Yes, I have started on the 5e monster analysis/monster building articles already :-)
I'm basically going to replicate my D&D 5e Monsters: Master Index here...
This top post will be kept up to date. I'll also post to this thread as new installments are posted on my blog.
Feel free to discuss, as questions, etc on here and I'll do my best to respond as appropriate!
Sweet, I've been looking forward to this. Break a leg!
Thanks @iserith !
Just posted Part 1: Starter Set Monsters
As always I welcome all constructive feedback, thoughts and discussion!
Just seeing this makes me so very happy.
Seems Mike Mealrs likes what is developing here.
By now, the first thing I noticed from the starter set monsters is that hit dice seem to be entirely linked to size (d4 for Tiny, d6 for Small, d8 for Medium, d10 for Large). It sure is easier than having hit dice based on the creature type ("Constructs have d8. No, wait, I'm sure it's d10. Yeah, but fey have d6. Wait what? Why?")
Just posted Part 2: Construction: Before Building...
edwin_su wrote:
Nice! Looking forward to reading the whole series... 
Thanks @Akeisha!
I've had a bit of feedback on Reddit... Yeah 
I know what Reddit is like... remind me to tell you about it sometime.
But I has got me thinking.
Would folks rather see more frequent installments that are smaller?
Or longer, more detailed installments that cover more, but are further apart??
My personal take is to do it at your leisure - I have no preference and am just grateful.
But given the lack of a Monster Manual and only the monsters of the Starter Set to go on, there is a real clamor on the forums for something DMs can use to build monsters for their games. So whatever you can provide to get that going will likely be very well-received in the short term.
I agree with Iserith; take as long as you need to, and don't push yourself too hard - if you need a break or recovery time, we can wait. We can always argue with each other over the usual stuff while you rest and double check your figures.
Thanks for the thoughts gang!
I'll admit I'm pushing myself a little bit to get the posts out there, but that's not a problem - if R/L forces me to slow down I will.
I just want people to have something useful. And I figured most folks would appreciate smaller, more frequent posts.
But if I was wrong about that I'll correct it 
Personally, I think doing them at a rate that is good for you is fine. 
Great material
Is there third installment coming out soon? Can you add some actual information to starts doing stats ourselves?
Thanks folks! OK I may compromise between the two extreemes and try to conver one or two sections in a post. That'll be like 2 posts a week but hopefully each is a self-contained and cohesive peice.
Alpizarai wrote:
I love it. I'm not too much into math and some times I skip some sections since I have a caveman brain n_nU But it is deffinitely helping for my adventures :D
Good stuff. I'm big into the math. Yes monsters HD type is off of size. I had the play test packets math down pretty good. I can wait in a few weeks when the PHB releases and I get to see some monsters on the PDF. The to hit factor was easy in the play test packets. The big one is damage though most I would assume would be based off CR. The play test was based off of level and scaled. But can't wait to see more of your writing.
Great blog. As with a great many other DM's the secret to creating a balanced creature is always something that I wish to have in the back pocket. After all the ability to add in your own creatures into your home brew adventures greaty enhances the gaming experiance for all. Keep up the good work, however as always, RL takes a priority and take your time if needed. I will be following your updates with interest
Aldath wrote:
This was another one of the threads I missed from before. Glad to see you're back at it!
I'm excited for this as well. I've noticed that monster proficiency bonus is so far linked to (but not definitely determined by) hit dice count. Monsters with less than 10 seem to have a +2, while monsters with greater than 10 seem to have +3. (Well... monsters up to 9 HD have +2... the only monster higher was the Dragon, with 16... and it had a +3).
I hereby follow this thread so I can learn from your soul!
Muahahaha!
ittyan wrote:
PS. If you are interested in what this delay involves you might want to have a peek at my Profiling Class Damage & Hitpoint Curves... post in the Player Help forum...
Sweet. Looking forward to your analysis. I've bookmarked your blog and have been checking it daily for your third post. Highly anticipated as I really enjoyed your previous breakdown. I'll be relying on your work fairly extensively to create new monsters and villians while I await the MM and DMG.
Thanks @DM_HEEGZ!
I've just posted Part 3: Construction: CR & Size and hope folks find it a useful start!
Give me a few days to get Ability Scores & HP all typed up and I'll post that too.
Thanks!
As usual, a good read. However, I must say that I expected proficiency to follow hit dice progression, not CR rating. However, since the ogre has 7 hd, this would mean a total bonus of +7 on his attacks, but he has +6. So you're right! Not that much of a change, actually, but still, I have to check the beasties I made for Gamma Five now. I'll probably have to lower their "to hits" a bit!
Thank you Surf for taking up the task again.
I missed this thread from the "next" forum.
Great stuff as before!
This has been very useful to me so far in creating a random monster generator. I can only assume each new entry will help me even more.
OK just posted Part 4: Construction: Ability Scores & HP. Enjoy!
