Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 demondragonkinggav Sep 14, 2009 18:09:37	I was thinking of playing a drow character in the Eberron, and I saw mention that they can have an animistic culture so I was wondering how exactly animism worked in Eberron.     I was thinking that he would be a Wyvern Rider and have the Wyvern being considered as part of Vulkoor's aspect; but then I started to think that they would worship other spirits and wasn't sure exactly how to entail that into my drow character. So any advice would be welcome on how to round out my drow character.  I was also thinking that he would have a use name and a true name with a shaman that reveals the true name or that maybe he has to quest to find his true name.  Like I said any advice would be welcome.
#2 dread_lord Sep 14, 2009 19:42:23	Well, the thing about animism is that its the belief that everything has a spirit and everything is alive. They wouldn't warship gods, really. There might be some spirits that are more powerful than others but everything is divine. The wyvren would be an aspect of The Wyvren, and that spirit might serve another that could be The Scorpion. But when the wyvren rider is praying for intervention he would probably ask The Wyvren unless he felt that the miracle would be too big for that totem. He might carry a wyvren stinger as a spiritual link to The Wyvren if that's his spirit guide and use it as a holy symbol. He might even dress up to look like a wyvren to be closer to his guide and so that other spirits will think he really is a wyvren so that evil spirits will flee before him and so spirits friendly to The Wyvren will help him. You could easily use the cleric class, or even a druid (if they exist in 4E yet). When the character casts a healing spell they would probably use more than just laying on hands and a holy symbol. The shaman could carry a jug of water from a spring whose spirit he had befriended and ask that spirit to heal hes friend as he poured the water over the wound. The various "medicines", such as that water, could easily take the place of the holy symbol and even any material components without a gp cost.
#3 ChrisTheS Sep 14, 2009 21:04:38	There's also a current of elementalism in their approach - the practice of elemental binding grew out of the Sulatar harnessing the spirits of the flame (which, unlike gnome binders, they continue to revere even as the elementals serve them), which probably derived from the ur-religion of the early drow.
#4 Hellcow Sep 14, 2009 22:40:51	There's also a current of elementalism in their approach - the practice of elemental binding grew out of the Sulatar harnessing the spirits of the flame (which, unlike gnome binders, they continue to revere even as the elementals serve them), which probably derived from the ur-religion of the early drow. One important question here is if there WERE "early drow". At least one form of the legend goes as follows. * The giants and titans of Xen'drik sack an eladrin feyspire and enslave its people. * Giant magebreeders create the elves from eladrin stock. * During the elvish uprising, the giants of the Sulat League create the drow by "binding the essence of night" to elven stock. The drow are intended to serve as assassins and soldiers against the rebellious elves - which is why they were considered enemies and not included in Aeren's exodus. The Sulat League specializes in binding, and its members are the first fire giants/titans, having experimented on themselves. * The giant-dragon conflict destroys the civilization of the Sulat League, which likely falls to the Durashka Tul. Some drow flee the cataclysm and take refuge in Khyber, becoming the Umbragen. Some turn on their masters, but nonetheless revert to savagery, either because of the Durashka Tul or simply the devastation wrought by the dragons. The Sulatar drow lay claim to the citadels of their former masters and adopt some of their magic, focusing on elemental binding and honing it in new ways over the course of thousands of years (so it's not that the giants did everything cool; they may have developed basic binding techniques, but the Sulatar have had generations to develop their own paths). So the Promise of Fire, the bond to the Umbra, and the traditions of the Vulkoori all developed in the aftermath of the dragon cataclysm. Now, all of the above is, of course, conjecture based on the legends told by the Sulatar and Qaltiar in the novels The Shattered Land and The Gates of Night. Perhaps all of it - the idea that drow and elf alike can trace their roots back to a fallen feyspire - could be a story spread among slaves by giant masters. You'll have to decide. As for Drow animism, per TSL and TGoN, the Qaltiar drow are an offshoot of the Vulkoori who revere many natural spirits, of which the Scorpion Vulkoor is only one. Others that are mentioned include Hul'drac the Shifting Panther (displacer beast) and cunning Kura'tra the Tilxin Bird, but these are simply supposed to be a few of many.
