Assassins are being released in Dragon on September 11.
Eberron, with espionnage and intrigue as cornerstone themes, will definitly like this new class.
Discuss the role and place of Assassins in the world of Eberron. Assassin-type characters you would like to play. Assassination adventures to throw at PCs, etc etc.
One of my players is waiting for the release to play his Shadow-marked Thuranni Elf Assasin, along side his companion, a Trust agent Gnome Rogue.
The Assassin seems almost tailor-made for the Houses of Shadow. I mean, they were already assassins drawing power from a shadowy source (the Mark of Shadow).
As for other places in the setting to use them, I'd definately see The Royal Eyes of Aundaire and the King's Dark Lanterns employing them. I'm not sure which organization would have more of them, though.
Aundaire is usually the magically-adept elite agents kind of place, but I think they'd focus more on the Arcane powersource and use divination rituals and the like.
Whereas there's already precedent for magically-talented assassins in the Dark Lanterns: Thorn. True she's a 3.5 assassin (eating spiders to cast spiderclimb. awesome.) but if you were to transate her into 4e, I'd put my money on her being an Assassin and not a Rogue multiclassed with wizard/sorcerer/warlock/whatever.
I can definitly imagine a Kalashtar Assassin from the Path of Shadow.
I expect it will be a fun class for changelings with a sinister bent. The Traveler is their go-to patron, but previous source material has also suggested that "monstrous" races consider The Shadow to be the bestower of monstrous powers. A changeling assassin could be what people imply when they say "doppelganger."
Oooo, nice one Alas.
I expect it will be a fun class for changelings with a sinister bent. The Traveler is their go-to patron, but previous source material has also suggested that "monstrous" races consider The Shadow to be the bestower of monstrous powers. A changeling assassin could be what people imply when they say "doppelganger."
Or is that 'dopplegangster'? 
Assassination's got to be a tricky game in Eberron given the existence of the Raise Dead ritual. You can't simply kill people, because the most important individuals will be brought back by the state if they are important to the war effort.
I think the assassins in Eberron will be playing a different game than on Earth. If you want to assassinate someone, you need either to so utterly destroy or hide the body so that no piece remains to be used as a focus for the resurrection, or you need to time the assassination so that the person is "out of play" at a critical moment.
If you're going to kill a Karrn general, for instance, you want to wait to kill him on the eve of the great battle so that the army doesn't have a leader. Killing him a month in advance doesn't do much good, since he can be raised in time to do his job.
I think this is where the Mark of Shadow comes in. I don't see Phiarlan having actually fielded assassins against nations during the Last War - any revelation of this would have absolutely destroyed their credibility for good. However, they certainly might have provided intelligence on upcoming moments that were good for killing so that assassins of the states would know when best to strike. This at least allows Phiarlan some plausible deniability.
However, before the Last War, I can easily see that Phiarlan might have maintained a cadre of assassins who removed enemies of the Galifar Empire. If people knew in 850 YK that Phiarlan was killing enemies of Galifar, a lot of the nobility might simply have thought, "Good! That's what they are there for." In 950 YK, though, such a revelation would have thrown the newly independent Five Nations into panicked rage.
So what's this mean for Phiarlan? Once the war began, they were suddenly saddled with expert assassins who couldn't practice their craft (maybe this agitated some to the point of driving Thuranni from the House). So what do you do with these guys?
Use them against other private intelligence agencies. You can't go around killing the Dark Lanterns or Royal Eyes without having every nation turn on you, but you can kill off private espionage groups that might be trying to compete with you. In effect, Phiarlan's assassins kill to protect the House monopoly on espionage.
***
What about assassins in the employ of the Five Nations? I imagine they had a rough time early in the war, since Galifar probably contracted Phiarlan to do a lot of its dirty work. With the outbreak of civil war, Phiarlan can't act so brutally, and now each nation has to build up not only its "wetworks crew" from scratch, but actually create espionage services from whole cloth. It's as if the United States split into 50 different countries - how exactly does Utah go about replacing the intelligence it benefitted from while the CIA, NSA, etc. were watching its back?
I think that the gap would have been filled with adventurers in the beginning - who else has the skills and killing experience? In fact, adventurers are very often assassins already ("Slay the Ogre King!"), they just aren't very stealthy most of the time. Once the war begins, they stop looting tombs and start killing enemies of their homelands.
