...anyways.
Most of the characters just need to adjust a bit of character background to make the switch. But one is a Cleric, and so has a bit more to think about.
He is a Tiefling Cleric of the Raven Queen, and I'm having trouble finding a good analogue for her in Eberron. All of the religions associated with death have two major issues:
- they're evil (not counting the Aerenal)
- they venerate the undead (the Raven Queen considers them to be an abomination, as does the character)
There is no god representing death in the Host (as they don't believe there's much use for a shepherd), and the silver flame is all wrong for this character's style.
.
I considered the Keeper. He has the "shepherd of the dead" aspect we're looking for, but he seems to embody undeath and the violation of the natural order. Not right for this character.
I considered the Blood of Vol, especially if the PC is from Karrnath, but am unsure about it. The death aspect seems to be more "everybody dies, so yay undeath!" than anything.
I am considering this alternative. It could work.
I am considering importing her full cloth, as an extraplanar being representing one aspect of the Keeper. Perhaps as an angel, or some other being, she actually shepherds dead souls. The host believes she only brings them to Dolurrh, while the faithful believe she brings souls to their final plane of existence (just as followers of the Keeper believe).
Opinions? Options I may have missed?
Thanks!
Granted, there are other issues that will have to be "dealt with" in a sense- the Shadar-kai and their "deal with death" being the most obvious- but depending on what direction you take your campaign it can be simple or complex. Simple answer- that's certainly the origin story/legend they *tell*, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. They're supposedly talking about an event that occurred thousands of years ago on the doorstep of a Plane that saps away memory- I'd be surprised if they were even in the ballpark with regard to what really went down. .
For a complex answer, you can get as specific as you want and be creative. If you want an actual being that manifests avatars and does all that meddling/fighting, go for it.
For things like the Shadar-Kai, it's not really an issue. The players will never delve all that deep into the race's background, after all. But I like your answer anyways.
Yes, some deities are considered more compassionate and associated with more benevolent aspects, but *ALL* of them control the world and *ALL* of them have to be dealt with.
Maybe you can have the player consider taking the entire Host/Six pantheon as their patron, and choosing to fight against undead by choosing anti-Undead powers and abilities. They may deal a lot with the Keeper, but that's because the Keeper controls undead. Just like someone who wants to avoid storms would pray to the Devourer... not that they like storms, but because storms lie in the Devourer's realm of influence.
I considered the Blood of Vol, especially if the PC is from Karrnath, but am unsure about it. The death aspect seems to be more "everybody dies, so yay undeath!" than anything.
I beg to differ
. The idea is more : "everybody dies, this is a tragic phenomenon, how can we beat death"? It is described much better by the Hellcow himself here.The undead who serve the faith are flawed martyrs( naturally that doesn't apply to Undead venerating the Keeper or, even worse, Katashka). Of course, when it comes to the Queen of Death and her inner circle it becomes another story. As for the "evil" part, It's as if there are two religions and only one is actually evil.Furthermore the official one came first(not in the same form maybe, but it did, millenia before Erandis was born). Of course, if you have decided that your character's concept requires loathing the state of undeath, all that is moot. If so, why don't you at least consider the Undying Court?
Alex has stated some good points too.
Pick something close and freely (mis-/re-)interpret the teachings to fit your personal view of the universe.
For that matter, since you don't need a god/gods to be divine in Eberron, just give your character a nontheistic belief that, in another world, would line up perfectly with the RQ's.
why don't you at least consider the Undying Court?
Hes a Tiefling not an elf (or is that not a limiting factor... I mean you can think of PC exceptions, still...)
Good suggestions, I also offer the Children of Winter as a possible matching faith for the Raven Queen.
Hes a Tiefling not an elf (or is that not a limiting factor... I mean you can think of PC exceptions, still...)
Good suggestions, I also offer the Children of Winter as a possible matching faith for the Raven Queen.
I don't believe that's a limiting factor. Eberron never had 'racial pantheons'. Anybody can have faith in any cause, just some may be more common than others.
I don't believe that's a limiting factor. Eberron never had 'racial pantheons'. Anybody can have faith in any cause, just some may be more common than others.
I suppose, although I see the Undying Court as one that's trickier to get into as a non-elf. You don't have the biological connection to the Court that the elves have, and even if you really want to learn about them, I'm not sure the Aerenei would trust your intentions or your faith enough to teach you.