Emanuele_Galletto wrote:
Next post is up!
I hope you enjoy Part 5: Construction: AC & Other Attributes!
Great blog.
Sweet. I've been looking forward to this.
By the way, here are more 5e monsters, if you didn't grab them already.
http://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/HoardDragonQueen_Supplement1_PF.pdf
Fantasyfilmsman wrote:
A quick note. With sample size swelling from 33 monsters to 209 in just over a week the next article will be a quick stocktake and review.
Hopefully it won't hold the scheduled articles up by more than a few days.
I would prefer a quick overview before your in depth analysis. Also, a work in progress template for designing monsters would be great if you can throw something together quickly before resuming your scheduled posts.
DM_HEEGZ wrote:
OK next post Interlude: A Bunch Of Monsters! is up.
Apologies for the lateness - I spent a couple days extra on HP and then got an aweful cold :-( Been quite ill with it!
Part 6: Construction: Traits & Spellcasting is up!
Working my butt off to get Damage done now...
OK peoples, Part 7: Construction: Damage is now up!
Sweet - I got the scoop here instead of rpg.net? You're late!
Great work as always Surf!
Ansbach wrote:
surf13 wrote:
DM_HEEGZ wrote:
A good read as usual. In addition to your analysis, I've really enjoyed watching the devopment of your pyromancer. The majority of my creations tend to be NPCs and not monsters. I tend to use a template format and beg/borrow/steal from PC classes in order to slap something together quickly stat-wise. I really like the stat blocks in 5e and what appears to be a fairly simple and intuitive design process. Finally, I think special abilities (such as pack tactics, etc.) really help distinguish different creatures. I'm thinking about making a table of the various abilities, plus stealing from the Next playtest documents for use with new creatures. I'm sure the MM will yield more inspiration as well. Anyways, have a great vacation.
surf13 wrote:
DM_HEEGZ wrote:
... I see that low, low point inbetween level 10 and 15 on the Monster Regular Damage scatter, and instantly I know; it's the poor Vampire. I really wish they had decided to make the bulk of Vampires' damage come from the Vampire itself, not a group of easily killed minions.
Good stuff, thanks for all your work on this. I look forward to future updates when you get back.
If I might put in a request for a future blog post, it would be interesting and helpful to have a segment done on scaling existing mobs up or down in CR and what effect that should apply to various stats.
Redblue200 wrote:
In my prior blogging experience, maybe 5% of my audience would comment. Usually regulars will comment with the occasional visitor, but most people don't bother to comment on a blog I've found.
Cross posting on related blogs resulted in the biggest increase in comments on my previous blogs. I'm not sure what niches exist for gaming blogs, in order to network and leverage yourself better.
I would comment on your blog but I no longer blog myself, and it defeats the networking aspect of it all. Maybe I'll start though.
Thanks for sharing your experiences @DM_HEEGZ !
So now that the D&D DM's Basic rules are out (with all the monsters and monster talk it contains), how does this affect your analysis?
The_Stray wrote:
Hi Surf great work and a fun read. Since you are the monster master, you might be ale to answer my question. In 5e it looks like besides the vampire, no other monster receives any penalties or extra damage from radiant damage. With that knowledge what is the point of radiant damage. In 4e and in other editions radiant damage had repercussions for the undead. My guess it is probably the least resisted damage type and that helps a bit, but I wanted to take my question to the monster master.
Thanks, Myke
On my part, I will be tweaking monsters after I have had more opportunity to use them. I will be making much heavier use of damage resistances, immunities, and vulnerabilities for creatures. For example, radiant damage dealing double to undead, and necrotic damage healing them. For starters though, I am running everything as published before making any changes. This will give me a good feel for power balance before I start tweaking things.
mykesfree wrote:
surf13 wrote:
Yep @Caliburn101 that's a good point!
Part 8: Construction: Actions is now up for your monster crunching pleasure...
nice, off to read it now
Just posted Part 9: Construction: Attack Bonus!
surf13 wrote:
Nice reads, both of them. I'm really looking forward to your next post about CR. Its the most confusing thing for me so far in 5e.
Thank you again for doing this, very insightful and I look forward to reading further installments.
I would have to rank this as one of the most important projects on 5e in general.
OK CR was harder to nail than anticipated but Part 10: Construction: Evaluating CR has now been posted.
Now to wait for my DMG to arrive so that I can see how the results align!
When does your DMG arrive? I have mine already and if you want a few specific things I can look them up quickly if yours will take a while.
DM_HEEGZ wrote:
Yours is much more in depth than the one in the DMG. Absolutely love it.
Here's the basics of how their's works though:
They have that you adjust HP, AC, Attack and Damage of the monsters given by the traits it has.
Then you compare HP and Damage to a table which gives the standard for each CR to determine its initial CR.
Then you compare the AC and Attack to standard values on the same table, and for every two points of AC or Attack difference, you increase/decrease its offensive or defensive CR by one point.
