I jumped on the Eberron setting when it first came out- it sounded really cool and I was a fan of Keith Baker's writing. We had a great game-group going and had some great adventures before my wife and I had to move out of the state. We lost touch with the happenings of DnD for a while, but are now trying to get a game going again. We -just- now found out about the 4th edition rules (I told you we were out of touch) and they seem pretty cool and we want to try them.
Looking over what I could find about 4e, though, it seems like some really radical changes are being made- many of which don't really synch with the Eberron setting. Is the setting going to be overhauled, making my books worthless? How possible is it to run a 4e game using the 3e setting books?
Again, I'm sorry if this has been covered.
Except for Magic of Eberron. This one might be a little, longer to convert.
In fact, I sold all my 3.0/3.5 books on Ebay for a pretty penny
You know, I would make some smartass comment about this, but its people like you that are letting me finish off my 3e collection dirty cheap. So yes, jump ship, abandon the system that you've been playing for years just because the new flavor of the month is out. Just makes my life that much easier.
and one of them has taken her MCAT) and we are playing Eberron. As it has been said that the vast majority of Eberron books are fluff, there to just add to the setting and it is an amazing setting at that. IMO, Eberron is all about the feel of the setting. As long as you have that it's all good. Those books will still be more than good enough to give you some good ideas to keep that feel, whether you are playing 3.5 or 4. And it probably wouldn't be too hard to house rule a thing or two here and there when needed.So yes, jump ship, abandon the system that you've been playing for years...
People abandoned AD&D for 2E, after playing it for a decade. Then they left 2E for 3E, despite those eleven years of devoted service. Then we've got the 3.0 to 3.5 skip. Ultimately 3.5's been around for five years - in other words, I've been playing Feng Shui longer than I've been playing 3.5.
You don't somehow owe something to a system. Gaming is about having fun. If you're enjoying 3E, keep playing it. If someone's willing to sell their 3E stuff based on the limited experience they've had with 4E, it suggests that they weren't as deeply attached to 3E as you are (or that they've had more experience with 4E than you have).
My 3E books aren't going to cry if I sell them. And if I sell them and someone buys them, it's the best of all possible worlds: someone who prefers 3E has gotten books that they want, while I've gotten money for something I don't expect to use.
It's a game, not a puppy. It's not going to miss me when I'm gone.
People abandoned AD&D for 2E, after playing it for a decade. Then they left 2E for 3E, despite those eleven years of devoted service. Then we've got the 3.0 to 3.5 skip. Ultimately 3.5's been around for five years - in other words, I've been playing Feng Shui longer than I've been playing 3.5.
You don't somehow owe something to a system. Gaming is about having fun. If you're enjoying 3E, keep playing it. If someone's willing to sell their 3E stuff based on the limited experience they've had with 4E, it suggests that they weren't as deeply attached to 3E as you are (or that they've had more experience with 4E than you have).
My 3E books aren't going to cry if I sell them. And if I sell them and someone buys them, it's the best of all possible worlds: someone who prefers 3E has gotten books that they want, while I've gotten money for something I don't expect to use.
It's a game, not a puppy. It's not going to miss me when I'm gone.
Well said.
You know, I would make some smartass comment about this, but its people like you that are letting me finish off my 3e collection dirty cheap. So yes, jump ship, abandon the system that you've been playing for years just because the new flavor of the month is out. Just makes my life that much easier.
You still made the smart ass comment. ;)
I agree with Smug in the sense that it's all about having fun. Someone prefers the new, wanting to start fresh, sells the old, and someone benefits, like you, from that decision. Course, I do think it may be a bit short sighted in general. It's my understanding that the books that will be released aren't going to be just photocopies of the 3.5 ones with new rules. So basically all the fluff that was just sold is now pretty much lost for the most part. Hey, if that's what you want that's great, basically resetting to the days when the ECS was first released. Just means, at least for a time, it's going to be an extremely less fleshed out world.
People abandoned AD&D for 2E, after playing it for a decade.
Speak for yourself, I still have all of my 2e books. The mechanics are useable enough as a guideline to converting to 3e, and the flavor behind 90% of the game is in those books. If you want to know about Greyhawk or Faerun, you *HAVE* to go back to your 1e and 2e books to get it.
