| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1BeaumontSebosOct 06, 2014 16:53:42 | I have a PC that wants to be a werewolf.
I'm not entirely thrilled with the PC as Lycanthropes in the MM, so I thought I'd throw a few ideas out here and see what other ideas you guys/gals have.
First, the damage immunities seem high powered for lower level characters. I'm thinking of changing it to resistance to non-silvered and vulnerable to silvered.
I for sure don't want him to be chaotic evil, but he wants to be able to shift into werewolf form as he pleases. I'm thinking that maybe he can be his usual alignment in humanoid form, but chaotic evil when hybrid or werewolf.
Although it says they gain a +1 bonus to AC in hybrid form, I think I'm gonna throw that out if he keeps his armor on as hybrid.
I also think the PC is going to be a barbarian. I'm thinking of linking his rage to his lycanthropy. That might be interesting.
What do you think? Any other thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks |
| #2Moirdryd2Oct 06, 2014 17:40:03 | Well, firstly there is no reasonable way of starting as a Werewolf without DM permission, it only typically apens by accidentally contracting the Curse during play after encountering Werewolves. Also, note that capital C, it's a Curse, it's bad news and that's why it forces the Chaotic Evil alignment shift. Chaotic Evil would essentially make the character unplayable as part of a party, plus they'd lose control of their character every now and then. Unless you're playing in a world which alters the core MM assumptions in the write up the answer is a definite "No". If you want a shape shifting PC that's exactly what Druid is for. |
| #3BeaumontSebosOct 06, 2014 18:30:14 | They have my permisssion.
I tend to play a little loose with the rules.
Looking for some input from the community on making it work. |
| #4NoonOct 06, 2014 18:37:25 | It doesn't sound like you'd find it much fun AND it's not actually what the player was allowed to choose from.
Just say unless they have some change to it that'd change it to being fun for you, it's not one of the races/classes you offered and you don't find it fun enough to break from the offered races/classes. It's like haggling - they make a better offer or no deal. |
| #5AaronOfBarbariaOct 06, 2014 19:55:42 | My thoughts will probably run contrary to most others around here.
I see zero problem with a PC being a werewolf, unless the player is attempting to use the werewolf details in a way as to abuse the system - such as by using the knowledge that their strength score will be raised to 15 to put all their character's other abilities at greater values, and leave the strength neglected since being a werewolf will cover that.
Therefore, the only clause I would personally assign to the situation is that the player doesn't get the strength score adjustment if they start the game as a werewolf - otherwise I wouldn't adjust any of the rules presented in the monster manual. |
| #6pukunuiOct 06, 2014 20:55:34 | Guys, the OP's not saying he as a problem with the PC being a werewolf. He's saying he's not thrilled with the "PCs as Lycanthropes" sidebar in the Monster Manual, so he's looking for an alternative.
|
| #7AnsbachOct 06, 2014 20:52:27 | Just be glad they don't want to be a dragon! ;) |
| #8THEMNGMNTOct 06, 2014 22:18:40 | Can you explain why the player wants to be a werewolf? That will help us understand his expectation and give on advice on how best to meet it. |
| #9RPGBGOct 07, 2014 0:11:19 | The barbarian class makes almost a perfect warewolf. Make the rage resistance apply to only non-silvered weapon and in return give the player advantage on perception checks related to sound or smell and the ability to use one of his rages to turn into wolf/dire wolf/legendary wolf at lvls 1/7/14 or something along those lines. Add a claw or bite attack (instead weapon attacks, not in addition) during rage while you are at it. You have animal form, hybrid form (reflavored rage) and human form. |
| #10Raez_DaevanOct 07, 2014 6:00:34 |
|
| #11BeaumontSebosOct 07, 2014 6:47:11 |
|
| (Reply to #8)BeaumontSebos |
|
| (Reply to #5)BeaumontSebos |
|
| (Reply to #6)BeaumontSebos |
|
| (Reply to #9)BeaumontSebos |
|
| (Reply to #10)BeaumontSebos |
|
| #17TimboramaOct 07, 2014 10:34:18 | Have them be an RP Werewolf without the Werewolf mechanics (from the MM).
So simple yet so effective! The real trick is finding the "proper" class to mimic some things they wanna do. 4E had Druid at-will shapeshift, so that worked. But in 5th, maybe Barbarian (either subclass) that uses "Weapon" attacks that are/mimic actual weapons as their shifted form's bite or claw. Or, again, Druid (Moon Druid, this time).
Now, if the player complains they're not a "real" werewolf because they can't resist non-silver or give other beings the disease, we have reason to believe they're just in it to be overpowered. So, in that case, bite them and have them contract the Curse. Suddenly the PC is either unplayable or a terrible person to keep in the party because of their chaoticly evil tendencies...but what did they expect? |
| #18TherosOct 07, 2014 7:35:38 | Personally I think you’re asking for trouble letting the player be a werewolf. Typically the character steals the spotlight from the rest of the party unless the player makes a conscience effort not to. Then that player starts feeling dissatisfied with his choice because he’s constantly throttling back his character. It sounds like you’re already having second thoughts about it since you’re looking to dial back the powers the PC gets by being a Lycanthrope. If you’re going to allow this I suggest running the PC as a Lycanthrope as it is written in the book. It’s not that hard to deal with the character using in game knowledge regardless of what level they are. Here are my reasons.
