Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lazurass May 14, 2015 4:45:37	So often times when players don't agree with one of my rulings, they pretty much act like this...   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w09rqkY0hbg   I try to not let it be a Debbie Downer but really, what are some tips you have have to respond to something like this...     Thank you, in advance   Laz
#2 iserith May 14, 2015 5:40:31	As DMs, we should be making rulings that are both fair and help the group achieve the goals of play, that is, everyone having a good time and creating an exciting, memorable story as a result of play. It sounds like some of your group aren't having a good time as a result of your rulings. Therefore, it might be useful to examine some of the rulings you have made to see if there is an underlying issue there that can be corrected. Dealing with player objections may just be treating the symptoms rather than the cause. So would you post some examples of rulings you've made that caused this sort of reaction?
#3 Glimjack May 14, 2015 5:59:12	A few tips to consider.   1) The DM has final say: Remind your players that your job is adjudication and as such you are required to sometimes make calls that they don't like. I started with this because it's the tacit contract that you agree to when you play and some else offers to DM. It's the most important thing.   2) Be open to feedback: DMs can get it wrong however and don't always see their own choices impartially. If your player does have a problem, tell them you'll resolve it AFTER the game. Listen to their objections and try to see it from their point of view. Show them you're willing to listen and thus prove you're trying to be fair. If they've got a point don't be afraid to change your mind.   3) Be consistent: If you're extremely tight on player actions/free hands or accomplishing stunts and generally not letting them getting away with borderline actions, make sure you rule the same way when running your NPCs/monsters. What applies to the PCs should also apply to their enemies.   4) Have fun: It's the aim of the game. If what you're ruling on is going to make a player feel special or unique or it's really cool and it's not really going to affect the outcome too much, but is slightly outside the rules. Consider letting them get away with it. Don't let the rules get in the way. Just don't open yourself up to future abuse of the ruling. If that one time that your transmuter could save the party by turning steel into wood but it's slightly outside the scope of the power, consider letting them get away with it so they feel like who their PC is can   5) Give everyone a chance to shine: Sometimes players have that one thing about their character they've taken that's important to the character but not generally useful. If you run a 95% combat campaign and one character is mainly focused on social influence, give them opportunites to show off.   6) Be upfront: When you get together at your next session, start by having a discussion. Go through the rulings you've made and any personal interpretations of more openly interpretable rules and decide with your group up front how they should be handled. Let the players have some input and decide together in advance what the ruling should be. If a player has taken an option that you've nerfed or just ruled that it works differently than the way they see it, give them an out. Let them change the feature for something else.   7) Make sure everyone is on the same page: Also during your discussion, talk to your players about what they expect from the game. If they want grueling combat encounters and a tightly run rules focused campaign, DM to that style. If they prefer a campaign where the PCs go round doing cool **** without having to worry about every single repercussion or just generally showing off their awesomeness in easy fights. Aim for that. Not everyone likes to work for their victories, and that's ok too. Sometimes players just want to do cinematic things like tumble between enemy combat's. do flips off walls and stab teir sword through two enemies at once, just because it's cool even if the rules don't allow it. If that's the kind of game they are after, try to run that game.   8) Make sure it's the group/game for you: If at the end of it all, you can't get along and the players continue to sulk and either you or them aren't having fun, then it's ok to walk away. Maybe you could try a different game system that you all prefer. Maybe one of them should have a turn DMing, Maybe you should find a different group altogether, or you find a new someone else to DM and join them as a player.
#4 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 14, 2015 6:48:35	Glimjack wrote:
#5 Ralif_Redhammer May 14, 2015 7:13:30	I’d recommend staying calm. The last time this happened to me, it was over email. I had the luxury of waiting to respond and cooling down. My wife gave me the best advice. Even though the angry player said some rather nasty things, I had to remember that they were still my friend, and that laying on with a verbal smack down, as insulted as I was feeling, would have only escalated the situation.   I totally agree with the advice on moving on examining it later. Tackling it in the heat of the moment will only bring snap decisions.