Did people drop 2e in droves? Sure, but a lot of us kept our books.
I'm sure it was just intended as a smartass comment, but it bugged me. I'll play whatever system I enjoy the most. And if I decide to give up a game I've played for 20 years because I realize that I just have more fun with Savage Worlds, that's not some sort of betrayal of the old faithful system - it's being open to the idea that there might be more out there in the world.
If you want to know about Greyhawk or Faerun, you *HAVE* to go back to your 1e and 2e books to get it.
Sure, and you'll probably have to do the same for Eberron - which is why Barachiel said he saved his 3.5 Eberron books. Looking back to the OP, it's unlikely to make the collection obsolete; instead, it's going to leave new 4E players scurrying to get old 3E Eberron books for the flavor.
Speak for yourself, I still have all of my 2e books. The mechanics are useable enough as a guideline to converting to 3e, and the flavor behind 90% of the game is in those books. If you want to know about Greyhawk or Faerun, you *HAVE* to go back to your 1e and 2e books to get it.
Did people drop 2e in droves? Sure, but a lot of us kept our books.
So most of us will sell the 3E books that had no real Eberron fluff or any usalble fluff in general. It is not betraying anything. It is about getting rid of books that are totally useless to us now mechanically speaking.
And seeing how I love both systems, I will keep my 3rd ed books in the shelf next to my 4th ed books. And every time someone asks if we should take a short session of D&D I will simply ask "3rd or 4th?" And that is all there really is too it.
Along with the core rules, XPH, and the rules compendium I have every Eberron book sitting on my self and they aren't going anywhere. My friends and I plan on starting 4E in the coming weeks (once my books get here from Amazon
That is cool what books did you get.
@Marcus Majarra I think you are right and i real do not like it becaues that is one of the 3 books i have but i do have 3 books come some time this week.
This would be really sad for the newcomers that might only know 4th edition
Yes, because 4e has been out long enough for this to happen.
Yes, because 4e has been out long enough for this to happen.
I agree with Skrap-San's point, though. For now, this is the single Eberron board we've got on Gleemax. I'd like to see it serve as a useful resource to all Eberron players regardless of what edition they happen to be playing. The fluff of the world isn't changing: a discussion about the religion of Riedra or the structure of the Aurum is just as relevant for a 4E player as it is for a 3E player. Threads dealing purely with mechanics can easily identify their edition in the title: 4E - New Warforged Feats.
I've made these boards my primary home online because I want this to be a strong resource for Eberron players, and I hope to see that continue. If it just becomes one more bitter partisan battleground, I'll probably move on.
This isn't a 3E Eberron board or a 4E Eberron board; it's the Eberron board. I hope we can preserve that, and that people on both sides of the edition fence can save any hard feelings they have for other boards.
A thing that would make me sad is if the forum we allowed this part of the internet to become yet another one of those places were we scream and ravage over what edition of the setting was the best.
I am in total agreement with this, and what our illustrious Hellcow just said. This is the presence of Eberron on the internet. We've been able, for as long as I can remember (as a member or lurker) kept mostly away from the rage driven drivel that I have seen develop throughout the rest of the boards, and I desperately hope it stays as such. The fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter if your playing 3, 3.5, 4 or any variation of the kind. What matters is we are playing EBERRON, and that is the common denominator that unites us, more so then many others on the boards. So, what ever questions or concerns pop up on here that I can contribute to I will always try, no matter the system. Heck, if someone says they are adapting Eberron to Gurps, Heroes Unlimited or Rifts , I'll do my best to help out there too. I guess when it comes down to it, I've developed more of a loyalty to the setting then the system, and with the way things sometimes go, it seems like the more logical thing to do at times. ;)
Heck, if someone says they are adapting Eberron to Gurps, Heroes Unlimited or Rifts , I'll do my best to help out there too.
Personally, I've run Eberron using Over the Edge rules in the past. I know of others who have used GURPs rules. In the long run, OTE didn't work very well when the adventure involved a signifcant amount of combat, but it was still a good match to the original scenario and the people involved.
And needless to say, Over The Edge didn't make my Eberron collection obsolete. ;)
Personally, I've run Eberron using Over the Edge rules in the past. I know of others who have used GURPs rules.
