Are Darguul Chainmasters Prominent? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Are Darguul Chainmasters Prominent?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Siberys
Feb 15, 2010 23:33:05
I'm writing some PPs, and I'd like to make a Goblinoid-focused one. Thanks to another poster hereabouts, chainmaster was suggested, and I decided to try for it, as I highly associate hobgoblins with chained weaponry. The only problem is, the only place I can find any mention of this is in "The City of Towers" (page 159; Daine fights one). Is this it? Are they mentioned anywhere else? If not, *how* did I end up assuming they were prominent?

Ta muut,
Siberys
#2
Hellcow
Feb 16, 2010 4:58:20 You likely picked up the idea from Races of Eberron, which includes the feat Darguun Mauler (providing benefits for use of chain weapons), or from this article:
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/2...
... which says, among other things, "The Dhakaani are also known for their use of chain weapons -- flails and spiked chains. Chain masters enjoy displaying their skills with trip and disarm attacks." You might also note that Ruus Dhakaan in the 4E ECG is outfitted with a spiked chain.

With that said, this is a DHAKAANI tradition. Some hobgoblins among the Ghaal'dar have pursued it in emulation of their ancient ancestors, hence the Darguun Mauler feat. But it's not tremendously common among the Ghaal'dar. So essentially, the PP would most likely be a Dhakaani tradition, found among the warriors of the Heirs of Dhakaan, and known by only a few exceptional Ghaal'dar. So yes, Daine runs into one in Malleon's Gate, and that tells you that HE'S the one to watch for, that he's really studied the old ways - while most of his companions are probably just going to stab you and beat you.
#3
RedRider
Feb 16, 2010 5:07:25 There's the Dragonshard Hiers of Dhakann, which could be helpful in writing flavour as well.
The Dhakaani are also known for their use of chain weapons -- flails and spiked chains. Chain masters enjoy displaying their skills with trip and disarm attacks.

Aside from that, maybe there was some mention in Races of Eberron or Forge of War.
#4
Madfox11
Feb 16, 2010 5:14:08 I would like to point out that Martial Power 2 actually contains both feats and a PP that focusses on fighting with spiked chains and flails. You might want to take a look at those for inspiration.
#5
Siberys
Feb 16, 2010 11:30:37 Hrm. It seems all of the PP ideas I can come up with are Dhakaani... Duur'kala, Sharaat'khesh, chain master... Not that that's a bad thing. Any good ideas for Ghaal'dar-based PPs?

Also, I can't seem to find anything good for Bugbears. So, they're barbarians. Dhakaani Bugbears are... disciplined barbarians. What else is there?
#6
Ogiwan
Feb 20, 2010 22:36:59 I don't know about you, but I would be scared crapless by a Dhakaani Bugbear, assuming that its a trained and disciplined soldier, and not a warrior.

Hmm. Ghaal'dar? Well........

I can see......Goblin skirmishers, either slingers or javliners. Also, gobbo warg/wolf riders.

Hobgoblin heavy infantry, and tiger riders.

Bugbear line-breakers.

*shrug*

To me, Ghaal'dar is less disciplined than Dhakaani. Kinda a blend between "soldier" and "warrior".
#7
Siberys
Feb 21, 2010 13:12:44 I suppose what I was getting at was that there's not a whole lot about Bugbears that's PP-worthy. I would be scared crapless by a Dhakaani bugbear, but their role in Dhakaani culture seems very one-dimensional.

I think I can give up on a Ghaal'dar PP - they'd take generic PPs based on their individual specialty, I guess.

Even the Dhakaani things can be represented by non-racial PPs

Duur'kala - War Chanter
Chainmaster - The chain-based PP from MP mentioned upthread
Sharaat'khesh - Name an assassin PP. It'll probably work

And so on and so forth
#8
Hellcow
Feb 22, 2010 18:28:34
I suppose what I was getting at was that there's not a whole lot about Bugbears that's PP-worthy. I would be scared crapless by a Dhakaani bugbear, but their role in Dhakaani culture seems very one-dimensional.

The hobgoblins are also scared crapless by Dhakaani bugbears (or at least were at some point in their history) which is exactly why their role in Dhakaani culture is so narrow. They are raised to be the vanguard and to believe that this is their purpose and path to glory. They are taught that their strength is the pillar that supports the empire, but that it is the place of the hobgoblins to guide it. And as they are focused on this to the exclusion of all else, they don't try to displace the chainmasters or Duur'kala. The bugbear seeks to be first in battle and last to fall, taking pride in the fear he spreads in his enemies.