It's only after a couple decades that these new states really get their act together, if they ever do, and develop their own professional intelligence services. Breland and Aundair probably go their act together with reasonable swiftness. I don't think Karrnath ever did, but each warlord probably has a few elite spies at her beck and call - domestic intelligence coordination in Karrnath must be a nightmare. Thrane might actually have had a edge in this field because of experienced Flamers who were already gathering intelligence on supernatural threats - silenting killing off lycanthropes and rakshasas, for instance.
Poor Cyre, though, probably relied heavily on private espionage and assassins, though, just as it needed mercenaries to support its armies. This means that the possible Phiarlan policy on exterminating upstart spy companies would have disproportionately hurt Cyre, and possibly antagonized the relationship between House and nation.
Assassination's got to be a tricky game in Eberron given the existence of the Raise Dead ritual. You can't simply kill people, because the most important individuals will be brought back by the state if they are important to the war effort.
The Raise Dead ritual is not 100%. Only the souls of individuals who are trully exceptional or destined to return in some way can return from the realm of the dead. You can't use it to revive every person who gets slain.
In much the same way that its physically possible to travel to Dolurrh, grab someone's soul, and drag it back to Eberron and put it back into the body. Doesn't mean it happens very often though.
Is there anything that suggets that the default is "doesn't work" rather than "does work?" Indeed, the ritual text seems to suggest that Raise Dead works unless the soul is trapped or the "gods intervene."
I'm certainly sympathetic to a personal preference that Raise Dead only works only people who have grand destinies or those who appear in the Prophecy, but what actually indicates that this is how it really works?
The default in the core D&D setting is that Raise Dead does work. The default in Eberron is that it does not work, and at times actually fails dramatically (e.g. evil spirit possesses body).
I think City of Stormreach, there was a mention of House Jorasco's resurrection facilities in their enclave, and how they'd cast Augury each time someone was to be raised from the dead.
Because sometimes, when they raised some Joe Schmoe from the dead a Marut Inevitable turned up from Dol Urruth and demolished a room or two while beating the raised to sparking red paste.
Not sure if it was supposed to be specific to Stormreach, but that's one way you could play it.
The PHB makes it pretty clear that the soul must be both free and willing to return to life and that the gods can intervene to prevent someone from being revived. It works regularly for the PCs since we can assume the soul is free, willing to return, and that the gods desire its return. NPCs are much more at the whims of the DM. The DM can decide the soul is trapped somewhere. That it lacks the will to return. Or that certain gods, for whatever reasons, don't want it coming back.
A pro assassin can use one of those dragonshard augmented daggers that trap the soul to prevent such resurrections.
The default in the core D&D setting is that Raise Dead does work. The default in Eberron is that it does not work, and at times actually fails dramatically (e.g. evil spirit possesses body).
Is there any text indication of that beyond message board discussion? The Stormreach text (City of Stormreach 42) refers to mishaps and failures as exceptional rather than normal.
Yes, I know NPCs are under DM control, but so is absolutely everything else except PC actions, so what in the setting material suggests that the typical result of the Raise Dead ritual being used is anything other than a normal result? It's difficult to explain why Jorasco would bother building Altar's of Resurrection if they failed most of the time, or were very likely to insert demons in the corpse instead of the souls of the departed. IE, if they only work on heroes, they would never have been built in the first place.
The fact that since day one of Eberron (way back in 3.5) that raise dead was on a list of high level magic that was very hard to come by. Yes Jorassco has tthe equipment for it, but not every little village. You'd have to hunt around Sharn or other large cities to find an enclave woth the tools and the ability to raise dead.
Is there any text indication of that beyond message board discussion? The Stormreach text (City of Stormreach 42) refers to mishaps and failures as exceptional rather than normal.
It does. But, in my opinion, the cast-augury-to-see-if-this-person-should-be-raised is standard proceedure... because people believe that tampering with life and death is not something to be done lightly. This is stated in canon on page 20 of Sharn: City of Towers:
In particular, raise dead is rarely used on Khorvaire, and it is highly unusual to find a cleric or adept who has the spell prepared. Followers of the Silver Flame believe that warriors who die in holy service join the Flame after death, while the Valenar elves believe that their dead join with the spirits of their ancestors. Even among the followers of the Sovereign Host, using raise dead is viewed as a challenge to the will and wisdom of the gods...
Note that's it's "Khorvaire", not "Sharn".
