Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 2ndEditionPwns Aug 19, 2014 23:42:39	I've been running my players through the starter set module with the pregen characters and everyone is loving it.  Lost Mine is easily the best published module from WotC that I've encountered, as awesome as Queen of the Spiders was back in the day for me and my group.   After reading the module I immediately pre-ordered the next two adventure releases.   The first of which, Hoard of the Dragon Queen, arrived today.  And... wtf.  Why on earth are these modules not connected? It's not like I have a MM and a DMG to go make my own adventure up yet. Maybe I'm crazy for assuming the starter set was a lead in to the main storyline but it's not like the product pipeline is flush with releases here.   The geography is at least marginally close but the design and the tone of the two are pretty disconnected.  LMoP made fantastic use of backgrounds with the pregen characters.  Their motivations were varied and left a great deal to work with for the DM to expand on in most cases.  They gave characters alternate perspectives on several areas of the adventure and in some cases to great depth.  Great tie-ins to existing NPC's and a stake in the development of the area overall.  By contrast HotDQ has a one page list of pretty shallow hooks to get characters to go to the starting town and that's it.  Leave your individual motivations at the town gates I guess.   Quests are another aspect featured heavily in LMoP that were completely absent in HotDQ.  I understand you have multiple projects running concurrently and being produced by different authors and part of the appeal of D&D is there are tons of ways to play it.  Quests resonated with me as a DM and with my players; not going to be that way for every group for certain.  However, they do create a certain kind of narrative style to the overall story and how the adventure plays out and it's a style that is completely different from how HotDQ will play.     It's not something that allows for much of a smooth transition between the two and it makes me wonder if Rise of Tiamat is going to be another complete departure in style.  The foolishness in all of this is your mini-adventure has these great hooks and long term character goals and then stops dead at level 5 and goes nowhere while the big epic adventure is the complete opposite.    It's not easy being a fan of D&D, and I keep spending money hoping it buys you enough time to figure it out.  So far this edition is a giant leap in the right direction, but with a few big steps backward at every gain.   I would love to hear any official or community ideas on transitioning between the two modules without the need for a full level 1 reset and abandoning the original characters.  As I familiarize myself with the finer points of HotDQ I'll post my plans as well.
#2 ArkPanda Aug 20, 2014 7:57:31	If you put them where they are supposed to be on the map, they are about 700 miles apart (from near Neverwinter to near Iriaebor).  That's a long intermission or several adventures to get from point A to point B.
#3 Daganev Aug 20, 2014 9:47:19	Its recommended that you start HotDQ at episode 5 in waterdeep if you ran lost mines. Also the simple plot hooks are deeper than they first look. You can really play them up.
(Reply to #3) zoroaster99	I don't want to waste the first half of the adventure by starting at episode 5, and even though I had told my players the Lost Mine of Phandelver was supposed to be just an intro with the Basic Rules, and we'd start over with new characters at level 1 once the PHB came out, nevertheless when the time came they rebelled.  Some wanted to create new characters based on the PHB expanded options. But others had grown attached to their Basic Rules characters and don't want to be nerfed down to level 1 again or start a new character.  So I faced a dilema.   This is what I'm going to try.  I've started playing up the druid Reidoth.  He has been making visits to Phandalin and has recruited the rogue and the new druid character in the party to the Emerald Enclave.  He has been telling them about how dangerous the ruins of Thundertree are to keep them from venturing there too soon, and has been telling them he is spying with Wild Shape on a dragon that lairs there and some humans that seem to be allied with it (the Cultists).  He has already asked them that, when they accomplish their immediate goal of attacking the Black Spider in the Mine of Phandelver, to please go on a quest for him.   He wants them to go to Neverwinter, where the wizard Acolyte of Oghma has contacts with the House of Knowledge, and seek transport to Candlekeep via a teleportation cirlce that connects the temple of Oghma in Neverwinter and the temple of Oghma in Candlekeep.  In Candlekeep they are too seek out Leosin, a monk to specializes his research on dragons and dragon cults.   If they choose to take on that quest, they will learn that Leosin has confided in another scholar, and left some personal notes, which show he thinks the Cult of the Dragon is on the move and intends to strike Greenest.  Leosin has left for Greenest but plans to intercept the Cult army rather than warning the town.   The scholar Leosin confided in promised to keep this secret, but his concience is killing him because he fears for the people of Greenest.  He will beg the heroes to go warn Greenest, but if the heroes choose to go there, they will find the town already in the process of being attacked.   If the players choose not to take up these quests, then I'll instead have the cult attack Phandalin and the Mine of Phandelver instead later to plunder the treasures there for the Hoard of Tiamat.
(Reply to #4) Danny_Montanny	zoroaster99 wrote:
#6 mykesfree Aug 20, 2014 14:42:57	In LMoP the Cult of the Dragon is already in the adventure.  You can always have the Cult sucecced in their treaty with the Green Dragon attack Phandelin in a smilar way that Greenest is attacked in HotDQ.  The great thing about 5e and bounded accuracy is that monsters at every level are always a threat for much longer than in previous editions.  Also in your modified game have the Cult move south instead of north towards Waterdeep.
#7 Daganev Aug 21, 2014 0:33:15	You can start at episode 4 then if you are worried about leaving too much out of the adventure. Episodes 1 2 and 3 serve no purpose other than introducing the party to characters, showing you three different ways to play D&D and to level up the chars. I plan to run all three episodes in one or two 2 hour sessions.
#8 Jharii Aug 21, 2014 10:09:20	I know it's too late for those who have already went through Lost Mine, but I plan on running both Lost Mine and Hoard concurrently.  I haven't exactly figured how to tie them in together yet, but the players will have more options available to them.  I will be cutting back on the XP rewards a bit so they can experience everything at the appropriate level.
#9 gregsc Aug 22, 2014 23:03:47	Is anyone else disturbed by the acronym HotDQ?
#10 Xuub Aug 24, 2014 13:32:58	The way that I am linking the two modules is via the druid in Thundertree. In addition to other things, he's studying the dragon cult and seeks a "tome" of info in Venomfang's treasure.  Then, in the Horde of the Dragon Queen, I'm replacing the "Monk" that has taken captive in the cultist camp with the druid.  After the party runs Venomfang out of town, the druid gets the "info" he needs and goes to follow up in "Greenest".  He spends some time in town before being taking captive....   I have 5 players and I'm passing out XP slowly so that they'll be lvl 3 at the end of the starter adventure.  With 5 they've had no problem being lower level for the harder fights.
#11 THEMNGMNT Aug 24, 2014 23:01:48	My suggestion is similar to that of several other posters. Run LMoP as written. Then modify HotDQ.   Here's how I suggest you do it: In Chapter 1, replace Greenest with Phandalin. You should be able to dial up the potency of the monsters without too much effort thanks to bounded accuracy. Then combine Chapters 2 and 3 into one, since both take place at the same adventure location. You can dispense with Chapters 4 and 5, since they're simply travelogues that get  the players to Castle Naerytar. I would then suggest you play either Chapter 6 or Chapter 7. Both have great locations, but they fill essentially the same story purpose--to get the players to the Castle in the Clouds. So either chapter should make an easy transition to Chapter 8.    If I was to do this, I would actually go a level deeper. I don't much care for the dragon hatchery in Chapter 3. I would probably replace it with Castle Naerytar, which is a great location, and sensible launching point for raids across the North. From there, I would have clues point players to Waterdeep. After some investigation in Waterdeep, they would be directed to the Hunting Lodge of a corrupt noble in league with the Cult. Then climax with the Castle in the Clouds.   In any case, I think HotDQ needs some trimming as it basically leads the players from one location to another to another. Gets old fast, in my opinion. Connecting it to LMoP solves some of those issues.