#6 Grimcleaver May 14, 2015 8:46:08	I think a lot depends on your rulings and whether your players have a point or if they're trying to bully you by throwing tantrums when they don't get their way--some folks just don't like losing or not being the smartest person in the room and so they freak out when people disagree with them. Basically I've found a short list of things that can cause player mutiny (the kind that comes from stuff you're doing). 1) Don't Railroad: Some folks make an adventure and want it to run A to B to C. If the PCs do something different it just fails and the DM starts trying to guide them back on the railroad of what to do and when. People roleplay for freedom to do what their character would do and control the shape of the stories they're in, so not being able to is frustrating. 2) No super NPCs. Often the DM has some super awesome character--or a few, that he just LOVES and lavishes all sorts of time on how cool they are, gives them a bunch of levels and custom magic gear and maybe breaks a rule or two for them to make them super awesome. The rationale is that they're there "to save the PCs if they get in trouble" or to "guide the PCs if they wander off and start doing the wrong thing". These kinds of NPCs ruin almost every game they're in and infuriate players even when DMs are sure they won't, because they reek of unfairness, the DM's pet creation that you just can't win against. If you have an NPC like this, have him get killed by a goblin while going to the bathroom. Your players will love you. 3) Frustrating levels of difficulty. You run into this a lot from DMs saying they want to run a "gritty" game, and are frustrated that D&D has become too much a "videogame" full of guaranteed victories. This isn't wrong and those kinds of games can be fun. The problem is when they turn into slaughters where the PCs are faced with armies of enemies they can't possibly defeat and big super-hard story arcs where they're trying to fight evil gods and dragons or the world will be annihilated--and while it seems clear to you five different ways they could do it, they seem daunted, spinning their wheels and close to giving up...because it's all super hard and not what they would want to be doing. But yeah, I'd say of the things that drive player's nuts that's the top three. Then again, like I said, it might just be that your players are being difficult or are trying to bully you. Can't say for sure without more of an idea of what's going on.
#7 Rya.Reisender May 14, 2015 11:50:16	I don't make rulings without consulting my players first. If something comes up, I open a discussion round. If more than 50% of the players agree with a ruling, I use that, if they don't care or equally many are pro and against something, I will decide instead.   I document every decision made and make it clear that those decisions are final.
#8 Eck May 14, 2015 13:50:11	I'm pretty sure this guy doesn't smash his beer bottle down on the ground swearing at the top of his lungs threatening to kick your ass... If he does, then stop playing with him RIGHT NOW.    I'd like more details on your situation. Give us some examples of your rulings, and specific examples of his behavior.    - Eck
#9 Barky May 14, 2015 19:40:08	I usually talk through my rulings with the players, explaining every step of the thought process. I give them a chance to rebut, too. I have it pretty easy because I have great players.
#10 Qzoo May 14, 2015 20:13:09	I let my players know that rule discrepencies that cannot be figured out quickly (i.e., 1 or 2 minutes of flipping rulebook pages max) mean that it will be researched between sessions, and that I will make an improvised ruling to keep the pace of the game moving during session.   If they want to have a lengthy discussion after session, that works for me (the DM) and the players by providing clarity for future sessions.  It might even be worthy of keeping a, "house rules and clarifications FAQ," and putting a reliable player in charge of tracking any updates and changes (because the DM has plenty of other stuff to do).   Lengthy arguements during session are a big no-no.  They are not the DM.  They do not have the right to pull the brakes on the game because they want to make a point.  NO.  Just NO.  I won't even discuss it further than to explain what I just said above.  If they are still unhappy they are free to step away from the table (although I've never had to go that far).   For hard cases, emphasize that you will discuss problems further between sessions, that they can make their arguements at length, and that you can modify your current ruling AS YOU SEE FIT.  Again, you are the DM, and you get to set the rules or even modify the rules to make something, "feel right," for your game.   On the flip side, be diplomatic.  It's important that players feel they are being treated fairly.  Give them a voice to air any concerns, whether for rules, or anything else.  If you aren't sure about something, then say so, and offer to, "try it their way," for a few sessions to exercise things and see how it works out in actual play.
#11 CCS May 14, 2015 21:23:08	Well, if they acted anywhere near that (even if my ruling was complete ****), they'd be calmly told to leave. If they did it again they'd be told to leave & not return.