The critical point here is that in my opinion the society and culture of Eberron as depicted do not reflect a world in which resurrection is a simple mercantile commodity. A society in which raising the dead was reliable and simply a matter of having sufficient gold would be dramatically different from our world. It would be an interesting theme to explore - but in moy opinion, Eberron has not explored it. Beyond this, commonplace raise dead severely hurts the noir theme. Eberron is a world in which "stories don't always end well." It's not so bad when you're girlfriend is killed as a result of your killing the villain if you can just have her brought back to life for a couple hundred gold pieces.it also makes things like the death of Jarot, Dolurrh's Dawn, and a simple murder mystery that much less dramatic.
So: there is nothing STOPPING you from saying that raise dead is 100% reliable and can be used by anyone. By the core PHB RAW, you're on solid ground. However, both Sharn and Stormreach included the limitations mentioned as a way to try to keep Raise Dead in the world while still having the flavor of the world remain intact. As such how I like to use raise dead is as follows:
* Most priests won't attempt it, for the reasons given in Sharn. They will need to be convinced that the person should be returned, and that there is a reason to challenge fate. An interesting exception to this is the Blood of Vol, as they believe death isn't the stage of some greater destiny: it's an abomination. But they can't afford to raise everyone.
* The spirit of the victim must want to return. When you're dealing with NPCs, don't always assume that they will. Aside from whatever life issues they may have had, Dolurrh is actually quite peaceful, and the longer you stay, the more your concerns and troubles are wiped away; give it a week or two, and you're really at peace. This was a conscious and intentional part of the idea of memories fading in Dolurrh - that you can't bring the heroes of the Last War back, because they've been dead too long and don't want to leave. The only way to get such a soul back is to go to Dolurrh itself, which you can absolutely do - but THAT'S an exciting adventure.
* The forces of the universe must be willing to let the soul return. This is straight out of the 4E RAW: "The subject’s soul must be free and willing to return to life... the gods can intervene to prevent a soul from journeying back to the realm of the living." Now in Eberron, the question is what qualifies as "the gods", since the gods aren't (visibly) active forces. My answer would be "The Prophecy." SOMETHING can intervene to allow or prevent the return of a soul, and people don't know exactly what: the fact is simply that some people have a destiny to fulfil, and others have served their time and gone to their rest.
* It's true that the issues mentioned in Stormreach are describing Stormreach. But while it's certainly the case that these aren't blanket rules for the world, there's also no reason to assume that Stormreach is the only place that has troubles. Manifest zones. Buried Overlords. Forgotten graveyards filled with restless spirits. Angry maruts (which have no particular tie to Stormreach). Stormreach has its particular problems, but there can easily be many other places in the world that have troubles of their own.
* There are ways to insure that a soul remains bound. Sora Maenya binds the souls of her victims. By the 3.5 ECS, you have the Keeper's Fang weapon property that prevents resurrection - that's going to be a vital tool for a serious assassin. But with that said, I've always seen these as the tools you use when you absolutely want to make sure about things - that Raise Dead still isn't that comonplace.
Nonetheless, Jorasco has their altars. My feeling there is that they have nothing to lose by having them, as long as they are careful about their use. Your loved one dies. You've got gold. You go to Jorasco. They first do augury; if that fails, they apologize, you keep your money (aside from the initial augury deposit and a small service fee) and no harm is done. If the augury goes through, they take your money, perform the ritual, and hopefully your loved one is returned safe and sound. It may only work in one of ten cases. It may only work in one of twenty cases, or even one in one hundred. But if you had a one in one hundred chance of bringing a loved one back to life after an untimely death, wouldn't you still consider that a miracle?
Meanwhile, I'd actually give greater odds of success to people with a close spiritual tie to the deceased. Specifically, I'd say that Jaela would have a greater chance of raising a follower of the Silver Flame from the dead than Jorasco would, because she is tied to the Flame, and she can reach the soul of the follower within it. But that's where you'll have to reach Jaela and convince her to do it - something that should be an interesting adventure in its own right.
In any case, YOU should do whatever you want to do with raise dead in your campaign. It's obviously a vital tool for PCs. But in my opinion, Khorvaire as depicted doesn't have the flavor of a society where resurrection is a casual service for the public at large, and it hinders the noir flavor which is important to the games I run. The comments in Sharn and Stormreach were written to support this... and the pacifying effect of Dolurrh was specifically made with the idea that within a short amount of time a deceased soul doesn't WANT to return... though if you're up to the adventure, you can go and get him.