Note to self: Run a campaign set during the Silver Flame's Lycanthropic Purge, using White Wolf's Werewolf system. Alternately, use the Hunter rules to let the PCs play Silver Flame crusaders...
Note to self: Run a campaign set during the Silver Flame's Lycanthropic Purge...
I've long intended to run a game set during the Purge, though I've never been able to decide whether to base it around a unit of SF soldiers or a group of innocent 'thropes caught in between (and trying to resist the growing call of darkness).
YES, I dumped them cuz no 4th ed hater was gonna have a chance to make a comment about buying my books cheap and thanking me for it. Good riddance 3.5, hello Eberron 4th Edition. Man I love Eberron!
EK
Meanwhile, there's things I like about 4E - skill challenges, the way disease is handled - that can easily be converted back into 3E. There's certainly ideas in the DMG that could be useful to any campaign, even if you don't plan to play 4E.
I've got every edition of D&D on my shelves, and in fact I've been tinkering with AD&D recently. As a game designer, it's certainly useful to study lots of systems... and I hope to do more work for Pathfinder in the future. I don't have to choose between 3E and 4E. Of course, I've got a lot of space on my bookshelves. If you've got small space, small budget, or you just don't like a system, I understand the impulse to clear some room... whether that's selling 3E books or that copy of 3rd Edition GURPS.
In any case, I think the question posed by the OP has been answered, so I'm moving on.
You know, I would make some smartass comment about this, but its people like you that are letting me finish off my 3e collection dirty cheap. So yes, jump ship, abandon the system that you've been playing for years just because the new flavor of the month is out. Just makes my life that much easier.
*shrug* and its people like you that let me recoup 85% of my original expenditure. See, it's win/win!
I only sold Crunch books like the now-useless Monster Manuals and Complete Warrior and Psionics. I kept campaign setting books and adventures and anything fluffy I could convert. 3.5 was a good system and served its purpose but my binder full of house rules was getting rather tiresome. I have Star Wars RPG books from EVERY edition, I have D&D books from EVERY edition. But I dont' see the need to keep the rules-heavy splatbooks for a game that has been upgraded to a new edition. I live in a small apartment and even shelf-space is at a premium. Basically if it was 75% fnew classes, feats, spells, and magic items, it got Ebayed. If it contained world lore, setting info, or monster ecology type stuff, it gets saved, cause that stuff is always handy, no matter the edition.
Still I have to agree Eberron books will not be obsolete even Magic of Eberron the most mechanic heavy book, has a fair amount of fluff in it.
Actually I'm going to be giving mine to the library except fluff heavy books. So Eberron books stay, Fiendish codexs, etc. Books that will go completes, basic 3, possible MM3 & 5 (not certain cause they have monsters I might update).
Still I have to agree Eberron books will not be obsolete even Magic of Eberron the most mechanic heavy book, has a fair amount of fluff in it.
You're lucky, I wish I could do that. I live in the Bible Belt so if I'd walked into a libray carrying a box of D&D books, I'd have been lynched for trying to corrupt children with my "satanic" ways. I was shocked when I found out the college's InterLibrary Loan office coud actually get D&D books from other college libraries (i saw a guy pick up the Eberron Campaign Setting book from the ILL office one day :D We talked for 20 min on the setting, it was awesome). I hate living in the sticks.
You're lucky, I wish I could do that. I live in the Bible Belt so if I'd walked into a libray carrying a box of D&D books, I'd have been lynched for trying to corrupt children with my "satanic" ways. I was shocked when I found out the college's InterLibrary Loan office coud actually get D&D books from other college libraries (i saw a guy pick up the Eberron Campaign Setting book from the ILL office one day :D We talked for 20 min on the setting, it was awesome). I hate living in the sticks.
Bah, I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt. I go to church every week, and I drive by not one, not two, not three, but *FIVE* different churches before I get to mine. One of which I can literally stand in my church's parking lot, and hit the other one with a thrown rock.
I've taken my D&D books to sunday school to read while I wait for everyone else to get there (I usually get there early). Heck, my library doesn't even carry D&D books because people keep "forgetting" to bring them back.