#5 ChrisTheS Sep 14, 2009 23:12:02	Even if the three cultures developed their defining characteristics in isolation, there's got to be some underlying commonality, even if it mostly comes from cross-pollination after the fact.  In spite of the fact that they all hate each other, of course, but enemies borrow from each others' cultures far more often than allies do.
#6 Hellcow Sep 14, 2009 23:29:46	Sure. They share a common origin, after all: they were created to be predators, and this is something that shines through all of their cultures on some level. And when it comes to enemies having things in common, hey, that's why we've got orcs speaking Goblin in Khorvaire. In terms of ross-pollination, the real outsiders are the Umbragen, who have been largely isolated from everyone elve for tens of thousands of years, which is a pretty $#%&ing long time even if you're an elf. My main point was that the drow didn't have a broad elemental-animism faith before the giants came along, because if you believe the story, there weren't any drow period until the giants came along; they were created during the elf-giant wars, and developed their unique cultures following the dragonfire cataclysm and the Durashka Tul.
#7 ChrisTheS Sep 15, 2009 0:06:19	I'm inclined to think that the eladrin stock themselves would be somewhat predisposed to animism - the defining characteristics of fey include a dedication to their essential nature, which more often than not has an environmental association (to the point that they so strongly identify with particular forces of nature that they consider themselves to embody them). Which is particularly interesting seen in light of the reverence of the Undying Court - the elven people having long since lost this direct connection to primal reality, their fascination with death and the sidestepping thereof takes on a sense of desperation to recover it and once more become a numinal being. (Admit it--you never thought you'd ever see people opining on the psychoanalysis of mysticism with regards to your setting, did you? :P ) And yes, I am tired and posting late at night.  My inner thesaurus goes into overdrive after 10 PM, as does my general capacity for abstract thought.
#8 demondragonkinggav Sep 15, 2009 12:12:03	Thanks for the replies.   I believe I have a better idea of how to fill out the religious portion of my drow character's background.   I was thinking that his tribe would have spirits that they revere such as a waterfall and the river it feeds into as spirits that are not far from their village in the mountain.  I was also contemplating them having a tribal ancestoral spirit that is also seen as the Spirit of the Mountain.  My thoughts on Vulkoor are that he is seen as a Wyvern Spirit/ Spirit of Strength and Battle due to the similarities of the scorpion stinger. I was wondering if the Drow animists would see the 13 Moons of Eberron as Spirits, since the Planes do have some influences over the world of Eberron?  And that "creatures or beings" from those planes are known by this particular tribe as the Children of that Particular Spirit.  And maybe even having a Folklore-esque myth/legend about how the 13th Moon vanished from the sky.  As well as any other spirits that would be important for mountain dwelling animists.
#9 ChrisTheS Sep 15, 2009 12:35:42	I was wondering if the Drow animists would see the 13 Moons of Eberron as Spirits I'm not sure that they would regard the moons/planes themselves as spirits, although as spirit realms definitely.  Manifest zones would be areas touched by the spirits, but I seem to recall a drow warrior being displaced to another plane and thinking of it as just another, albeit weird, place. And maybe even having a Folklore-esque myth/legend about how the 13th Moon vanished from the sky. Dunno... the actual history is pretty folkloresque, if it were rendered into legend it might just get bizarre.  Elves have long and uncannily accurate memories, and this particular aspect might be still rendered as part of an oral history (without the complicated metaphysics, of course).