However, both Sharn and Stormreach included the limitations mentioned as a way to try to keep Raise Dead in the world while still having the flavor of the world remain intact.
I'm surprised this isn't mentioned in the EPG or ECG, but I would indeed follow the general line of thought from both of these books (and in fact I already do).
Is there anything that suggets that the default is "doesn't work" rather than "does work?" Indeed, the ritual text seems to suggest that Raise Dead works unless the soul is trapped or the "gods intervene.
I'm certainly sympathetic to a personal preference that Raise Dead only works only people who have grand destinies or those who appear in the Prophecy, but what actually indicates that this is how it really works?
Nobody ever implied that the deault is "doesn't work", merely that it is not 100% garaunteed. Situations where it would fail are clearly stated. Also taking into account the fact that PCs are in both a narrative/fluff and mechanical sense superior to NPCs, NPCs are even less likely to be successfully raised.
They need not have a grand destiny nor one that involves the Draconic prophecy (neither of which were mentioned). It must simply not be their time as decided by the powers that be (aka the DM). There are very few, if any mechanics that actually represent soul willingness to return, soul capturing, or divine intervention preventing a soul returning to the body. This makes it largely the realm of DM fiat, and it's expected that the DM will rule for what is best for the story.
And if the DM decrees for narrative purposes that the general destiny of the king was to have his throat slit and never have his soul return to his body, then Raise Dead is of little to no use.
This makes it largely the realm of DM fiat, and it's expected that the DM will rule for what is best for the story.
It's mainly just a question of consistency. If the GENERAL expectation within society is that a rich person can be raised - let's say that raise dead works 95% of the time, and can be used without consequence - then you would expect any serious assassin to perform a kill using a Keeper's Fang weapon or to otherwise take steps to ensure that the death will take (unless it's just making a statement).
If, on the other hand, Raise Dead only works on 1% of the population, the assassin may simply rely on the fact that things like Keeper's Fangs usually aren't required - it's something you can do if you really want to make sure, but the odds are generally in your favor if you don't.
This is the direction that's pushed with the Sharn: CoT bit and the idea of Dolurrh wiping away your desire to escape. Raise dead still exists, but it's more a tool for PCs and remarkable NPCs than a reliable service that should be taken into account throughout every level of society. They may very well have TRIED to resurrect Jarot - but paranoid and troubled as he was, he was ready to lay his burdens down. Or his death had by that point become clearly established as a touchstone in the Prophecy - and as future events in the Prophecy hinged upon it, it couldn't be changed. That's a weird flip on it - person A may be able to come back because he has a great destiny ahead, but person B may NOT be able to come back because his death is part of that great destiny. If you just kill Bob, you can bring him back. But if you kill him in accordance with a possible path of the Prophecy, you lock that piece in place and he can't come back. Which makes the whole war between the Lords of Dust and the Chamber that much more serious: I'm setting things up so not only will you die, you can't return.
So I'm all for people doing whatever they want. Keeper's Fangs exist to provide one solution to this issue. I'm just all about consistency. Whichever path you take, follow it through to its logical conclusion.
Always remember the power of Rule #0.
To be honest I've always had a bit of cringe in regards to Raise Dead (and similar resurrection powers/abilities) in Eberron. After all the core tenants and faith of the Sovereign Host (the most prevelant and practiced religion in Khorvaire) is that life is to drunk to the fullest, every moment experienced and enjoyed. However that spark of divinity once gone is just that, gone. Our souls eventually make their way to Dollurh because for lack of a better term they run out of power.
Dying is your soul moving on, you've had your chance, now move out the way and give everyone else a chance to experience this world. Using a Raise Dead ritual is almost like cheating, your expending a great deal to allow someone a second chance when in all likelihood they were meant to die, their time was over (either through gruesome happenstance or disease/old age). So at least amongst the Vassals coming back is a creepy thought. Yes you may come back, but you had better have an extremely good reason to do so and even then, well the Sovereigns may not allow it. After all the will of the Gods is final ;) .
Back on topic- My top pics for assassin backgrounds:
Trust
Dark Lanterns
Royal Eyes
House Thurani
House Phiarlan (mostly as hybrid/multiclass)
These are the easiest fits. However I'm sure every nation has a few. Darguun, Droaam, and The Lhazaar Pricipalities are very likely places as well.
Just looking to other established assassin orders...
In Darguun you have the shaarat'khesh goblins.
