier for most fights that wizards can expect to get into, so the AC of 25-26 with that combo isn't really temporary.   But over writing someone's AC, like Polymorph or a Vehicle is a different approach. That way, you never count the Dex bonus and magic items are usually ignored. Barkskin overwrites AC to 16, regardless of dexterity or other items, so while it's a +6 from a level 2 spell, it's also got no interaction with other spells.   Polymorph to a White Dragon at 20th level (9th level true polymorph), and your AC is overwritten to 20, you gain 333 hit points, and cold immunity. Normally the 20th level wizard has about 200 less hit points, and is not immune to cold (brass dragon gives the fire option but fewer bonus hp), so following that logic, the idea of a 9th level Power Armor effect is possible, but mechanically, what is the peak Armor we should be looking at?   The gorgon example above in theory produces a max of 24, 19 + Dex.   Regular Polymorph (4th level spell or Druid power) and Beast options are limited to AC 14-15 counting things like direwolves and Dinosaurs.   Min AC chain for a Barbarian is probably something like 15+dex mod with a shield, and Monk is 13+dex with no shield option. Max without epic stats is 19+dex with shield for barbarian, and 15+dex for monk (assuming the barbarian took the con to 20, then took the +4 bonus to 24 con, which is a +7 bonus, totalling 10+7+Dex +2 from a shield). Absolute max with epic stats is 20+dex for a monk and 22+dex for a barbarian, assuming 30 in Wisdom or Constitution, which is about 355,000 xp + 150,000 Boon xp.  Counting Dex, max AC with epic stats for monk would be AC 30, AC 36 using reaction based feat to add against one attack, while barbarian with +3 shield and epic 30s is looking at AC 35.   All this tells me is the AC granted by a 1 hour 9th level spell shouldn't exceed 20 + Dex, and then i have to consider the differences in duration.   Barksin is twice as high level, granting twice the AC bonus, but then shuts down dex and items, and also cuts the time from 8 hours to 1 hour. So if i look at it, its got +3 pros, -3 cons.   If I look at Mage Armor as a Proficiency Modifier +1, Then it might look something like this, for 8 hour duration magic armors:   AC. . .Level. . .Spell Level +3. . . 1st. . .. . . 1st +4. . . 5th. . . . . .3rd +5. . ..9th. . . . . .5th +6. . ..13th. . . . .7th +7. . ..17th. . . . .9th   Another possibility is a Magical Vestments Spell, which would be a Defensive version of Magic Weapon, adding +1,2, or 3 to a piece of worn armor or shield. Following the logic, magic weapon is 2nd level, and has +2 at 4th, and +3 at 6th. Jumping it up we could say such an enchantment would be 3rd or 5th level, then the jumps would be +2 at 5th/7th and the +3 at 7th/9th.   Robes of the Archmage would normally be a good guideline, except it has other special effects, like advantage of saves and +2 to your spellcasting DC.   The Apparatus of Kwalish is closer to my Polymorph example, granting +200 hit points and 20 AC. (20d6+20 hp from Con was the estimate I used)   So this is what I think, if the Archmage Armor spell grants additional special defenses, then AC 15 is appropriate, if the only thing it does is grants AC, then I'm guessing 16+ is possible, but the bonus has to be equal or less than the spell level.   So for example, what if the 5th level spell, Improved Mage Armor, were AC 15+Dex, and was one of the many spells associated with constructing the Archmage Robes, then something like a 9th level version might be AC 17+Dex, or operate completely differently, like an improved version of False Life/Armor of Agathys/Arcane Ward, or Gives the Caster AC 15+Dex plus 1-3 defenses, like resistance to physical damage, or a saving throw bonus vs. something or other?