#10 Hellcow Sep 16, 2009 18:02:53	Well, looking to The Shattered Land... "In the first days, the mighty ones enslaved the people of the land –"     "'Mighty ones'?" Daine asked.     "Giants," whispered Lakashtai. "Don't interrupt."     Shen'kar glared at Daine, then returned to the story. "In the first days, the mighty ones enslaved the people of the land. The overlords were great and powerful. Their size and strength alone would have made them masters of the earth, and they possessed deadly magicks as well. The mighty ones ruled for age upon age, until the time of terror, when madness struck the minds of the mighty and tore through the veil of the world itself."     Daine shot an inquiring glance at Lakashtai, and a second later her thoughts touched his. I believe he's talking about the invasion from Dal Quor. Even I know little of what the giants faced, but the battle would have taken place in both dreams and reality.     "… Host of horrors," Shen'kar was saying. "But the mighty ones were wise as well as strong. They plucked a moon from the sky, and used its power to force their foes into the darkness of the mind, where they were soon forgotten."     The giants defeated the quori by severing the ties between Eberron and Dal Quor, Lakashtai explained. Ever since then, it has been virtually impossible for anything to physically travel between the two planes.     And the moon? Daine thought.     Legends say there was a thirteenth moon that disappeared long ago. He seems to be blaming it on these giants. Now hush.     "… battle had left marks on the land and weakened the once-mighty overlords," Shen'kar continued. "Their slaves saw this weakness, and rose up against their cruel masters. Small and cunning were these people, and the great size of the overlords often proved a hindrance. So the wise among them took a troop of loyal slaves, and imbued them with the essence of night – with the power to shape darkness and see through its depths, the strength to resist magic and the courage to face it. And these dark soldiers and their children swore an oath to the overlords, promising to die in their service, and to bring death to all who stood against the masters."     "Which brings us to the Oathbreakers?" Daine said     Shen'kar clicked his tongue. "The masters used many tricks to bind my ancestors to their service. Magic, promises of immortality, threats. But the bravest children of night saw through these lies and turned against them. The pale slaves did not trust them, so they fought alone, battling the mighty and those slaves who remained in their service. And so it continued until the destruction of the land, the Wrathful Night that brought the masters low. Today we are the masters of the land. The mighty ones have been forced into savagery, and now they are our prey. The pale slaves fled in fear. But we are strong and wise. The spirits of the jungle guide us. The scorpion teaches us to hunt, to hide, to care for our young. They teach us to protect the land from those who would bring back the horrors of the past. The mighty ones. The outlanders. And the misguided children of night… the firebinders and their kin."     "Right. The firebinders. This whole discussion was so fascinating, I almost forgot it had a point." Daine sighed. "So at the risk of another lecture, what are the firebinders trying to do?"     "My ancestors turned away from the brutal masters, but the firebinders served them faithfully. The Wrathful Night stripped the masters of their knowledge, but the slaves escaped the disaster. We turned to the voices of the wild, but other of kind sought the knowledge of the mighty ones – the terrible secrets that have made them masters of flame." Do with that as you will, of course. Different drow tribes have different traditions, and the novels aren't canon. The Qaltiar are specifically called out as respecting a host of spirits, while many sourcebooks focus on the Vulkoori as solely following the scorpion. Beyond that, the Qaltiar are nomadic, bound by family as opposed to land, so they're coming from a different place than the mountain-village drow in any case. Looking to planes, the Qaltiar drow of The Dreaming Dark books have a general understanding of planes, based on the concept that it is possible in Eberron to actually wander into them under the right circumstances, but they don't use the same names as humans or have them all catalogued. They know there is a realm of fire that the Sulatar draw power from. They have a general concept of Dal Quor, although as drow don't sleep in 3E, they are presented as not understanding that it's a plane of dreams specifically. Xu'sasar sees Thelanis as a plane of the spirits, and isn't surprised to see Vulkoor there (though it's an open question as to whether she actually does, of course). However, Xu'sasar specifically mocks Lei's description of Dolurrh (which somewhat suggests that her tribe doesn't have a history of bringing people back from the dead). EDIT: No sblock tags makes Keith a sad Hellcow.
#11 d_gibb Sep 19, 2009 9:20:50	I first looked at that and thought that putting up that much text might be considered copyright infringement, but then I realized that the one who posted it was none other than the author. I love that you are active on the boards, and helping us make our games better, Mister Hellcow. I saw the Drow in Eberron as a race who was trying to make their own civilization on the shattered remains of their opressors and their own slave origin.  I loved the way the Vulkoori and the Sulatar were different and how they took different approaches to their society, both thinking the other was so fundamentally mistaken in their way of life. I want to bring them into my campaign pretty heavily when my group goes to Xen'drik on some relic hunts that I am peppering through the treasure parcels.  I love giving them adventure hooks instead of a pile of gold, so I give maps that might detail an old temple complex, or a broken sword with runes that might be reforged where it was created to make a powerful weapon...