Beyond this: Dhakaani Bugbears are the vanguard. They are shock troops and skirmishers. As such, they can be rangers as easily as barbarians. The barbarian is the wave that shatters the enemy line; the ranger is the warrior who moves ahead of the solid army, striking and fading away. This is also the role of the Taarka'khesh. But a bugbear can do it just as well.

So looking to some of the existing 4E PPs:
The Calm Fury (Primal Power) is, essentially, THE Dhakaani Bugbear Barbarian PP. Harnessed strength and fury instead of undisciplined rage. If you look purely to Eberron, I'd argue that this is exactly where this PP belongs; the Dhakaani are the culture where we've specifically called out barbarians as being disciplined instead of wild.

With that said, the Ancestral Weapon PP is fine from a flavor perspective; a barbarian with just a touch of Duur'kala, embodying the characteristics of a great bugbear champion of the past. The Dhakaani rever the great heroes of the Empire, so this is perfectly appropriate - though depending what the character did with it, they could be perceived as a threat by some of the Duur'kala.

The Twinclaw Slayer works fine for a Dhakaani Bugbear. Likewise, while not necessarily exciting, the Wildrunner is a fine PP for the swift skirmisher, seeking to outmanuever slower, more heavily armored foes.

For DB Rangers, I could see Blade Dancer or multiclassing Barbarian and taking Wildrunner (I haven't seen MP II, so I don't know what else might be there). Ruthless Punisher works well as a Dhakaani PP - as they would certainly train rangers to focus on humanoid foes - but in some ways it seems more like a Taarka'Khesh PP.

While many of these choices may not seem unique, the key about the Dhakaani is to focus on their skill, discipline, commitment to their cause, and the unity of the goblinoid species - each species serving its role as opposed to fighting with one another.

#9
Madfox11
Feb 23, 2010 3:27:57 MP2 focusses on the skirmisher ranger (one using thrown weapons and melee attacks) and to a lesser extend the beast master. I am sure there is something in there that works well with the bugbears since you describe them as skirmishers pur-sang.
#10
Ogiwan
Feb 28, 2010 13:46:41 Oh! Oh! Oh! Come up with a sinister-sounding Goblin war cry (with translation), and "assign" it as a name to a style of Goblin light cavalry.

Historical basis? Finnish Hackapelitta, so named from their battle cry, hakkaa päälle! Translation? HACK THEM DOWN!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Siberys Feb 15, 2010 23:33:05	I'm writing some PPs, and I'd like to make a Goblinoid-focused one. Thanks to another poster hereabouts, chainmaster was suggested, and I decided to try for it, as I highly associate hobgoblins with chained weaponry. The only problem is, the only place I can find any mention of this is in "The City of Towers" (page 159; Daine fights one). Is this it? Are they mentioned anywhere else? If not, how did I end up assuming they were prominent? Ta muut, Siberys
#2 Hellcow Feb 16, 2010 4:58:20	You likely picked up the idea from Races of Eberron, which includes the feat Darguun Mauler (providing benefits for use of chain weapons), or from this article: www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/2... ... which says, among other things, "The Dhakaani are also known for their use of chain weapons -- flails and spiked chains. Chain masters enjoy displaying their skills with trip and disarm attacks." You might also note that Ruus Dhakaan in the 4E ECG is outfitted with a spiked chain. With that said, this is a DHAKAANI tradition. Some hobgoblins among the Ghaal'dar have pursued it in emulation of their ancient ancestors, hence the Darguun Mauler feat. But it's not tremendously common among the Ghaal'dar. So essentially, the PP would most likely be a Dhakaani tradition, found among the warriors of the Heirs of Dhakaan, and known by only a few exceptional Ghaal'dar. So yes, Daine runs into one in Malleon's Gate, and that tells you that HE'S the one to watch for, that he's really studied the old ways - while most of his companions are probably just going to stab you and beat you.
#3 RedRider Feb 16, 2010 5:07:25	There's the Dragonshard Hiers of Dhakann, which could be helpful in writing flavour as well. The Dhakaani are also known for their use of chain weapons -- flails and spiked chains. Chain masters enjoy displaying their skills with trip and disarm attacks. Aside from that, maybe there was some mention in Races of Eberron or Forge of War.
#4 Madfox11 Feb 16, 2010 5:14:08	I would like to point out that Martial Power 2 actually contains both feats and a PP that focusses on fighting with spiked chains and flails. You might want to take a look at those for inspiration.
#5 Siberys Feb 16, 2010 11:30:37	Hrm. It seems all of the PP ideas I can come up with are Dhakaani... Duur'kala, Sharaat'khesh, chain master... Not that that's a bad thing. Any good ideas for Ghaal'dar-based PPs? Also, I can't seem to find anything good for Bugbears. So, they're barbarians. Dhakaani Bugbears are... disciplined barbarians. What else is there?
#6 Ogiwan Feb 20, 2010 22:36:59	I don't know about you, but I would be scared crapless by a Dhakaani Bugbear, assuming that its a trained and disciplined soldier, and not a warrior. Hmm. Ghaal'dar? Well........ I can see......Goblin skirmishers, either slingers or javliners. Also, gobbo warg/wolf riders. Hobgoblin heavy infantry, and tiger riders. Bugbear line-breakers. shrug To me, Ghaal'dar is less disciplined than Dhakaani. Kinda a blend between "soldier" and "warrior".
#7 Siberys Feb 21, 2010 13:12:44	I suppose what I was getting at was that there's not a whole lot about Bugbears that's PP-worthy. I would be scared crapless by a Dhakaani bugbear, but their role in Dhakaani culture seems very one-dimensional. I think I can give up on a Ghaal'dar PP - they'd take generic PPs based on their individual specialty, I guess. Even the Dhakaani things can be represented by non-racial PPs Duur'kala - War Chanter Chainmaster - The chain-based PP from MP mentioned upthread Sharaat'khesh - Name an assassin PP. It'll probably work And so on and so forth
#8 Hellcow Feb 22, 2010 18:28:34	I suppose what I was getting at was that there's not a whole lot about Bugbears that's PP-worthy. I would be scared crapless by a Dhakaani bugbear, but their role in Dhakaani culture seems very one-dimensional. The hobgoblins are also scared crapless by Dhakaani bugbears (or at least were at some point in their history) which is exactly why their role in Dhakaani culture is so narrow. They are raised to be the vanguard and to believe that this is their purpose and path to glory. They are taught that their strength is the pillar that supports the empire, but that it is the place of the hobgoblins to guide it. And as they are focused on this to the exclusion of all else, they don't try to displace the chainmasters or Duur'kala. The bugbear seeks to be first in battle and last to fall, taking pride in the fear he spreads in his enemies. Beyond this: Dhakaani Bugbears are the vanguard. They are shock troops and skirmishers. As such, they can be rangers as easily as barbarians. The barbarian is the wave that shatters the enemy line; the ranger is the warrior who moves ahead of the solid army, striking and fading away. This is also the role of the Taarka'khesh. But a bugbear can do it just as well. So looking to some of the existing 4E PPs: The Calm Fury (Primal Power) is, essentially, THE Dhakaani Bugbear Barbarian PP. Harnessed strength and fury instead of undisciplined rage. If you look purely to Eberron, I'd argue that this is exactly where this PP belongs; the Dhakaani are the culture where we've specifically called out barbarians as being disciplined instead of wild. With that said, the Ancestral Weapon PP is fine from a flavor perspective; a barbarian with just a touch of Duur'kala, embodying the characteristics of a great bugbear champion of the past. The Dhakaani rever the great heroes of the Empire, so this is perfectly appropriate - though depending what the character did with it, they could be perceived as a threat by some of the Duur'kala. The Twinclaw Slayer works fine for a Dhakaani Bugbear. Likewise, while not necessarily exciting, the Wildrunner is a fine PP for the swift skirmisher, seeking to outmanuever slower, more heavily armored foes. For DB Rangers, I could see Blade Dancer or multiclassing Barbarian and taking Wildrunner (I haven't seen MP II, so I don't know what else might be there). Ruthless Punisher works well as a Dhakaani PP - as they would certainly train rangers to focus on humanoid foes - but in some ways it seems more like a Taarka'Khesh PP. While many of these choices may not seem unique, the key about the Dhakaani is to focus on their skill, discipline, commitment to their cause, and the unity of the goblinoid species - each species serving its role as opposed to fighting with one another.
#9 Madfox11 Feb 23, 2010 3:27:57	MP2 focusses on the skirmisher ranger (one using thrown weapons and melee attacks) and to a lesser extend the beast master. I am sure there is something in there that works well with the bugbears since you describe them as skirmishers pur-sang.
#10 Ogiwan Feb 28, 2010 13:46:41	Oh! Oh! Oh! Come up with a sinister-sounding Goblin war cry (with translation), and "assign" it as a name to a style of Goblin light cavalry. Historical basis? Finnish Hackapelitta, so named from their battle cry, hakkaa päälle! Translation? HACK THEM DOWN!