And hey, best case scenario for you, they do come down on you and burn your books and mistreat you. God help them for all the lawsuits you can bring down, likely with no cost to you by calling the ACLU to have them combat religious descrimination against you. They eat that stuff up.
A thing that would make me sad is if the forum we allowed this part of the internet to become yet another one of those places were we scream and ravage over what edition of the setting was the best. This would be really sad for the newcomers that might only know 4th edition and then gets yelled at for being stupid morons who only support a money grabbing evil corporation. The very same company that we gave tons of money too just so they would give us a new book. I spent a few years feeling I was playing an inferior rules sett when I first started playing (started with 3.5). But eventually I got over it and I figured that this is all about fun and games, nothing else. And that is what it should be for all the new people that show up too, not an eternal struggle over what part of it that is most true to our ideals.
And seeing how I love both systems, I will keep my 3rd ed books in the shelf next to my 4th ed books. And every time someone asks if we should take a short session of D&D I will simply ask "3rd or 4th?" And that is all there really is too it.
I only wished more people were as calm and reasonable as you. If you take a look at the FR boards over here, they are already in a state like you described.
You get jumped at by a flock of elitist guys who believe they are the only true source of "FR lore" and that WotC was destroying "their" game. 
And god (or Torm, or the Silver Flame, or ...) help you if you mention that you like 4E or the 4E realms.
As for myself, I'm curious about how the 4E ECS turns out, and what - if anything - gets changed.
I thank you for the kind words.
If you take a look at the FR boards over here, they are already in a state like you described.
Well the FR forums have had this switch once before. So they have plenty of practice :P No offence meant.
As for myself, I'm curious about how the 4E ECS turns out, and what - if anything - gets changed.
I really like what 4th ed does and I look forward to the ECS too.
[...] I really like what 4th ed does and I look forward to the ECS too.
Although I'm not currently playing in an Eberron game, I'm sort of interested how the 4E ECS is going to handle the Eberron specific stuff.
What will the Artificer class look like (if it doesn't appear in a Dragon article before the ECS)?
Are we going to see more rituals (e.g. for creating living spells, or for an airship), or are those just getting rolled into "Enhance Item"?
I'm currently more interested in the crunchy bits, as the flavor will most likely not change by a large margin (as Mr. Baker has already mentioned in theis thread).
The warforged from the Dragon article actually looked quite good, so I'm really interested in the other things as well.
Personally I would just stick with the books you have now. At some point WotC will probably release 4e books for Forgotten Realms and Eberron. You can switch you library over to 4e then, if you want to.
But don’t think that if you don’t switch over that you will be the only one. Plenty of players are planning to stick with 3.5.
- Until conversions come out, the Eberron source materials are still dancing cheek-by-jowl with the ThirdandaHalf Edition rules.
- My first impression of Fourth Edition is "that bastard child of roleplaying and slot-car racing." Note that I said "first impression," and that may be negated over time. And test-characters.
Ultimately, the point is that just because a new edition is out doesn't make the old edition any more broken than it was.
Ultimately, the point is that just because a new edition is out doesn't make the old edition any more broken than it was.
Amen to that. I actually found myself in a conversation today hailing the praises of the wizard class in 3.5. Mind you, a year ago, I was decrying the depths of abject humiliation one must endure to be a wizard in 3.5, go figure? :D
All 3.x books are now obsolete.
When I run an Eberron game I'm considering buying Sharn: City of Towers. Once I get the ECS in my hands I'll also ask around to see what other 3.5 books are worth getting. So no, I don't think they're obsolete.
And HermitIX I was going to yell and scream at you for being wrong, but then I figured that we just have a different defination of the word obsolete, at least I think we do. It would seem that you think that if the mechanics are useless it's obsolete, and the fluff don't enter into it. Weras my definition is that it is only obsolete if you cant use anything at all from the book. This definition actually makes some of the Complete books usable still (cool organisations etc.) So I think we actually agree, and if we don't lets start screaming ;) (Not sure why I reacted to your post, but I did, hope you won't take ofence).
If you take a look at the FR boards over here, they are already in a state like you described.
And god (or Torm, or the Silver Flame, or ...) help you if you mention that you like 4E or the 4E realms.
As for myself, I'm curious about how the 4E ECS turns out, and what - if anything - gets changed.
It will be interesting. I have to confess I am I suppose one of the 'elitists' - although I won't go into my objections here. If people like 4th Ed, good for them. For now I see no reason to change.
[...] For now I see no reason to change.
And that's perfectly ok with me.
However, what's not ok with me are the people decrying 4E as the rpg armageddon, that nothing good can ever come from 4E, that 4E is just pnp-WoW, and that everyone supporting WotC was automatically a "f4n4tic", a "f4nboi" (yes, they didn't even bother with correct spelling in their baitings
), or some that implied that we were to dumb, to restricted, or to ignorant to play "real DnD".This is where I sometimes almost wished to punch someone really hard. :P
If someone doesn't like 4E, that's his or her personal opinion and I don't have any problem with that. But then, please, they shouldn't repeatedly post the same flawed statements and flamebaits in the 4E section of the boards, but rather stay in the 3.5 section if they find 4E so horribly bad that they can't stand it.
However, what's not ok with me are the people decrying 4E as the rpg armageddon, that nothing good can ever come from 4E, that 4E is just pnp-WoW, and that everyone supporting WotC was automatically a "f4n4tic", a "f4nboi" (yes, they didn't even bother with correct spelling in their baitings
Thats nothing new, I still like saying that THAC0 was the IQ test we used to keep stupid people out of the game back in 2e. Yes, somebody is going to come along and take that personally because they don't realize its a good humored joke, but thats their problem.
If someone doesn't like 4E, that's his or her personal opinion and I don't have any problem with that. But then, please, they shouldn't repeatedly post the same flawed statements and flamebaits in the 4E section of the boards, but rather stay in the 3.5 section if they find 4E so horribly bad that they can't stand it.
Except that the Eberron boards are for both 3e and 4e discussion. Saying why you don't like 4e in regards to what it does to Eberron is every bit as much on topic here as threads on how to convert the Artificer to 4e.
Trust me, if they split the Eberron boards into 3e Eberron and 4e Eberron, I'll happily go to the 3e boards and never darken 4Eberron's doorstep again.
As is, my days on this board are numbered. The more 4e it leans, the less I can stand to be here. Soon as 4e becomes the default here, I'm gone.
TAs is, my days on this board are numbered. The more 4e it leans, the less I can stand to be here. Soon as 4e becomes the default here, I'm gone.
I'm sorry to hear that. I've always valued your passion for the setting, even when it's manifested as calls to put duct tape over the sidebars in the PGtE. Personally, I'd like to see these boards as a resource for Eberron players regardless of system. You mentioned before that you'd be happy to drop 3E as soon as you'd converted things to M&M. I've played Eberron using Over The Edge rules in the past - precisely because it's by go-to system when I want a truly classless, story-driven game. I know people who are using GURPS and Castles & Crusades to play it... and it's not like there's been a lot of threads supporting OTE or GURPS mechanics. But a thread on Taer Valaestas stands to be useful for either, as does a discussion of the nature of gods.
So despite our differences over 4E, I've always respected your opinions on Eberron, and I'll be sorry to see you go. Thanks for the energy you've put into the boards in the past.
Funny, I dumped all my 3.5 books in the trash except my Eberron books, just cuz of all the fluff I can use in 4th Edition.
YES, I dumped them cuz no 4th ed hater was gonna have a chance to make a comment about buying my books cheap and thanking me for it.
I hope that was just a snarky comment. Trashed books make me sad. Yes, books are like puppies to me.
As for calling 3.5 obsolete I have to disagree, even when it comes to mechanics : there may be a 3.5 feat which is just what you want for your character and that you can adapt to 4E (or a PrC transformed into a Paragon Path...). It will take a long time for the 4E mechanics to become as rich as the 3.5E ones.
I'm in the crowd that will be playing both 3.5E and 4E - if I get my say, at least.
It's like buying a new car. Sure, it smells nice. But the seats feel funny. The handling's too tight. The controls aren't where you're used to them.
After a while, you start getting used to it. Maybe a few after-market sourcebooks make it fit the way you drive a little better. And it becomes just another ride that you're happy with. You may still have fond memories of the last, but you become perfectly content to tool around in the existing one.
Wait. *perk* GURPS Eberron...?