Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sim-h Jun 30, 2015 17:15:41	The DMG states in its disappointingly cursory section on experience points (p. 260) that the XP for monsters killed, routed or captured is divided amongst the PCs. So, this is clear - you DO get XPs if the enemies flee the battle, or surrender. All good so far, since the players now do not have to massacre everything in sight to get the XPs for overcoming the challenge. There's even some token morale rules, which is nice.   However this begs the question of what happens if an escaped enemy resurfaces later, or the captured enemies later escape and hunt down the characters?   Would you award the XPs over again for defeating the enemies you already got XPs for? Or would you rule that the XPs had already been given, and the players get no more?   I guess I can see more arguments in favour of just assigning the XPs over again. The enemy got back full hit points etc so I guess is a new challenge. However, this would need to be managed to avoid exploits if players are that way inclined (let the uber-vengeful guy keep fleeing and try to ambush them again later....)   It might on the other hand be worthwhile only giving the XPs once. That way escaped enemies would be real pain to the players if they resurface and must be defeated for no XP reward - but maybe too much anti-fun?    I'm just wondering how others would DM this sort of thing?
#2 iserith Jun 30, 2015 17:50:42	sim-h wrote:
#3 Varden_Khol Jun 30, 2015 18:00:33	Grok the Orc comes to attack you and is chased off. You get some XP. Awesome.   I see no difference in the level of challenge if a) Grok the Orc comes back and has another go b) Krog the Orc decides to try his luck   These pose the same difficulty and in my mind should be worth the same XP. Although a recurring foe is always more interesting :P
(Reply to #3) Ath-kethin	Varden_Khol wrote:
#5 DigitalEccentric Jul 01, 2015 0:45:19	I'd award XP per encounter, even if it was the same NPC enemy that came back.   The players don't determine what the NPC's do though, you do. If you suspect they're letting him go deliberately to farm XP, then personally I'd either remove him from the game entirely (for the sake of game inegrity), or if you want to keep true to the "vengeful" nature of the NPC, then have the guy come back with an overwhelming force to crush the players. That's what I would do if I really wanted vengeance and knew I couldn't crush them on my own.   Would teach the players a valuable lesson in not trying to 'game' the game.
#6 Barky Jul 01, 2015 1:32:03	I tend to not give double experience if in the same adventure. If the players are exploring Castle Arrgh and encounter the Crazed Semi-lich in room 27, then make him retreat to room 42, where they encounter him again, I don't give double XP for that. That's really the same encounter, just spread out im time.   If they make him flee his lair and they encounter him later somewhere else, then yeah, full XP each time.
#7 sim-h Jul 01, 2015 1:56:43	Good answers - thanks! Looks like pretty much 100% give the full XP for every encounter, which seems fine to me. The issue of diminishing 'experience' returns on fighting the same foe is already dealt with by the system of increasing XP requirements per level.   In the case of the same adventure, I'm intending not to really apply XPs until the end of each session (although I'll announce them as we go to keep the players interested) so the retreating Crazed Semi-lich in Barky's post wouldn't be a problem either.
#8 Imaculata Jul 01, 2015 1:56:51	I give out experience for the encounter, not for the enemy. A villain could reoccur a thousand times, and I would give exp every single time he esapes.
#9 Rya.Reisender Jul 01, 2015 2:00:30	Yeah, also quite situational for me. I'd certainly allow getting XP multiple times but I wouldn't just reward it by default (except for killing XP, that's always awarded directly). Like if the player gets an enemy to retreat, then catch up with him directly and kill him, I wouldn't reward the XP twice.   I'm more inclined to reward XP simply for accomplishments. Like say an enemy castle is guarded by 4 guards, but the group just ignores them and takes the secret passage into the castle instead, I might actually award the XP from the guards as accomplishment for finding the secret passage. If they later have to escape the castle through the main route and end up killing the guards in the end, I still give the XP for the killing.
#10 Thoughts_My_Aim Jul 01, 2015 3:26:26	I agree with those who would give out xp every time. In fact I'd go further and even say that deliberately letting enemies escape so you can fight them again is perfectly acceptable, at least for certain types of game. Superman isn't playing in bad faith every time he fails to kill Lex Luthor.
#11 Imaculata Jul 01, 2015 4:30:12	In my campaign, the players found a smugglers ship stranded on a beach. Countless barrels of rum were lying on the beach, or floating in the water. But there was a catch, there were giant crabs waiting for them on the beach. Some of which were hidden underwater or in the sand. The druid decided that he'd shapeshift into the form of a crab, and try to steal the barrels without angering the giant crabs. Apart for one crab, he was succesful. So I awarded full exp to the entire party, as if the party had defeated all the crabs.   In the future they could go back to this beach, and kill the crabs anyway. If they do that, I'll give them exp again.