It's not impossible. One of the players in my game is actually an eladrin cleric of the Undying Court; the backstory we cooked up is that he was kicked out of Thelanis for apparently arbitrary and unknown reasons, wound up on Aerenei, became particularly enchanted by their culture of ancestor worship, and convinced that his faith was strong and deserving of instruction. Of course, eladrin and elves actually do share common ancestors, even if said ancestors probably date back to before the formation of the Court, which made it easier to accept...
I suppose, although I see the Undying Court as one that's trickier to get into as a non-elf. You don't have the biological connection to the Court that the elves have, and even if you really want to learn about them, I'm not sure the Aerenei would trust your intentions or your faith enough to teach you.
You can believe in the Court's teachings, etc without being a member, though.
Beyond that, I think there's a lot to be said for the Children of Winter. They don't venerate death; they simply see it as an important, natural part of the cycle of life. As such, they despise undead, who are a horrible violation of the natural order. They believe in the great winter, and are prepared to help it come to pass, but because this is necessary for the coming spring; it's all about death and rebirth. They may be grim, but they make fine PCs and I've had a few in my games before. And there's no reason you'd have to be a druid to follow that faith.
I beg to differ
What's interesting is that the BoV and the Children of Winter are essentially opposites. The CoW believe that death is an important part of the natural order, while the BoV takes the position that ALL death is unnatural - that we all have the spark of divinity within, and that mortality exists to ensure that we never acheive that potential.
As Ellorin says, the rank and file of the BoV don't venerate undead as superior beings. Instead, they are martyrs. They have gained a measure of power and escaped the call of Dolurrh... but at the expense of being able to acheive the true potential of the Divinity Within (a concept Erandis herself embodies, with the fact that it's her undead state that prevents her from touching the full power of her dragonmark). They respect the undead champions of their faith, but most of the commonfolk of the BoV don't actually want to BE undead. On the other hand, they aren't like the Deathguard of the Undying Court, the Children of Winter, the followers of the Silver Flame, or the soldiers of Dol Arrah, all of whom consider undead to be abominations (Deathless aside in the case of the UC).
One that's been mentioned multiple times is the Watchful Rest. This sect venerates both Aureon and the Keeper, believing that the Keeper is not an evil deity, but rather preserves noble souls from dissolution in Dolurrh so that they can be returned to the world in a time of great need (they also maintain cemetaries, perform funerary rites, and so on). Their position on undeath has never been stated, but as the guy what created them in the first place, I don't see them as having any sort of sympathy for the undead. They believe that death is a part of the natural order of things. Heroes die; if they are needed, the Sovereigns of Light and Darkness will protect them until the time they are destined to return.
Oh, geez, that makes more sense. When I read that they believed the Keeper was "preserving noble souls", I figured that was the undeath aspect, where he was preserving them as Liches and such. That makes more sense, thanks!
Children of Winter was one I was considering suggesting to the player, but I needed to read more about. This puts it into a good light.
Thanks to all for your suggestions.
I just talked to the player and (since we're sorta switching campaigns here), he may be changing to a Sorcerer now that the PHB2 is out, so this may all be moot. But who knows what faith he'll follow, if any, so it may still be of use.
Thanks again for all the help, guys!
Is there reference to the Children of Winter in the 3.5 ECG? I don't remember reading about them.
There should be. They're a druid sect, so they're not listed alongside the other religions, I believe.
There should be. They're a druid sect, so they're not listed alongside the other religions, I believe.
Those frisky druids, they just think about sects, sects, sects all the time ... :D
I also offer the Children of Winter as a possible matching faith for the Raven Queen.
I agree. The Children of Winter would be a perfect choice. If I was to make a conversion between the to this choice would be it.
I don't think Kaius has any aspirations to replace Vol as the leader of the faith though.
Now, another question is how to deal with say, Death's Reach, where I believe the PCs end up meeting the Raven Queen? The Orcus vs. Raven Queen arch seems to need some significant tweaking for Eberron.
It would, yes. When I said I was splitting off into Eberron, though, I meant I was dropping the adventure path.
Though I think that scene is in the H1-E3 books anyways, while I was running the D&DI Scales of War path.
Either way.
Thanks once again for all the help, everyone!
Is there reference to the Children of Winter in the 3.5 ECG? I don't remember reading about them.
They are not actually mentioned within the religion subsection of ECS. Instead you'll want to jump to pg 74 for the Eldeen Ranger and a basic write-up on the differing sects. Apart from that, skip onto the Eldeen Reaches regional write-up, pg 170, for further material on the Children of Winter.
If you want a much more extensive and thorough block of text, I suggest Faiths of Eberron, pg 95, for more information on the Children of Winter.