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| #1Greenstone.WalkerJan 13, 2015 22:16:17 | Why can humans and elves procreate? Aren't they different species? Why aren't there elf-dwarfs or halfling-gnomes running around?
What about half-orcs? If an orc can interbreed with a human and a human can interbreed with an elf, then can't an orc interbred with an elf?
I have some ideas for a campaign theme that actually answer these questions, but my ideas are very vague. I'm keen to hear if any of you have come up with answers to these.
The world I'm working in is The Forgotten Realms, if that makes a difference.
Thanks in advance. |
| #2gregscJan 13, 2015 22:33:32 | Humans and Elves can make babies because Tolkien said so. |
| #3ReiusJan 13, 2015 22:40:21 | Humans can and will get with anything. Sometimes magic happens. |
| #4Devils-AdvocateJan 14, 2015 0:25:57 | In Dark Sun there are half dwarves and half giants. In Forgotten Realms there are freaking half dragons.
It's possible that all of the various races are able to interbreed, but it's incredibly rare, and you just see more half human mixes because humans are less discerning about who they mate with. I guess. Personally, I prefer for "half humans" to not literally have one human parent and one non-human parent, but for them to actually be their own race(s), with distant ancestry of both parent races. |
| #5ankiyavonJan 14, 2015 1:12:42 | There is no canon answer that isn't 'because the book says so'.
You are free to come up with whatever explanation you like.
I will note, however, that it is possible for different species to interbreed in reality, although it is far from assured, and usually their offspring are sterile or have something else wrong with them. Examples include the mule (donkey/horse) and liger (lion/tiger). The fact that half-elves exist isn't that weird; the fact that they are a sustainable race of their own is a little weird, but not ridiculously so.
Personally, the way I usually run it is that all of the common PC races are capable of interbreeding. However, due to the way the children turn out, mechanically, any half-race that does not have a specific race entry in the books counts as one race or the other (via expression of specific traits and chromosomes and whatever I'm not a biologist).
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| #6SorxoresJan 14, 2015 5:07:49 | if you want a real world exemple of this look for the "ring theory" (I've study in French, I'm not too sure of the English name).
Imagine a lizard of the species X1 living near the Grand canyon. The canyon cannot cross by jumping over it and too long to be walked around. Now the species X1 leave on the north edge of the canyon. the lizard population goes well and grow and start invading the north east region of the canyon (for some reason the lizard are unable to invade the north west edge) Over many generation the north est population evolve slightly different then the north population and become X2. X2 is still the same species as X1 but there is a difference. X2 is able to invade the east edge of the canyon and survive there and evolve into X3. X3 is still the same species as X1 and X2 and are able to reproduce together, but X3 will never reproduce with X1 since they are too far from each other to meet each other. X3 invade the south east edge of the canyon and beccome X4, then grow to the south edge and become X5, then X6 to the west and finally X7 on the north west edge.
Now X7 meet X1 since they are neighbor, but X7 is so different from X1 that they cannot reproduce together. but X7 can reproduce with X6 and X5, X6 can reproduce with X5 and X4. All those lizard are still the same Species since X7 can reproduce with X5 who can reproduce with X3 who can reproduce with X2 and who can reproduce X1, but X7 cannot reprosude with X1.
Same thing could be imagine between human, elf and orc. if human are X3 and elf are X1 and orc are X5 they can all reproduce with human, but elf cannot reproduce with elf.
then in the PHB they are teh PLAYER PLAYABLE RACE, not all the race. I saw a forgotten realm module with half dwarf half orc in it. in the expedition module, there is a half human half drow. Can you imagine how big the PHB should be if all the different race combination could be there? |
| #7RazintarrJan 14, 2015 5:54:46 |
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| #8AaronOfBarbariaJan 14, 2015 8:03:15 | To brutally oversimplify what Sorxores has said on the matter, and share my own setting details at the same time:
Elves exist because some time before recorded history fae stole away human young in large numbers and raised them in their own realm, and they evolved to be a notable unique species while still being pretty much human on a genetic level. This fact has been "forgotten" because the barrier between faerie and the the material plane grew too strong to easily pass and the act of stealing children "fell out of style" among the fae at large.
Orcs are similarly near-enough to human genetically to interbreed because they too originate from humans. In the era before the current, when mankind were slaves to other more powerful races (genies, giants, and dragons, among others), a particularly magical but now extinct (technically just "gone") race of slavers performed expirements to magically enhance their slave stock to be better suited to hard labor and warfare.