#12 iserith Jul 01, 2015 5:09:55	Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
#13 AaronOfBarbaria Jul 01, 2015 5:46:13	Chalk me up as another on the list that is giving out the XP each time the character are overcoming the challenge presented, even if it is narratively the same monsters/npcs that constituted some prior challenge.   Anecdote: In one campaign I ran, the party defeated the same lich on 5 different occasions. He had some nefarious plan they had caught wind of, they tracked him down and beat him down... but his phylactery wasn't present, so they had to figure out where he was later by catching wind of his nefarious plans again. Eventually, they figured out where the lich kept his phylactery and showed up with intent to destroy it and him for good, and I had the rare opportunity as a DM to have a perfectly in-character "you meddling kids"-style monologue for a villain... who was then knocked to the floor, held down, and bathed in holy water before the party's cleric called upon an archon to take the phylactery and destroy it (because that was easier than finding a volcano to throw it in - their words, not mine).
#14 Thoughts_My_Aim Jul 01, 2015 5:55:57	iserith wrote:
#15 iserith Jul 01, 2015 6:11:02	Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
#16 sim-h Jul 01, 2015 6:15:16	Effectively what several people are saying here is that they are giving XP awards equivalent to the value of monsters in an area, for a non-combat achievement. The bypassing of the 4 guards, or the giant crabs. They have not overcome the monsters in any way, but bypassed them.   I heartily agree with this, but it's something the RAW really do not address in enough depth, or encourage at all.   Also glad to see nobody is making the case for 'Chapter XPs' or whatever - surely an evil aberration against human nature.
#17 sim-h Jul 01, 2015 6:17:51	iserith wrote:
#18 iserith Jul 01, 2015 6:20:07	sim-h wrote:
#19 iserith Jul 01, 2015 6:21:29	sim-h wrote:
#20 sim-h Jul 01, 2015 6:29:21	iserith wrote:
#21 iserith Jul 01, 2015 6:48:18	sim-h wrote:
#22 Thoughts_My_Aim Jul 01, 2015 7:07:13	iserith wrote:
#23 Thoughts_My_Aim Jul 01, 2015 7:11:48	iserith wrote:
#24 iserith Jul 01, 2015 7:30:55	Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
#25 Ranthalan Jul 01, 2015 8:50:25	Characters gain experience by overcoming obstacles.  Doesn't matter if the obstacle is the same one.  A rock climber gains experience every time they climb a rock face, even if it's the same rock face.  The amount of experience gained will diminish each time, but this is modelled in D&D by the level system.  An obstacle worth 50 XP is 16% of a level at 1st level, but only 8% of a level at 2nd.   If a party sneaked around some guards going into the castle, they get the XP for successfully gaining entrance.  If they sneaked past the same guards on the way out, they get XP for the success.  If the players want to sneak back in to try and rack up XP, it's their perogative, although I would prompt them for reasons for story purposes.  I wouldn't let them in until they could give me a reason other than XP.   It's not a problem at my table, however.  I award XP when the party rests instead of the moment they earn it.  This speeds up the game a bit.  We describe it as the experience is gained when the characters have a moment to reflect on the events.  The players don't know exactly when or how much XP they've earned for any particular encounter.  The net result is there's no real focus on XP (except that time the monk was 7 XP from the next level).  YMMV
#26 Barky Jul 01, 2015 15:35:47	sim-h wrote:
#27 Greenstone.Walker Jul 01, 2015 16:36:00	sim-h wrote:
#28 DwarvenGm Jul 01, 2015 18:10:05	recently I've switched to the milestone method of leveling and I'm not going back. This allows players to level up no matter how they solve an issue. Even if they find w creative way to avoid most of the fights I had planned they still level up. This has worked great for me and has gotten a lot more creativity out of my players. So it's a win win situation.
#29 Glimjack Jul 01, 2015 20:58:43	Even if you believe the PCs are letting NPC villains go in order to farm their XP. Does it matter? They are still spending time (real-time and game time) and expending resources (spells, Hit Dice, Superiority Dice) to defeat him another time? Is it really any different to fighting a different NPC?
#30 Noon Jul 01, 2015 23:32:23	Players letting the bad guy get away is not automatically an act of ill will.   Honestly, if anyone promotes player contributions to the game but at the same time tries to say this is always an act of ill will, that's a contradiction.   Also... <quote>However, this would need to be managed to avoid exploits if players are that way inclined (let the uber-vengeful guy keep fleeing and try to ambush them again later....)</quote>   The subtext of this problem is that the person saying it is ensuring combats cannot kill the PC's. That is why the vengeful guy coming back again and again is an 'exploit', because he can never kill the PC's anyway because the GM wont let him.
#31 Imaculata Jul 02, 2015 2:10:05	sim-h wrote:
#32 Coredump00 Jul 02, 2015 4:31:45	I think the answer is... it depends on the details.     If the goal was to rid the area of bandits, and the bandits run away from the PCs.  They did not achieve the goal, they do not get full XP.  In this scenario, the bandits 'won' because they are still around.   If the goal was to get the stolen gear back, and the bandits run away leaving the gear. Then they may get full XP.   OTOH,  I may set up the adventure such that getting the gear back is worth ###XP, and they can do it by killing everything, scaring them off, sneaking in, bribes, buying,...whatever.   Similarly, some encounters are designed that the creature(s) will always run off. I do not reward full XP for the creature in that situation either.     The standard XP system works because there tends to be a pretty close correlation between 'killing bad guys' and 'achieving goals'.   But sometimes that relationship isn't quite so close, and XP Awards go from a Science to an Art.
#33 Rhenny Jul 05, 2015 8:31:37	DwarvenGm wrote: