Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ostyf Aug 17, 2014 20:13:00	Spoilers, sort of?   So I am really struggling to start the Hoard of the Dragon Queen (HOTDQ) book with my group.  We are a session or two away from completing the Starter Box but no one was thrilled about rolling back down in levels for a new story.  I'm not really impressed with the disconnect with the Starter Box and HOTDQ.  But I can figure it out... or can I?   So I thought I would roll everyone down to Level 3, at least balance it a little, not be so harsh to my group, and beef up the encounters in the first few chapers of the HOTDQ.  So I thought Id start by looking at the XP budget for the first chapter, then use the DM guide just posted online. http://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/DMDnDBasicRules_v0.1_PrinterFriendly.pdf Aside from the horific math error on Page 57 where all this is discussed, one issue keeps coming up that keeps stumbling me up is the Encounter Multiplier table on page 57.  If I use it as described I end up with encounters in Chapter 1 ranging from 250 to 2,100 xp.  Thats a big range for what should be all level 1 party encounters.  I can give breakdown examples, but Ill give one just to save time.   Chapter 1 HOTDQ Encounter called "Santuary" There are 3 mob groups Group A  = 1 Dragonclaw, 2 cultists, 6 kobolds Group A = 200 + (2x25) + (6x25) = 375 xp, then multiply by 2.5 for group of 8 mobs = 375 x 2.5 = 938 xp   Group B = 3 cultists, 10 kobolds, 2 Ambush drakes Group B = (3x25) + (10x25) + (2x100) = 525 xp, then multiply by 4 for a group of 15 or more = 525 x 4 = 2,100 xp.   According to page 57 of the DM mini-guide, Level 1 PCs, deadly encounter for 5 players is = 500 exp   Are we supposed to ignore these "minion" type mobs when applying the encounter multipliers?  My take is no, because if they got surprise or high initiative on a party, itll be death by a thousand cuts.   Anyone else struggling to make this transition?  Im just about to rewrite every fight in the first three chapters otherwise, but running out of time to prep that much... I was looking forward to little prep, but instead I have to reformulate dozens of encounters to challange my players and print stat blocks from 2 different sources.  (Why the hell cant ambush drakes and Dragonclaws also be in the damn supplimental materials).
#2 Shogun_Assassin Aug 18, 2014 10:25:53	that is a shame that they arnt connected. I havnt seen the dragon queen book yet but theres a few things i would do.   I dont think i would level down any characters, what a bummer! i would possibly up the level of the encounters (just by adding one or two more monsters and skimp on the xp) or even let the advanturers blow through the first couple and make them feel really heroic giving desciptions of death scenes and focus on plot rather then the combat its self. Also I'm not the DM that does all the math and makes sure every encounter is perfectly matched(so it might not work for you). Another idea would be some how most of there good adventuring gear goes missing mid dungeon and they have to use there "B" gear and all because a pixie/imp/fairy wants there attention (possibly becomes a familar) or something. JUst a few ideas.. good luck!
(Reply to #2) Ostyf	Shogun_Assassin wrote:
#4 Shogun_Assassin Aug 18, 2014 12:33:52	you could always TPK and reroll new chars :D!
#5 zoroaster99 Aug 18, 2014 13:28:44	Funny, I just posted a similar request for help in another thread.  Here is what I'm planning to do.  My characters are still level 3.  They are about to pass to level 4 and about to head into the Mine itself.  Instead of leveling them up, I'm going to keep them at level 3 for the whole rest of the adventure, which is probably just one more session (I might even cut some encounters from the mine to make sure).  I will keep them level 3 going into Hoard, and not pass them to fourth until they complete the first two chapters of Hoard, at least.  Then will keep them at  4th until they are reach the point where they should pass to level 5 according to the guidelines in Hoard.   For the actual transition, the druid Reidoth has actually come to Phandalin to talk to the adventurers and warned them that there is a dragon in Thundertree as well as humans in league with it.  The party has not taken on the dragon and don't plan to at this level.  So the druid will ask them to go to see his friend, Leosin (sp?), a Berduskan monk who has been researching dragons and dragon cults in Candlekeep, to learn what they can about this dangerous threat of a dragon working with human allies.   If the players choose to go to Candlekeep, they can use the book on alchemy they took from Glasstaff's lab to gain access, or the druid will give them a book on fauna and flora of the Sword Coast, since a book is the price of admission to Candlekeep.  The wizard in the party, who is using the pregen background of acolyte of Oghma, has contacts in Neverwinter who will use a teleportation circle to get them to Candlekeep.  Once there they will have the opportunity to learn that the monk has been researching the Cult of the Dragon (they'll mostly learn about the old Cult and their twisted interpretation of prophesy that led them to create dracoliches)>  They will also find that the monk recently found in his studies of intercepted messages and other clues that the Cult seems to be planning an attack on Greenest and that rather than warn the town, the monk plans to go investigate and infiltrate the Cult, so he can learn more about their deeper purposes.   The heroes will have the chance to speed to Greenest to warn or help the town ready a defense, but will find it already under assault, as per the first chapter in Hoard.
#6 Ostyf Aug 18, 2014 13:41:19	My real issue is understanding the XP multiplier mechanic from the mini-DM guide posted online.  If I have to scale these fights up to incorporate higher level PCs then these groups of mobs need to be challanging.  A majority of the fights in the first chapter of HOTDQ (gosh that looks like hotdog) are large large wandering packs of Kobolds/cultist/acolytes.  All of them should have XP multipliers associated with them due to the volume of mobs.  According to my math above, these encounters are much higher than a level 1 encounter.  Im just trying to scale accurately so things are challanging to my players but be quick about my prep time.  Its not easy being a dad, new DM, and work full time.
#7 zoroaster99 Aug 18, 2014 13:49:01	As for the actual I am planning to start by trying them just as is on the 3rd level party, but compressing the urgency so they don't have time to take short rests between the encounters.  If they start getting too worn down, I can let them take a short rest in the castle as intended in the module for first level parties.  If it goes to easy on the other hand, I will start adding a few kobolds or cultists to each encounter, or just let them get an easy win this time to move faster to the second chapter.   Chapter 2 should not involve too much combat if they are smart.   By the time we get to Chapter 3, I think they will be close enough to target level to be ok as is, and they will level to fourth level at the end of Chapter 3, if all goes well for them.
#8 Ostyf Aug 18, 2014 14:45:03	I like that approach and hope to do something similar.  Wish there was an abridged text for those that used the Starter Box.
#9 zoroaster99 Aug 19, 2014 7:59:59	I have seen some complaints on other threads that Hoard of the Dragon Queen's first chapter is too tough for 1st level characters because there are too many encounters without enough chance to rest, so I hope it turns out just fine for my players' third level party as written.
#10 Atheosis Aug 19, 2014 12:36:58	Just scale everything up.  Haven't looked at HOTDQ, but, if for instance, your party encounters a group of 4 orcs just add an ogre (or something comparable) to the mix.  If they are supposed to encounter a fledgling dragon, make it a bit older instead.  It's not at all difficult, especially with 5th edition where lower level monsters can still be threatening.  What I wouldn't do is roll PCs back or pause their advancement.  That is a very unfun thing to do.