win d&d spell...?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Anbr

Dec 31, 2014 9:23:54

Obviously, this issue was mentioned before - sorry for that.

 

As enthusiastic as I am about 5e, I want to know if there are seroius flaws regarding game balance, especially between classes; As a beginner DM that lacks the perspective veterans have, and really wants my players to have fun game, I want to know as much as I can before our group dive into the game. Havnen't run a session yet so it might not be fair to assume there's something wrong; the thing that made me wonder was inexhaustible cantrips.

 

From your experience, are there any of these:

 

- "I cast my win D&D spell"

 

- ridiculously overpowered class builds

 

- cleric abuses the rules as written to easily raise an army of undead

 

 - "I can blow up mountains and you're still a peasant with a sword"

 

 - "I'm a peasant with a sword but I turned this orc company into a grayish mush"

 

If so, how did you handle those?

 

I realize perfect class balance is only echievable if there's one class and one path. I don't want that. I also understand the designers put special effort to make the game balanced. Still, I want to know what do you think.

 

Thanks.

#2

Stormborn20

Dec 31, 2014 9:48:59

D&D isn't generally a game where one can win or lose.

#3

iserith

Dec 31, 2014 9:57:25

I don't really see any balance issues like you describe in this edition with respect to spellcasters and non-spellcasters.

 

But it's also important to keep a couple of things in mind. Game balance isn't all that important when the goals of play are clear, agreed to, and followed. Those goals of play, as outlined on page 2 of the Basic Rules, are to have a good time and to create an exciting, memorable story. Those are the "win conditions" of D&D. If a player or DM is making choices that do not help achieve those goals, including but not limited to, trying to abuse rules or build characters and act in a way that outshines others in a fashion detrimental to the game experience, then the problem is not the rules... it's with those players or DM.

#4

Anbr

Dec 31, 2014 10:35:42

Stormborn20 wrote:
#5

EzechielDantan

Dec 31, 2014 11:17:27

Anbr wrote:
#6

CCS

Dec 31, 2014 13:54:55
No, such things don't exist. Never have, regardless of edition. What DOES exist are DMs who can't handle various things. If you find something that seems overpowered? 1) read it's rules a few more times. 2) modify the types of challenges your presenting. Do NOT take the knee jerk reaction of banning/moding the offending bit. Because doing that won't make you a better DM.
(Reply to #6)

Ath-kethin

CCS wrote:
#8

Rhenny

Dec 31, 2014 16:08:37

Generally if the DM presents a balanced game session (opportunity to explore, interact and combat) the game will be balanced.  So far, I've only seen pcs/players short changed when the thing the are good at, or the aspect of the game they like isn't represented enough.  

#9

Beldak_Serpenthelm

Dec 31, 2014 16:21:43

CCS wrote:
#10

DM_HEEGZ

Dec 31, 2014 17:28:53

There is nothing game breaking in 5ed of D&D. The unlimited cantrips are not an issue. The only thing that can really break the game is a DM that allows things to get out of hand. Use your common sense and you should be fine. The above advice was really good regarding not giving in to a knee jerk reaction if things are awry. Think it over, identify the issue(s) and then gradually work through them in your upcoming plots. This is a great way to introduce villians and plot twists. 

#11

Pwentt

Dec 31, 2014 18:12:33

Coming from someone who loves character Op I haven't seen anything truly game breaking. Certainly some things that are more powerful/useful than others but nothing that is actually going to break the game.

#12

Imaculata

Jan 02, 2015 3:06:01

CCS wrote:
#13

malisteen

Jan 02, 2015 7:24:22

Actually, wish->simulacrum is pretty devastating to any semblance of game balance, especially when chained.  If you were looking for an 'I win D&D' spell, that would be it.  But wish is using a ninth level spell slot, so isn't really a problem until endgame.  There are some other problematic spells, particularly conjurations that summon creatures that can then cast spells more powerful than the conjuration itself (iirc there's a 5th or 6th level druid spell that amounts to a buttload of polymorphs?  Not sure, am afb).  It's certainly nothing like as bad as 2nd or 3rd editions could be, at least not out of the gate, at least not for anything already identified that I'm aware of.

 

Animate Dead & Create Undead can likewise be quite strong, especially with prep time, but the servants you get from it are nowhere near as powerful as they once were.  Skeletons and Zombies in particular are not templates anymore, but specific monsters that do not meaningfully scale with level.

 

As for cantrips, there are certainly some good/useful ones, but they're not generally going to be topping what other classes can do at will, at least not for combat damage purposes.

 

If anything, there's some bits that are rather sub-par, but I don't really want to get into arguments about it here.

#14

Stormborn20

Jan 02, 2015 7:05:29

Imaculata wrote:
#15

Imaculata

Jan 02, 2015 7:35:15

Stormborn20 wrote:
#16

DaveDash

Jan 03, 2015 14:10:49

Wish -> Simulacrum can be limited in theory by component cost.

Summoning 8 pixies though is on the verge of game breaking. So is shapechanging into various golems against creatures that do not have magic damage (such as Dragons), or using Leomunds Tiny Hut before tough encounters as an invulnerability force field.

(Reply to #16)

Ashrym

DaveDash wrote:
(Reply to #17)

CCS

Ashrym wrote: