Hi everyone! I'm looking for your ideas and opinions on using races in our favourite setting, perhapts adapting their lore a bit (or even a lot). Here are some of my thoughts. In some cases I really can't decide how I should use them and definitely need the community;s feedback.
Azer: Obviously the core lore won't do. But how should they be used? I'm considering three different versions:
a) ignore the dwarf aspect entirely. In this version the azer race was born in the depths of Khyber, not unlike the medusas. The spawn of Fernia, their role is otherwise the same as in core cosmology.
b) Small numbers of Azer live near the Fist of Onatar. Were they blessed by the god of Fire and Forge himself or are they simply the product of rampant elelmental magic, perhaps not unlike the Genasi?
c) A variation of b): they are the Noldrun, the lost dwarven clan, now resurfacing. What happened to them and why? Will they take their former position in the Mror Holds? Do they even want to? Are they still dwarves?
Barghest: Change "Bane" to "Dark Six" amd their MM2 lore works wonderfuuly for Darguun clans, the Marguul and, of course, Droaam. I wonder about their place in Dakhaani society though. Soldiers of the empire in special forces, a hidden weapon honoured by the dar and feared by their enemies? Or monsters that were purged, perhaps more than once in the empire's long history? Or a combination of both(those who won't serve the emprie are monsters and should be hunted)?
Djinn: In core, people of the Elemental Chaos. Should they be spawn of the Cahos of Khyber respectively? I don't think so(beside, the Godswar scenarion doesn't suit here0. I believe that their plane of origin should be a different one. I considered Lamannia but, in the end, their "folklorish", magical nature, their appearance in many myths and legends, their fantastic magical castles and numerous other wonders made me choose Thelanis.
Drider: Lesser Scarrow, children of Vulkoor? Or horrors created by mad fleshshapers of Khyber to plague their Umbragen enemies(the Drow version of dolgaunts and Dolgrims) that spread all over Xen'drik and forgot their own roots?
Star Spawn: Let's see...The star spawn are creatures sent by the baleful stars of the night sky, accursed celestial objects that gaze upon the world with a mixture of hatred, anger, and hunger.
a)Should they be used as written?
b)Are the star entities forces of Xoriat a.k.a. the Far Realm?
c) Hatred, hunger, anger...Are they creatures of Mabar and the dying stars parts of the Eternal Night themselves, always seeking to devour all light?
I slightly favour the latter version but I keep changing my mind...
So, that's it for now. Please offer your opinions, ideas, criticisms and above all, your own adaptations for Eberron!
Hi everyone! I'm looking for your ideas and opinions on using races in our favourite setting, perhapts adapting their lore a bit (or even a lot). Here are some of my thoughts. In some cases I really can't decide how I should use them and definitely need the community;s feedback.
Azer: Obviously the core lore won't do. But how should they be used? I'm considering three different versions:
a) ignore the dwarf aspect entirely. In this version the azer race was born in the depths of Khyber, not unlike the medusas. The spawn of Fernia, their role is otherwise the same as in core cosmology.
b) Small numbers of Azer live near the Fist of Onatar. Were they blessed by the god of Fire and Forge himself or are they simply the product of rampant elelmental magic, perhaps not unlike the Genasi?
c) A variation of b): they are the Noldrun, the lost dwarven clan, now resurfacing. What happened to them and why? Will they take their former position in the Mror Holds? Do they even want to? Are they still dwarves?
Barghest: Change "Bane" to "Dark Six" amd their MM2 lore works wonderfuuly for Darguun clans, the Marguul and, of course, Droaam. I wonder about their place in Dakhaani society though. Soldiers of the empire in special forces, a hidden weapon honoured by the dar and feared by their enemies? Or monsters that were purged, perhaps more than once in the empire's long history? Or a combination of both(those who won't serve the emprie are monsters and should be hunted)?
Djinn: In core, people of the Elemental Chaos. Should they be spawn of the Cahos of Khyber respectively? I don't think so(beside, the Godswar scenarion doesn't suit here0. I believe that their plane of origin should be a different one. I considered Lamannia but, in the end, their "folklorish", magical nature, their appearance in many myths and legends, their fantastic magical castles and numerous other wonders made me choose Thelanis.Drider: Lesser Scarrow, children of Vulkoor? Or horrors created by mad fleshshapers of Khyber to plague their Umbragen enemies(the Drow version of dolgaunts and Dolgrims) that spread all over Xen'drik and forgot their own roots?
Star Spawn: Let's see...The star spawn are creatures sent by the baleful stars of the night sky, accursed celestial objects that gaze upon the world with a mixture of hatred, anger, and hunger.
a)Should they be used as written?
b)Are the star entities forces of Xoriat a.k.a. the Far Realm?
c) Hatred, hunger, anger...Are they creatures of Mabar and the dying stars parts of the Eternal Night themselves, always seeking to devour all light?
I slightly favour the latter version but I keep changing my mind...
So, that's it for now. Please offer your opinions, ideas, criticisms and above all, your own adaptations for Eberron!
Well, Barghest could simply be a goblinoid version of Lyncanthropes, but other than that, I'd say C, Children of Vulkoor, and have the Star Spawn be from Xoriat.
Can't help you on the Djinn, though.
Regarding the - Star Spawn, some ideas on this thread.
Why couldn't azer have been/still be slaves of giants? Sure, not all dwarves have been as in the core setting, but that does not mean it does not work for azer (or galeb duhr for that matter).
Why couldn't azer have been/still be slaves of giants? Sure, not all dwarves have been as in the core setting, but that does not mean it does not work for azer (or galeb duhr for that matter).
That implies that the dwarves had migrated from Frostfell to Khorvaire (and Sarlona for that matter)on the Age of Giants(and were around millennia before goblinoids, orcs and halflings, the continent's native races) and were enslaved by Giant colonists in great numbers. Besides, the core story overlaps a lot with the elven rebellion( another slave race, another mass uprising...and then the dwarves escaped form Khorvaire...to Khorvaire? And how would they be able to rebel anway?). That niche is already taken.
Another possibility for the Azer is that, perhaps, they are survivors of the ancient dwarf kingdom under the Ironroot mountains. Facing utter annhilation at the hands of the Daelkyr, these dwarves reluctantly chose to swear fealty to a powerful demon overlord of fire to survive the onslaught. Survive they did, but they've been reduced to a fate worse than death -- they've become eternal slaves of this overlord, forever corrupted by his hold on them.
I like the idea of the baleful stars of the night sky being stars of worlds previously taken over by Daelkyr. Part of the background of the Daelkyr is that they consider corrupting worlds an art form, so they must have done it many times before their failed attempt at shaping Eberron.
Perhaps they don't merely stop at the world, but also the stars themselves. Maybe it's just one specific daelkyr with a star fetish (heliophile?), that likes to invent unique ways to corrupt each star he encounters.
You can also check out 3.5E Eberron Campaign Setting. I believe most of the races listed here have been assigned to one of the surrounding planes, except for the Starspawns, which I'd personally say are dwellers of Xoriat.
You can also check out 3.5E Eberron Campaign Setting. I believe most of the races listed here have been assigned to one of the surrounding planes, except for the Starspawns, which I'd personally say are dwellers of Xoriat.
Yes, I remember, but
I) Azers were natives of the 3.5 Fernia, which was not a part of the Chaos of Khyber, just because they were creatures of fire. No real background. I've put it under a) and looked for alternatives.
II)The barghest is a different, non-extraplanar creature now.
III) The Djinn lived in different planes as per elements exactly like the core Genies. It never made sense to me. The air-like genies were IIRC creatures of Lammania...and as I've already stated, I don't believe that they belong to the plane of wilderness.
IV)Driders had never been extraplanar. I just prefer them as creations of the daelkyr to random aberrations.
I like the idea of the baleful stars of the night sky being stars of worlds previously taken over by Daelkyr. Part of the background of the Daelkyr is that they consider corrupting worlds an art form, so they must have done it many times before their failed attempt at shaping Eberron.
Perhaps they don't merely stop at the world, but also the stars themselves. Maybe it's just one specific daelkyr with a star fetish (heliophile?), that likes to invent unique ways to corrupt each star he encounters.
I didn't consider anything like that. It makes lots of sense. An astrophile(literally heliophile=sun lover/admirer so it works too) daelkyr lord? Very intriguing. I might adopt this.
Another possibility for the Azer is that, perhaps, they are survivors of the ancient dwarf kingdom under the Ironroot mountains. Facing utter annhilation at the hands of the Daelkyr, these dwarves reluctantly chose to swear fealty to a powerful demon overlord of fire to survive the onslaught. Survive they did, but they've been reduced to a fate worse than death -- they've become eternal slaves of this overlord, forever corrupted by his hold on them.
An excellent option.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, everyone! Keep your ideas and observations coming!
That implies that the dwarves had migrated from Frostfell to Khorvaire (and Sarlona for that matter)on the Age of Giants(and were around millennia before goblinoids, orcs and halflings, the continent's native races) and were enslaved by Giant colonists in great numbers. Besides, the core story overlaps a lot with the elven rebellion( another slave race, another mass uprising...and then the dwarves escaped form Khorvaire...to Khorvaire? And how would they be able to rebel anway?). That niche is already taken.
I don't see the relation between the migration from the dwarves from Frostfell to Khorvaire and the Age of Giants. Khorvaire and the giants have little to do with one another - at least the only reference that might even hint at a giant presence in Khorvaire that I know off is that of the feyspire in the Lazaar Principalities. Elves and eladrin were also not enslaved on Khorvaire. It would be a real simple story that the giants captured some of them on Frostfell (and we don't even know for sure whether the dwarves came from Frostfell or even if they came from another region before that) and created the azur and galeb duhr from that stock. Of course, it is not particular original and it gives those dwarves a same origin as the elves, but then again, azer never have been particular interesting to me. In 4E though they make perfect slaves of fire giants.
That implies that the dwarves had migrated from Frostfell to Khorvaire (and Sarlona for that matter)on the Age of Giants(and were around millennia before goblinoids, orcs and halflings, the continent's native races) and were enslaved by Giant colonists in great numbers. Besides, the core story overlaps a lot with the elven rebellion( another slave race, another mass uprising...and then the dwarves escaped form Khorvaire...to Khorvaire? And how would they be able to rebel anway?). That niche is already taken.
I don't see the relation between the migration from the dwarves from Frostfell to Khorvaire and the Age of Giants. Khorvaire and the giants have little to do with one another - at least the only reference that might even hint at a giant presence in Khorvaire that I know off is that of the feyspire in the Lazaar Principalities. Elves and eladrin were also not enslaved on Khorvaire. It would be a real simple story that the giants captured some of them on Frostfell (and we don't even know for sure whether the dwarves came from Frostfell or even if they came from another region before that) and created the azur and galeb duhr from that stock. Of course, it is not particular original and it gives those dwarves a same origin as the elves, but then again, azer never have been particular interesting to me. In 4E though they make perfect slaves of fire giants.
Simple story? Well, a giant presence on Frostfell of all places significant enough to enslave enough dwarves to create two races sounds a little too farfetched to me, especially when even their presence on Khorvaire was minor. And they supposedly moved all those azers and galeb duhrs to Xen'drik? But not any dwarves? Sorry, I'm not convinced. Besides, we all know what it took foe elves to gain the freedom-are we going to create another saga, a dwarven one?
and we don't even know for sure whether the dwarves came from Frostfell
Sure we do(EPG p.35).
In 4E though they make perfect slaves of fire giants
Because they're fiery? It's a differnt cosmology in Core.And galeb-duhrs are creatures of the same element as the stone giants...should we expect that all these elementally correct slaves were used besides the elves and the drow? Please notice that the brutal core Giants were born in the Elemental Chaos, not in the material plane and took the elements of their respective elemental birthplaces. Sometimes the core assumptions do not work. Maybe if the azers were stripped of their dwarven part and were treated as creatures born on Fernia it would make more sense for Fire Giants to use them, if you really want to employ them that way.
Eh...that's all. I hope it didn't come out as aggressive.
Unless I am completely misremembering those sources tell that most suspect/think that the dwarves come from Frostfell, but that there is no evidence eitherway. The dwarves in the Mror Holds came from an ancient dwarf kingdom in Khyber and they have little evidence on where they came from. Also note that there is no source material excluding the existence of native dwarves to Xen'drik. Many different races live there and the continent is hardly explored both IC and in the game books. Besides, something chased those dwarves from Frostfell 
No existing history excludes azers and galeb duhr as former dwarf slaves. Mind you, I am not arguing that you cannot have your own versions. That would be silly. I am arguing that no core material in Eberron excludes the core explenation for the existence of Azer. It is not as if the azer are as common as elves and drow. The dwarves were definitely not the primary slaves. As for changing their nature, the giants did exactly that with eladrin and the drow serving the fire giants have also been changed by the relation.
Don't worry about sounding aggresive. You don't
Unless I am completely misremembering those sources tell that most suspect/think that the dwarves come from Frostfell, but that there is no evidence eitherway. The dwarves in the Mror Holds came from an ancient dwarf kingdom in Khyber and they have little evidence on where they came from. Also note that there is no source material excluding the existence of native dwarves to Xen'drik. Many different races live there and the continent is hardly explored both IC and in the game books. Besides, something chased those dwarves from Frostfell
No existing history excludes azers and galeb duhr as former dwarf slaves. Mind you, I am not arguing that you cannot have your own versions. That would be silly. I am arguing that no core material in Eberron excludes the core explenation for the existence of Azer. It is not as if the azer are as common as elves and drow. The dwarves were definitely not the primary slaves. As for changing their nature, the giants did exactly that with eladrin and the drow serving the fire giants have also been changed by the relation.
Don't worry about sounding aggresive. You don't
Oh, you mean the dragonshard. I suspect that the Kingdom came later(otherwise, it's hard to explain the dwarven appearance in Sarlona). Furthermore, I doubt that the dwarves are so mistaken that they believe their birthplace was Frostfell but it actually was Xen'drik. At least there are theories and legends about the former. There's nothing that points at that direction-nothing. Shouldn't at least the elves be aware of it, even if we assumed that the dwarves forgot? Ands somthing so big as a mass dwarven exodus would be hard to forget.
Somehow, I suspect that this is going nowhere and we'll have to agree to disagree
.I agree on the agree to disagree, but I feel I am not making myself clear. You are somehow assuming that enslavement by giants would exclude coming from Frostfell or that I am assuming big enough numbers for the elves to remember/care. Neither is true.
All I am saying is: It is not a stretch to assume the giants visited Frostfell, and on those trips they might very well have enslaved dwarves*. They might have modified these. The numbers would be low, or in areas were the giants did not use elf slaves. We are talking about millenia, even elf memories do not go that far. So as long as the numbers are low, and the regions specialized, the fact that it is mentioned nowhere does not say a thing.
* Assuming of course, you do not like another alternative, the dwarves were slaves in regions were there were little to no elf slaves who fled to Frostfell at the fall of the giant kingdoms.
I agree on the agree to disagree, but I feel I am not making myself clear. You are somehow assuming that enslavement by giants would exclude coming from Frostfell or that I am assuming big enough numbers for the elves to remember/care. Neither is true.