Also related, Tieflings in my group's setting are usually not of demonic or devilish heritage, but originate from genies (Efreet most typically). to To finish the list of "half breeds" in my group's setting, Aasimar are not a breeding result, but the result of investiture of divine power made from some angel to some humanoid which created a new species which breeds true (but only with each other - the only reason their are a significant number of aasimar is that angels are created beings and creating more in times of need, or war, is a much more involved task than scooping up a few hundred humanoids and creating aasimar of them), and half-dragons and cambions are specifically able to occur because the non-humanoid parent can use magic to assume the physical form of an appropriate breeding mate, but not without a splash of their magical nature.
Basically, all the "half human" races in my setting are the result of something magical adding its influence, specifically because I don't want to figure out how it would all work that humans have interbred with various things without "a wizard did it" to patch up the explanations - mostly because I'm not really a fan of half-breeds (blame Star Trek, I do) so I have assigned magic as the catalyst since then I can feel the half-breeds are fantastical, rather than ridiculous. |
| #9durntaurJan 14, 2015 8:28:38 |
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| #10dafrcaJan 14, 2015 14:00:14 |
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| (Reply to #10)AaronOfBarbaria |
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| #12BRJNJan 14, 2015 17:38:17 | OP: If you want to write up different and interesting half-and-half race traits, by all means go ahead. Maybe WotC will pay you for the rights to publish - you've saved them some work!
Apparently Humans are in 'the center of a zone' of breeding compatability, but other races are too far removed from each other to cross-breed. Conceptually speaking. A DM could use IRL "common ancestor" trees for Humans, Neanderthals, "Lucy", Bigfoot, and others as inspiration to create a pseudo-scientific explanation for the fictional races, if you wanted.
If the races were in fact created ex nihilo by their respective patron gods, then we are stuck with "that's just the way it is" and Bruce Hornsby riffs drift gently through the background.
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| #13dafrcaJan 14, 2015 19:46:31 |
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| (Reply to #13)AaronOfBarbaria |
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| #15Devils-AdvocateJan 14, 2015 23:10:27 |
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| #16durntaurJan 15, 2015 9:30:29 |
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| (Reply to #10)Coredump00 |
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| #18feartheminotaurJan 15, 2015 10:13:03 | Way back when it was 3e, before the half, I had a DM who, when you wanted to play a half-orc or half-elf, made a roll on his "Mendel Table" and the result of your parent's coupling came out half, or one or the other. He had a lenghty table for which characteristics you would have as well. Me, it's just easier to say "becasue...magic".
And another reason for lack of full half-x for all races that I don't think anyone mentioned is straight up species-ism. It could be a non-biological reason, but rather legal or cultural instead. Dwarfs don't mate with elves, because ew...gross! Elves don't mate with Gnomes because it's against Gnomish law. To them it's a form of what we call in IRL 'beastiality'. Whereas the existing half- races are due to blatant disregard for polite society's rules and norms (e.g., half-orc) or have become accepted, if still frowned upon by some (e.g., half-elf). |
| #19blake_marloweJan 16, 2015 2:52:31 | i hate, hate, hate half-[D&D race]. why is the common species denominator human? a great big meh to half-elf/half-humans or half-orc/half-humans as individual bloodlines/races/whatever. sure, you can handwave "it's magic" but quite honestly, that canard is old & busted.
it's interesting to note that in 3.x, d20 modern and star wars called it species, not race, since species cannot generally interbreed and produce viable offspring, while D&D goes right on trucking with "race"
having said all of that: when i homebrewed 3.x stuff, i rejiggered the races so their bennies were biological vs cultural. if you wanted a half-something, pick the biological of one and the cultural of the other. |
| #20draegnJan 17, 2015 7:10:58 | In our games we have always asked "Why should orcs have all the "fun"?" so we have half goblins, bugbears, trolls, ogres, etc...
Tieflings/Nephilim... well there are always jaded people who give themselves to higher powers. Assimir are virtually non-existant as we have house ruled that an assimir would result if the deity the higher power served granted permission for a union.
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| #21OrwellianHaggisJan 17, 2015 11:21:31 | We just treat humans, the most adaptable race, as being extremely adaptable in terms of breeding too. Half-races can only come from a human base. It doesn't make consistent logical sense but it cuts out the endless variations of dwarf-orc, giant-goblin, elf-llama etc. |
| #22CaliburnJan 17, 2015 15:59:55 |
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| #23EbbTide808Jan 17, 2015 16:32:30 | There are multiple examples of interspecies breeding that can produce offspring, but those offspring are sterile. Might be an interesting hook for roleplay. |
| #24dafrcaJan 17, 2015 16:37:26 |
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