House Tarkanan sells assassin services to the common man who does haven't the connections to hire Thuranni for a job.
I could certainly see a line of Valenar assassins. Remember that the Valenar "heroes" were fighting a guerilla war against a vastly superior foe. Some of them were known for their bold cavalry strikes. But there were certainly others who used the shadows as weapons, who were never seen by their foes. This aspect of the culture isn't as well known, because a silent killer doesn't leave as much of an impression as the glory-seeking warrior. But both honor their ancestors.
In the Covenant of the Gray Mist, you might have a few assassins dedicated to hunting down and punishing those who committed crimes against Cyre in the war - and who hope to find and eliminate those responsible for the Mourning.
On a stranger angle, I could see the Children of Winter having a few assassins (likely multiclassed with a primal class that's a good match for the Assassin) trained to bring death to those who deserve it... "Winter's Blades" or something like that. Stealth has always been part of Winter's arsenal, creepy around and sowing pestilence - as such, I see the assassin fitting with them a little better than, say, the Ashbound (for all that an Ashbound magekiller is an interesting idea).
As has already been suggested, the kalashtar could certainly have an assassin order trained to clash with the Dreaming Dark in the shadows.
Among the Host and Six, I could see an order of Keeper's Fangs - assassins who pursue specific individuals they believe have been marked by their Sovereign and kill them with Keeper's fang weapons in order to send their souls to the Keeper. If you combined this with the Watchful Rest, they could believe that they are preserving these souls for a greater purpose in days to come - thus not even being evil.
Anyhow, just a few more to work with.
Here's a few more assassins' orders I came up with:
The Purging Flame: When those in the highest ranks of the Curch of the Silver Flame become corrupt bringing them to justice can be hard. Their positions give cardinals & bishops the power to make evidence (or even witnesses ) dissapear and allows them to quash all investigations long before they can be brought to trial.
The members of the purging flame believe that when normal methods of dispensing justice fail it is their sacred duty to remove corruption from the church useing the only way left: that of the blade.
Various spins that can be put on this idea:
1) The purging flame fights not only corruption in the church, but also goes after people in other positions of power that have been tainted by evil (e.g nobles or dragonmarked that deal with fiends). Though the purging flame fights for good it is definately operating far outside the law, furthermore as those killed have managed to hide the evidence of their corruption, the purging flame's actions are seen as the murder of upstanding citizens.
2) The members of the purging flame believe they are doing the right thing, but they are really acting on evidence planted by Cardinal Krozen...
Irthos Vyth (The Secret Steel): The dragons of The Vast enjoy playing games against each other, using the non-dragon inhabitants as playing pieces. In their search for an edge against their opponents some (especially Green & Black dragons) train their most loyal servants in the way of the assassin, employing them against the most valuable 'pieces' in their opponent's possesion, or even against their opponents direcly.
Oversight: Mentioned in Dragonmarked (page 74), Oversight is the security division of House Sivis. As Dragonmarked puts it: 'Gnomes who leak house secrets have a tendency to simply disappear.'
Oversight: Mentioned in Dragonmarked (page 74), Oversight is the security division of House Sivis. As Dragonmarked puts it: 'Gnomes who leak house secrets have a tendency to simply disappear.'
True. Assassins are a good match for Zilargo in general... they don't have to be limited to the Trust.
Thanks for the Oversight cell in Sivis, I have a player who wanted to play a Gnome Rogue of the Trust but wanted to be related to Sivis. I'll suggest her this organization.
Assassins in the Trust? That's just being silly, the Trust is there for the good of all, its the friend you didn't know you had, keeping an eye on you to make sure you don't get into trouble.
Seriously though, I do hope assassins synergize with Gnomes.
Assassins in the Trust? That's just being silly, the Trust is there for the good of all, its the friend you didn't know you had, keeping an eye on you to make sure you don't get into trouble.
Seriously though, I do hope assassins synergize with Gnomes.
My guess is the stats will be int, dex, and the either str or cha, but thats a complete guess.
And then gnome abilities help with hiding and subtley so i think gnomes will fit right in, and some how i think elves will too (or maybe this is just hoping).
We saw an Assassin preview, a halfling; he had huge Dex and huge Charisma. www.flickr.com/photos/davethegame/381987...
Attacks based off Dexterity: www.flickr.com/photos/davethegame/381987...
So Gnomes will NOT have ideal stats; they will, however, have decent secondary stats. This is more than made up for by two facts:
A) In 4E you can make an awesome character without minmaxing stats (I don't think I've ever played an optimized character and I've always had a blast)
B) Their buttload of ABILITIES will MORE than make up for their lack of assassin compatability in ability scores.
We saw an Assassin preview, a halfling; he had huge Dex and huge Charisma. www.flickr.com/photos/davethegame/381987...
Attacks based off Dexterity: www.flickr.com/photos/davethegame/381987...
So Gnomes will NOT have ideal stats; they will, however, have decent secondary stats. This is more than made up for by two facts:
A) In 4E you can make an awesome character without minmaxing stats (I don't think I've ever played an optimized character and I've always had a blast)
B) Their buttload of ABILITIES will MORE than make up for their lack of assassin compatability in ability scores.
My quess for the third ability is still int, maybe wis but i find it unlikely.
But dex cha makes these races good for it (i may miss some thinking off top of my head, or some wrong)
Changeling
Halfling
Tiefling
Dragonborn
Elf
Eladrin
Half-Orc
Gnome
How about an order of assassins that kill people on behalf of the Night Hags of the Demon Wastes? Typically the cults of the Dragon Below are pretty barmy, but IIRC the Night Hags are negotiators and neutral adjudicators amongst the Fiends. And when diplomacy is involved, so are some of the very direct methods.
A sleeper agent who spends most of his time working as an assistant to a baker, making an honest living and raising his (oblivious) wife and child. But every now and then a noble-man or person of importance will stay at the nearby inn for a night. And sometimes they are found in the morning dead, the cause varying from time to time. The will of the Night Hags and their Hands.
True. Assassins are a good match for Zilargo in general... they don't have to be limited to the Trust.
I'm away from my books at the moment, so I can't confirm, but as I recall the 3.5 Player's Guide to Eberron listed the ninja class as originating in Zilargo, and that it was latter adopted by House Phiarlan and House Thuranni as well. Seeing as the new assassin class seems to at least in part be based on aspects of the old ninja that origin might still be a good match.
I'm away from my books at the moment, so I can't confirm, but as I recall the 3.5 Player's Guide to Eberron listed the ninja class as originating in Zilargo, and that it was latter adopted by House Phiarlan and House Thuranni as well.
Personally, I take the PGtE sidebars very strongly as "inspiration" as opposed to concrete fact. Phiarlan aside, I'd say that both the Tairnadal and Shaarat'khesh had assassins long before Zilargo even existed as a culture.
I never liked the idea that class X is from Y. Class X can be anywhere. An X from Breland might be a very different sort of cat than an X from the Mror Holds, but both can be X.
For instance even though the class is a perfect fit for Aundarian or Valenar culture, and Karrnath doesn't have a strong arcane history I'm playing a Karrnathi Swordmage and loving it.
I never liked the idea that class X is from Y. Class X can be anywhere. An X from Breland might be a very different sort of cat than an X from the Mror Holds, but both can be X.
Certainly. As I see it, the OP was saying "give me ideas for different breeds of cats" as opposed to "Tell me where this would be legitimate." The Child of Winter assassin I suggested wouldn't somehow have learned the arts of the class from Zil or Dhakaani; it would simply be an independent tradition that is mechanically well-represented by the class. Just like you could have a kalashtar thaneborn barbarian based on the idea that he can channel his duulora spirit to inspire fury in battle... a completely different character from the Ashbound shifter barbarian or the human of the Carrion Tribes.
For instance even though the class is a perfect fit for Aundarian or Valenar culture, and Karrnath doesn't have a strong arcane history I'm playing a Karrnathi Swordmage and loving it.
Actually, while Aundair has the strongest arcane tradition, I've always considered Karrnath to be a strong second, focused specifically on the martial aspects of arcane magic. If you check the Demographics dragonshard (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/2...) it gets a +1d4 level modifier vs +1d3 for other nations (and +1d6 for Aundair). Personally, I'd expect a Karrnathi swordmage to focus on functional, forceful techniques, and for the Aundairian to have a little more finesse and style... but that's back to the different types of cats. Sideways to your point, but hey.
As an extra note on hellcow's: One of my players is playing a Kalashtar shaman who summons dream spirits instead of nature spirits.
As an extra note on hellcow's: One of my players is playing a Kalashtar shaman who summons dream spirits instead of nature spirits.
Something I suggested in this thread, though I imagine this is just parallel evoluion - it's an idea I quite like.
Personally, I take the PGtE sidebars very strongly as "inspiration" as opposed to concrete fact. Phiarlan aside, I'd say that both the Tairnadal and Shaarat'khesh had assassins long before Zilargo even existed as a culture.
All good points. I wasn't really trying to to make any statements of indisputable canon, more so just pointing out that something similar has been covered in a past publication.
Personally I disregarded most of those sidebars, as I had already decided upon how such details fit into my Eberron campaign months before the PGtE was even announced. Though I still gleaned a lot of inspiration from that book, and it's one of the few 3e supplements I make sure to keep close at while running my 4e Eberron game.
Certainly. As I see it, the OP was saying "give me ideas for different breeds of cats" as opposed to "Tell me where this would be legitimate." The Child of Winter assassin I suggested wouldn't somehow have learned the arts of the class from Zil or Dhakaani; it would simply be an independent tradition that is mechanically well-represented by the class. Just like you could have a kalashtar thaneborn barbarian based on the idea that he can channel his duulora spirit to inspire fury in battle... a completely different character from the Ashbound shifter barbarian or the human of the Carrion Tribes.
Yes, Keith is right. My intentions was to make people discuss around the Assassin class, Assassin-type characters from other classes, both fluff and crunch, and Assassination/Espionnage adventures (patrons, goals, why to do it, moral issues for the character, etc)
For instance, I have a player who is going to play a spy/assassin-type Changeling Druid. His powers do not come from any druidic belief (he actually reveres the Traveller) or any primal energy. His powers comes from his superior understanding of his racial Changeling Disguise ability that evolved to add the Wild Shape powers to it. He mainly uses Beast Form powers, and the 'Casting' Powers I don't know yet what explanation he'll be using.
Rekko
As an extra note on hellcow's: One of my players is playing a Kalashtar shaman who summons dream spirits instead of nature spirits.
Something I suggested in this thread, though I imagine this is just parallel evoluion - it's an idea I quite like.
As do i, but here I thought he and i were having an original thought.
As do i, but here I thought he and i were having an original thought.
Ehh, you can't take parallel evolution too hard. It happens. While I don't agree that there's nothing new under the sun, we are all simmering in the same blend of cultural and media influences and it's inevitable that like-minded individuals will reach the same conclusions. Hell, once I had this great idea that blended the 'western' and 'sci-fi' idia. About a week later, Firefly premiered. And so it goes, and so it goes.
As do i, but here I thought he and i were having an original thought.
And so you were. It just so happens I had the same original thought somewhere else.
As MrCelsius says, parallel evolution happens. HIVEMIND!
OM NOM NOM!
I can't remember seeing an organization for Karrnath that acts like the Royal Eyes or the Dark Lanterns. Did I miss it or has it been unnamed so far?
I can't remember seeing an organization for Karrnath that acts like the Royal Eyes or the Dark Lanterns. Did I miss it or has it been unnamed so far?
There isn't such an organization. Each warlord manages his own intelligence. Some might have only a few spies, others may have dozens of professionals. I'm sure it's a nightmare for King Kaius, who probably has spies trying to figure out what the spies of his own warlods know.
Chances are Kaius has at least 2 spies in everyone of his warlords spy-networks. So they do all the hard work and the information is then fed back to Kaius. You don't bring peace to a war-loving nation without having some serious information gathering skills.
Just a quick post to remember each and everyone that the Assassins are being released in Dragon on this Friday.
Hope this will rock our Eberron games!
Rekko
Chances are Kaius has at least 2 spies in everyone of his warlords spy-networks. So they do all the hard work and the information is then fed back to Kaius. You don't bring peace to a war-loving nation without having some serious information gathering skills.
IIRC that's how the "Forge of War" describes Karrnathi intelligence.
Chances are Kaius has at least 2 spies in everyone of his warlords spy-networks. So they do all the hard work and the information is then fed back to Kaius. You don't bring peace to a war-loving nation without having some serious information gathering skills.
IIRC that's how the "Forge of War" describes Karrnathi intelligence.
Explorer's Handbook mentions that Karrnath have an intelligence gathering agency named the Dark Cabinet,
Little is known about it, other than it possesses one of House Cannith's rare undersea ships.
Chances are Kaius has at least 2 spies in everyone of his warlords spy-networks. So they do all the hard work and the information is then fed back to Kaius. You don't bring peace to a war-loving nation without having some serious information gathering skills.
IIRC that's how the "Forge of War" describes Karrnathi intelligence.Explorer's Handbook mentions that Karrnath have an intelligence gathering agency named the Dark Cabinet,
Little is known about it, other than it possesses one of House Cannith's rare undersea ships.
While the FoW denies the existemce of a unified agency(p.88-at last back home
). Hm...Perhaps the Dark Cabinet is one of many Karrnathi agencies or those operatives who report straight to Kaius.Sadly it seems the Assassin Class write up wants to act as if there are no Campaign Setting races. No changling, warforged, or kalashtar feats, or gensai or drow (even though they're built into the flavor of the class) feats for that matter.
Otherwise looks good. It might just be me, but it seems that Diran from the Blade of the Flame series may have influanced this particular architype of assassins given the whole "As an assassin, you cede a portion of yourself to the Shadowfell, replacing a fundamental part of your being with a dark reflection of your true self." Granted in the BotF series it was a fiend that the assassin's guild bound to his soul but the principle is the same.
Of course the flavor is maliable. Dying a little inside and having the shroud of Doluurh inside you certainly fits within Eberron, though I think that Thuranni or Phiarlan could just use the class and its powers as an extention or representation of the powers of their mark.
Look in the shadows... its here ;)
The only problem I have is that I don't understand how Ki Focuses work. Can someone shed light over this?
Rekko
I have no idea. It seems like you get to add a ki focus enchantment bonus to any weapon, be it natural or improvised. So someone can make a Jackie Chan fight with the scenery character.
But they neglected to actually tell us the mechanics of it.
Sadly it seems the Assassin Class write up wants to act as if there are no Campaign Setting races. No changling, warforged, or kalashtar feats, or gensai or drow (even though they're built into the flavor of the class) feats for that matter.
Otherwise looks good. It might just be me, but it seems that Diran from the Blade of the Flame series may have influanced this particular architype of assassins given the whole "As an assassin, you cede a portion of yourself to the Shadowfell, replacing a fundamental part of your being with a dark reflection of your true self." Granted in the BotF series it was a fiend that the assassin's guild bound to his soul but the principle is the same.
Of course the flavor is maliable. Dying a little inside and having the shroud of Doluurh inside you certainly fits within Eberron, though I think that Thuranni or Phiarlan could just use the class and its powers as an extention or representation of the powers of their mark.
I came up with the idea of heir of Thuranni who lost his mark and so taps into the shadowfell to make up for his "shortcoming". Eventually (just before paragon tier) he would get the mark, and one of the best in the house.
Reading the assassin, I suddenly really, really wanted to play a Thuranni. Perhaps one with the arrogence and witticisms of Shaiman d'Thuranni, from the Heirs of Ash trilogy.
"Khyber," Xain swore. "You again."
"Good evening, Master Xain...I am not from Khyber. The devils from that forsaken place only wish they had my immaculate sense of style."
One of my players was waiting for the class to come up and now we are both thrilled. He is playing a Thuranni Assassin and he's going to kick some ass.
Maybe the Ki thing will be published in the Paragon Assassin Article.
Rekko
Maybe the Ki thing will be published in the Paragon Assassin Article.
no, and no feats eaither...just pps and powers
Maybe epic then. We did get the class plus feats for all three levels this time.
Otherwise looks good. It might just be me, but it seems that Diran from the Blade of the Flame series may have influanced this particular architype of assassins given the whole "As an assassin, you cede a portion of yourself to the Shadowfell, replacing a fundamental part of your being with a dark reflection of your true self." Granted in the BotF series it was a fiend that the assassin's guild bound to his soul but the principle is the same.Of course the flavor is maliable. Dying a little inside and having the shroud of Doluurh inside you certainly fits within Eberron, though I think that Thuranni or Phiarlan could just use the class and its powers as an extention or representation of the powers of their mark.
I'm not familiar with that series, but after having been reminded of the whole trading a piece of your soul for a piece of the shadow fell flavor, I can't help but think back to the Zilargo origin for the 3.5 ninja class. Given that the gnomes of Zilargo are the chief probationers of the process that binds elementals to create magic item, the idea that they might develop a similar process to bind shadows to their spies has a certain resonance.
What's nice is that the concept is indeed pretty flexible, allowing for a mix of half-dead souls, elves that channel the mark of shadows, Zilargo spies with a bound shadow, or any other number of flavorful spins on the origin of their powers.