All I am saying is: It is not a stretch to assume the giants visited Frostfell, and on those trips they might very well have enslaved dwarves*. They might have modified these. The numbers would be low, or in areas were the giants did not use elf slaves. We are talking about millenia, even elf memories do not go that far. So as long as the numbers are low, and the regions specialized, the fact that it is mentioned nowhere does not say a thing.
Oh, I see. So, the creation of the azer and galeb-dhur races began in Frostfell? As long as it keeps dwarves away from Xen'drik I could accept that.
* Assuming of course, you do not like another alternative, the dwarves were slaves in regions were there were little to no elf slaves who fled to Frostfell at the fall of the giant kingdoms.
Now, that's unacceptable
So, let's talk about the Steel Predator.
Obviously its core story won't do(Machination of Bane). Here are some random ideas:
1) Retaining the god-like creator, Steel Predators were created by the fiends of the Age of Demons and are some of the favourite tools of the council of Ashtakala.
2) It is unclear who created the firt Steel Predators, but now fiendish and dark angelic armies on Shavarath occasionally use these powerful constructs. For an admittedly weird twist, they are native to the plane-the armies often try to capture and"domesticate" Steel Predators, then set them at enemy commanders.
3) A nightmarish invention of House Cannith during the Last War. They are few, difficult to control and incredibly expensive.
4) They were designed and created by a religious figure alright...a dark messianic one. The Steel Predators are children of the Lord of Blades and often hunt at the Mournlands or beyond.
So, any thoughts on this one?
So, let's talk about the Steel Predator.
Obviously its core story won't do(Machination of Bane). Here are some random ideas:
1) Retaining the god-like creator, Steel Predators were created by the fiends of the Age of Demons and are some of the favourite tools of the council of Ashtakala.
2) It is unclear who created the firt Steel Predators, but now fiendish and dark angelic armies on Shavarath occasionally use these powerful constructs. For an admittedly weird twist, they are native to the plane-the armies often try to capture and"domesticate" Steel Predators, then set them at enemy commanders.
3) A nightmarish invention of House Cannith during the Last War. They are few, difficult to control and incredibly expensive.
4) They were designed and created by a religious figure alright...a dark messianic one. The Steel Predators are children of the Lord of Blades and often hunt at the Mournlands or beyond.
So, any thoughts on this one?
I like the Lord of Blades angle, personally.
I don't know about LoBster - Steel Predator have an anti-metal (anti-magical metal) theme to them.
Maybe a Daelkyr weapon or aberrant-creation against a planet of metallic constructs (Cybertron?).
Unless I'm reading it the wrong way, they hunger for magic, not necessarily metal. Very useful ability in a place were magic went rampant and wild.
I like your idea. In a world without flesh the daelkyr managed to bent living metal? And what could they create from warforged :raw materials"? Interesting indeed!
I think I like them best as odd native fauna of Shavarath. I'm keen on planar adventures, so I like to populate the planes with a variety of creatures to keep it interesting if the PCs ever go there. Like, Shavarath has the Angel/Devil/Demon war going on, sure, but adding a warped, war-themed ecology to the plane adds some depth to it, methinks.
Unless I'm reading it the wrong way, they hunger for magic, not necessarily metal. Very useful ability in a place were magic went rampant and wild.
The old "Fiend Folio" fluff emphasised the metal relation more then 4E MM2.
I think I like them best as odd native fauna of Shavarath. I'm keen on planar adventures, so I like to populate the planes with a variety of creatures to keep it interesting if the PCs ever go there. Like, Shavarath has the Angel/Devil/Demon war going on, sure, but adding a warped, war-themed ecology to the plane adds some depth to it, methinks.
The Steel Predator will be very effective against the Shavarath's Bladelings, a kind of Bladeling .vs. Predator 
Aren't the warforged old Quori creations? That or the giants. Regardless, just like warforged their origin might be on Xen'drik with perhaps a fool Cannith trying to recreate them. I also like the Lord of Blades input.