[3.5] Heir of Siberys -- Story versus Mechanics - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[3.5] Heir of Siberys -- Story versus Mechanics

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
EnderXenocide0
Oct 28, 2012 9:01:17 Here's something that has bothered me: A Siberys Dragonmark is the most powerful manifestation of a Dragonmark (ignoring Vol's mark). Now, page 63 of the Eberron Campaign Setting has this to say on the subject of Dragonmarks:

Each more powerful aspect of a dragonmark stacks with the less powerful aspects, so that a lesser mark retains the power of a least mark, and a greater mark retains the power of its associated mark.
#2
KhanSemus
Oct 28, 2012 23:37:07 As I read it (I looked through the ECS, Dragonmarked, and MoE but may have missed something):

The section on page 63 that you reference only talks about three levels, so I assumed it excluded the Siberys mark from that power gain.

The Heir of Siberys description forbids those holding the Dragonmarked feats from taking the prestige class but does not explicitly forbid a player from taking the feats later. (This may be implied) It only forbids taking the Dragonmarked Heir prestige class.

I'm reading the last of the Draconic Prophesies books now, so I'm familiar with Gaven, but my mind has adjusted for 4e so it's interesting to try and reconcile the 3.5 aspects with what I see as transitional elements.

Gaven is not only an Heir of Siberys but also a character of prophesy. It is mentioned in one of the books that he is stronger than previous holders of the Siberys mark of Storm. Gaven seems to create rough weather as a subconscious action, so I wouldn't consider that a regular ability for an Heir. He does create the Storm of Vengeance several times, with acid rain described, so not every storm he creates is using that ability.

In addition to gust of wind, control winds/wind's favor, and call lightning/lightning bolt, Gaven uses bursts of thunder. Gaven is also a spellcaster of some kind, casting Fire Shield but few others.

This has become a long post...wrapping up.

Mechanically, I thought it was an oversight that Siberys marks don't grant the skill bonus (+2 Balance for Storm) and more abilities. As written, holding the Siberys mark only grants one ability (and bonus feats or spellcasting).

I would allow the bonus feats to be used on other 'Marks, since the class description doesn't explicity forbid it. It would solve that conundrum about Gaven. I wouldn't give the lower abilities automatically though. That seems too powerful. Is your player a spellcaster? Do they have lighting or sonic abilities? A DC boost doesn't seem far-fetched to me.

Personally, Keith Baker's comments on dragonmarks, rituals, and powers in 4e solve a lot of issues I had with spending so many feats on 'Marks (especially with all the fun feats in the Dragonmarked) but that is off-topic.
#3
EnderXenocide0
Oct 29, 2012 0:48:23 She is, in fact, a Duskblade. We've considered thematically swapping some spells out for more storm-related spells. I considered DC or caster level boosts, as well, like you mentioned. I'm fairly certain that I'll drop the bonus feats granted by the prestige class and give the three lower dragonmarks. It makes the most sense to me.
#4
KhanSemus
Oct 29, 2012 12:25:45 Since she is already a spellcaster (with access to similar spells/spell levels to the spell-like abilities), what about just adding certain of the Storm abilities to her spells known? I would feel bad for cutting off the bonus feats or spell-caster levels entirely. Maybe at each spell-level, she knows one additional spell from the list of spell-like abilities? I feel like this wouldn't break the game and still allow her to take the first level bonus feat and maybe one additional caster level, but take away the third level bonus to even it out. Do you have access to the Dragonmarked sourcebook? It has additional spell-like abilities at the three lower 'Mark levels and feats for anyone holding a dragonmarked and even Siberys specific feats.
#5
EnderXenocide0
Oct 31, 2012 11:33:20 Adding spells to her spell list is an excellent idea! It is a better solution than removing all the bonus feats/spellcaster progression. And yes, I do have Dragonmarked and love the wealth of options for marked characters in it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 EnderXenocide0 Oct 28, 2012 9:01:17	Here's something that has bothered me: A Siberys Dragonmark is the most powerful manifestation of a Dragonmark (ignoring Vol's mark). Now, page 63 of the Eberron Campaign Setting has this to say on the subject of Dragonmarks: Each more powerful aspect of a dragonmark stacks with the less powerful aspects, so that a lesser mark retains the power of a least mark, and a greater mark retains the power of its associated mark.
#2 KhanSemus Oct 28, 2012 23:37:07	As I read it (I looked through the ECS, Dragonmarked, and MoE but may have missed something): The section on page 63 that you reference only talks about three levels, so I assumed it excluded the Siberys mark from that power gain. The Heir of Siberys description forbids those holding the Dragonmarked feats from taking the prestige class but does not explicitly forbid a player from taking the feats later. (This may be implied) It only forbids taking the Dragonmarked Heir prestige class. I'm reading the last of the Draconic Prophesies books now, so I'm familiar with Gaven, but my mind has adjusted for 4e so it's interesting to try and reconcile the 3.5 aspects with what I see as transitional elements. Gaven is not only an Heir of Siberys but also a character of prophesy. It is mentioned in one of the books that he is stronger than previous holders of the Siberys mark of Storm. Gaven seems to create rough weather as a subconscious action, so I wouldn't consider that a regular ability for an Heir. He does create the Storm of Vengeance several times, with acid rain described, so not every storm he creates is using that ability. In addition to gust of wind, control winds/wind's favor, and call lightning/lightning bolt, Gaven uses bursts of thunder. Gaven is also a spellcaster of some kind, casting Fire Shield but few others. This has become a long post...wrapping up. Mechanically, I thought it was an oversight that Siberys marks don't grant the skill bonus (+2 Balance for Storm) and more abilities. As written, holding the Siberys mark only grants one ability (and bonus feats or spellcasting). I would allow the bonus feats to be used on other 'Marks, since the class description doesn't explicity forbid it. It would solve that conundrum about Gaven. I wouldn't give the lower abilities automatically though. That seems too powerful. Is your player a spellcaster? Do they have lighting or sonic abilities? A DC boost doesn't seem far-fetched to me. Personally, Keith Baker's comments on dragonmarks, rituals, and powers in 4e solve a lot of issues I had with spending so many feats on 'Marks (especially with all the fun feats in the Dragonmarked) but that is off-topic.
#3 EnderXenocide0 Oct 29, 2012 0:48:23	She is, in fact, a Duskblade. We've considered thematically swapping some spells out for more storm-related spells. I considered DC or caster level boosts, as well, like you mentioned. I'm fairly certain that I'll drop the bonus feats granted by the prestige class and give the three lower dragonmarks. It makes the most sense to me.
#4 KhanSemus Oct 29, 2012 12:25:45	Since she is already a spellcaster (with access to similar spells/spell levels to the spell-like abilities), what about just adding certain of the Storm abilities to her spells known? I would feel bad for cutting off the bonus feats or spell-caster levels entirely. Maybe at each spell-level, she knows one additional spell from the list of spell-like abilities? I feel like this wouldn't break the game and still allow her to take the first level bonus feat and maybe one additional caster level, but take away the third level bonus to even it out. Do you have access to the Dragonmarked sourcebook? It has additional spell-like abilities at the three lower 'Mark levels and feats for anyone holding a dragonmarked and even Siberys specific feats.
#5 EnderXenocide0 Oct 31, 2012 11:33:20	Adding spells to her spell list is an excellent idea! It is a better solution than removing all the bonus feats/spellcaster progression. And yes, I do have Dragonmarked and love the wealth of options for marked characters in it.