Then you take the average of the two.
Hmm, the NPC stuff doesn't look very useful. The monster creation stuff is 11 pages long.
[edit]
that is to say, it is not useful for data analysis. the npc fluff building is great!
Okay, so here goes with a summary of how it works. I'll just go by the subheadings to give you a general idea:
Creating a Monster
Modifying a Monster
Switching Weapons
Adding a Special Trait
Creating Quick Monster Stats
*this has a table that would probably be the most helpful thing for your analysis, and referenced below*
Step 1. Expected CR
Step 2. Basic Statistics
Step 3. Adjust Statistics
Step 4. Final CR
-Defensive CR
-Offensive CR
-Average CR
-Xp by CR
Creating a Monster Stat Block
Step 1. Name
Step 2. Size
Step 3. Type
Step 4. Alignment
Step 5. Ability Scores and Modifiers
Step 6. Expected CR
Step 7. Armor Class
-use the table
-determine appropriate AC
Step 8. Hit Points
-use the table
-assign hit dice
-hit dice by size
Step 9. Damage Vulnerabilities, Resistances, and Immunities
-effecive hit points
Step 10. Attack Bonuses
-use the table
-calculate AB
Step 11. Damage
-use the table
-base the damage on the weapon
-overall damage output
Step 12. Save DCs
-use the table
-calculate DCs
Step 13. Special Traits, Actions, and Reactions
-innate spellcasting and spellcasting
Step 14. Speed
-flying monster
Step 15. Saving Throw Bonuses
Step 16. FInal CR
Step 17. Skill Bonuses
Step 18. Condition Immunities
Step 19. Senses
-passive perception score
Step 20. Languages
-telepathy
NPC Stat Blocks
Creating NPCs from Scratch
Monsters with Classes
And that is about it. There are several tables taking up about 3 of the 11 pages. Also, there are NPC guidelines in a previous chapter that dont have crunchy bits, more like char gen. Hopefully this will give you an idea of the workflow they present in the DMG.
Hey Surf, I've really enjoyed this series, as well as the previous one for D&DN. I've made about a dozen monsters using the guidelines in the DMG, and I'm going to evaluate their CRs using your equations to see how it matches up.
*Edit*
Reaver Spineback
Okay, here is the stat block for one of the monsters I've made for a campaign that I'm about to kick off. It is a a fish-like humanoid monster that has numerous spines growing out of its back, including three larger ones it can manually dislodge and throw like javelins. I've counted the Dominated Mind special trait as a resistance for the purposes of determining CR, and will do so for any other monster with the trait.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xWa7ha6HeEuKOXcGMtJqmZQbOo7UotaRPE3XLUO-ODI/edit?usp=sharing
Using the DMG guidelines, it ends up with a CR of 1, though I anticipate it to be a tough CR 1 due primarily to its multiattacks. Using Surf's equations, it ends up with a Challenge Index of 31.6, putting it right at the upper end of CR 1. Both approaches seem reasonable thus far.
Reaver Hulk
This monster is from the same "set" as the spineback above. It's meant to be slightly more tanky, though it is limitied by its complete lack of ranged attacks. Like all of the reaver creatures I've created, it has at the very least resistance to poison damage. The hulk (as well as a number of other reavers) has a thick mucus layer covering its body which serves to neutralize some acid that it contacts, thus providing resistance to acid damage.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11qB1yLaJVv4ka-0uycXXnbqGpn885g_nTL_r18wJTiw/edit?usp=sharing
Using the DMG, this monster stats out as a CR 3 beastie. Using Surf's work, it also ends up as CR 3, with a Challenge Index of 54.6. Note that I added 2 to the damage output of the hulk due to the Aggressive trait for both CR determinations. Again, both approaches seems to be working just fine.
Thanks for the feedback and sharing folks!
Thanks @Devilbass for putting it through it's paces and doing some comparisons of both methods. I look forward to hearing about nay other comparisons you do.
And a big thank you to @DM_HEEGZ for the DMG summary! I think the biggest differnce is the explicit inclusion of saves in the DMG, somethign I haven't quite got right in my own models yet.
The series' summary table should be up in the next couple of days.
I bought the 5e monster manual already, but want 5e like stats for some monsters not in the book. Is there a conversion to go from AD&D 2nd edition or 4th edition to 5e? I'm looking at RAGE DRAKE just off the top of my head.
thanks
*stretches*
Hey I remember this thread! So does anyone think there are any 5e monster numbers left to crunch??
Not really, considering the DMG has guidelines for making monsters and calculating CR. I've been looking at calculating PCs CR, just to have an idea of what determines easy, medium, hard, and deadly threats. The PCs have vastly higher offenses than defenses, which then shows why monsters have such higher HP than damage. I'd prefer these be normalized myself.
Part 11: Construction Consolidation posted...