The damage immunities are a great advantage to be sure but once word gets out that the party is rolling with a werewolf you should feel free to give your enemies silver edged weapons. Vulnerable to silver is a huge handicap that offsets the immunities. Be sure not to allow his barbarian resistance to soften this.
Chaotic Evil is just an alignment. It doesn’t mean that he needs to suddenly start attacking the party or going on a murder spree (although that’s what a werewolf in fiction tends to do). Talk with your player about this and hammer down how he’s going to role-play it. If he’s going to disrupt the game or hijack the story, change his mind or don’t allow him to play the character. As a DM your responsibility is to ALL your player’s not just one.
The +1 to AC while in hybrid form is inconsequential in the big picture, I wouldn’t worry about it.
How to convince him not to play a werewolf: -As others in the post said, he’s playing a barbarian which means if you don’t allow lycanthropy he can easily simulate it with regular barbarian class features. He can choose Wolf as his spirit beast at level 3 which will grant him the physical features of a werewolf (and some juicy bonuses as well). -His resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing are a good substitute for his silver vulnerability (which at higher levels will pretty much guarantee his death). -He can easily justify coming from a tribe of werewolves in his backstory. There’s a lot of story gold for the both of you to work with. Perhaps he left before he could get the curse. Maybe there’s a pack (literally) who are tracking him, in order to bring him back to perform the rite. Maybe the rite was interrupted by a group of religious zealots or druids and he had to flee for his life, forever holding a grudge towards them for robbing him of his destiny. -The rest of the lycanthrope mythos is flavor text that he can role-play as normal. His character gets edgy during a full moon. A bestial rage lurks behind his amber eyes. He has an allergy to silver -The point is, he can have most of the fun of playing a werewolf without the mess it would cause you in your encounters or him wreaking his character with multiclassing or using a messy homebrew band-aid.
That's my opinion |
| #19MechatarrasqueOct 07, 2014 8:41:32 | Unlimited at-will shape changing at 1st level is too powerful for 5e. I would tie shape changing to rage. You rage, you change shape.
I would modify his point buy so that the PC has at least the minimum werewolf strength, and any points left over the player can use as he/she pleases.
I have to think some more on the resistance and the alignment change. When a member of my party gets bitten by a werewolf, every time the PC changes into an animal or hybrid, they have to roll (vs charisma) to see if they are still in charge. It is a low roll (DC 10) to begin with, but for every 10 points worth of damage the PC takes, they have to roll again (+1 DC every time until they change back) to see if they are still in control, but that wouldn't make sense for a "natural born" werewolf. |
| #20EzechielDantanOct 07, 2014 9:40:03 | I'd just change Rage a bit, allowing him to shift but receiving normal damage from silver weapons and resistance to other weapons. I'd also require him to have scores at least equal to a vanilla werewolf, and a mandatory background giving stealth and perception skills or at least require him to take them somehow.
Every rage use allows him to shift for up to an hour at a time, spending more time would be possible but results in him losing control and turning CE. |
| #21Captain_KoboldOct 07, 2014 9:41:09 | What world are you playing in? In Eberron for example, not all werewolf bloodlines are Chaotic Evil. (Although you add the issue of almost all lycanthopes having been purged, and if the word gets out about the character, he might get hunted down by the Church of the Silver Flame.)
If you're mixing wildshaping Druid into the mix, one option might be rather than give vulnerability to silver, to cause silver damage to carry through to the werewolf's natural form. So if the werewolf takes 5 damage from a silver weapon while in wolf shape, when they resume normal form, they are 5 damage down. |
| #22Gruff_IronfistOct 07, 2014 16:02:01 |
|
| #23IllithidbixOct 07, 2014 17:21:18 | Are they the sort of player that accepts that a reskinned Barbarian or Moon Druid is in fact a werewolf? - Or do they want to have werewolf mechanics that are obviously different from the classes in the PHB?
Alignment wise... well I'm a vocal detractor of Alignment, but that aside: what I interpret "You are now Chaotic Evil" is getting at is that in the werewolf stories, the werewolf persona was entirely different from the person, who might just wake up and find all their family were killed by a horrific beast. Now I doubt this is what your player is going for. so either:
1) You ignore it entirely - turning into a wolf doesn't change behaviour, except they like to sniff things. 2) have a reward/penalty thing going on. - Perhaps give the option to indulge in werewolfy behaviour for (minor) stats benefits, or reject their nature for (minor) penalties. 3) Just tell the player "You feel these urges" and let them roleplay as much or as little as they want. |
| #24BeaumontSebosOct 08, 2014 7:21:39 | Thanks everybody for your help! Got some good direction. |
| #25UthracOct 08, 2014 7:58:59 | One more thought ... you don't need to "frontload" at Level 1.
I love the idea of the druid's wildshape feature ... though even at Level 2 perhaps the PC can only transform into wolf form and is unable to attain hybrid ... yet.
Keeping balance in mind, as the PC advances in levels, he can gain more control, more options, etc., perhaps even allowing "hybrid" as a form to choose from.
This can be a great source of character growth over time, vs. trying to shoehorn an idea into the very start of character creation. |
| (Reply to #25)Timborama |
|