Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Wotanziu Oct 08, 2013 8:31:10	What's the general attitude towards Vampires throughtout Eberron? I would assume that they are mostly regarded as evil and dangerous beings and shunned if not downright hunted? Are there any religious orders/sects that hunt Vampires (Sects within the Silver Flame)?   Also, how well can a Vampire PC hide the fact that he is a vampire?
#2 StrikerGreen Oct 08, 2013 9:29:30	Hello, Wotanziu!   So, Vampires have a GREAT place in Eberron. Firstly, the KING of Karranth is secretly a Vampire (indeed, he's acting as his own 'grandson' in public). Additionally, this King is one of the BIGGEST proponents of Peace.   Khorvaire, and specfically Karrnath itself, has a whole religion based around worshiping Intelligent Undead as Divine Beings: the Blood of Vol. Indeed, their religion specifically dictates that Blood is Life and they actually give blood at certain (un)holy rituals. As you can imagine, this would be a pretty great situation for a Vampire to be a part of.   Additionally, Eberron is all about 'shades of gray', meaning that 'good' and 'evil' are hard to pin down. So, a Vampire (or any intelligent undead creature for that matter) could easily be a Lawful Good Paladin of {insert faith here}.   Vampire PCs are totally acceptable (in my opinion) and as for the specific strategies for hiding the fact one's a Vampire; that seems up to the player, right?   Good luck and Game On!
#3 Syltorian Dec 03, 2013 7:37:19	I'm a bit late to the party, but one thing that needs to be said is that, under the Code of Galifar, undead have no rights (Sharn: City of Towers, I believe). Which means they cannot hold property, can be attacked on sight (not that attacking a powerful creature is a good idea), and so forth. In my campaign, Karrnath had local laws that allowed vampires to stay in power; you need those vampire counts after all! But that's only in the furthest reaches where nobody pays attention to Kaius' volte-face against the Blood of Vol.   As for sects that hunt vampires: next to the Silver Flame and the various orders of Dol Arrah, there are the Red Watchers, a secular group dedicated to freeing Karrnath from the Blood of Vol, which it sees as a menace.
#4 StrikerGreen Dec 06, 2013 10:03:38	Oh good call on the Red Watchers, Syltorian!   I agree that most intelligent undead would probably have a nominal 'living persona' that they used to disguse themselves.   I agree that, even in Karrnath, Undead as rulers is iffy... though if one looks at the temple city to the Blood of Vol in Karrnath; Atur and the Crimson Monastary, I would expect the Undead to be in charge there.
#5 Syltorian Dec 07, 2013 4:47:39	Malevanor is an interesting case. As an undead, he has technically no rights under the Code of Galifar. Yet he is the high priest of a major religion and possibly the most respected (or at least influential and fearerd) person in Atur. It would be interesting to know whether there would be legal consequences for adventurers killing him, beyond the obvious repercussions from the Blood of Vol. Under the previous kings, I believe the intelligent undead would have been granted rights in accordance with the tenets of the Blood of Vol, which requires people to respect them for having made the ultimate sacrifice (as undead beings, tthey no longer have a chance for immortality, though they are supposed to fight for that of those still living). But now that Kaius III has abandonned the Blood of Vol, I would expect that such laws have been repealed.    That said, I like to imagine situations where the PCs discover the local warlord is a vampire, who receives regular blood offerings from his serfs as part of their tithe, but who genuinely cares for them and protects them against some evil in the deep pine forests and the wide steppes that seem to make up most of eastern Karrnath - say, the Madstone. Adventurers who are out to hunt vampires might find that the local population is truly loyal to their overlord. Would such a warlord need to disguise his nature, if he is sufficiently remote from the big cities? Kaius III needs to hide if he wants to engage in international diplomacy, but the same might not hold true for a local warlord. Care would have to be taken not to create a proliferation of secret vampire overlords, which would make Kaius III less exceptional and thus diminish the impact of the revelation of his true nature.   Another place where I could see vampires gaining prominence is Droaam. They already have a tiefling city, werewolf tribes, and a mindflayer governor; a vampire would probably count as normal over there. Droaam could be a place where Seekers could have fled from persecution, and set up communities, relying on powerful undead to protect them against monsters, even allowing them to be considered equals by medusas, doppelgaengers, and other creatures with strange powers. Finally, we've so far forgotten to mention the most ancient vampires of all - those of Xen'drik. The Qabalrin elves are distant religious ancestors of the Blood of Vol, and figured out how to turn themselves into vampires. They Ring of Storms seems to make their escape impossible, and they may all slumber currently, but it would not be outrageous to create sects that still follow such an ancient creature who happened to be elsewhere when that gigantic siberys shard struck their main city.
#6 Beoric Dec 07, 2013 22:56:58	I would think that undeath would be unwelcome in a political system based on heriditary succession.  Even in Karrnath.  I expect that they would lose their property rights in favor of their heirs.  If not...   So, Dad died and became a vampire, and now I have to wait how long to inherit the castle and lands?  And you say its not illegal to kill a vampire under the Code of Galifar?  Where can I find a paladin of the Silver Flame?
#7 Syltorian Dec 08, 2013 1:58:37	Unwelcome, but possible, if the culture is used to it. It's not much worse than a culture based on primogeniture - where only the eldest child inherits and the rest are left to their own devices. Such cultures existed and worked. The same solutions second and third sons (and daughtes) used might apply to the "non-heirs" of a risen vampire: move to a different profession, into the clergy or the army, for instance; take some of your retainers and conquer another area and build your own castle; marry into a different family. Of course, it will put a strain on areas with large population densities, but fortunately, that's not the case for Khorvaire.    You're right though, that by the Code of Galifar, they lose their property rights. The Code of Galifar explicitely does not apply in some areas, though - Karrnath amongst them, which uses the Code of Kaius (closer to a restrictive martial law situation). We don't know what that one says about undead. I can merely guess that it favoured them under the Blood of Vol phase, and that those laws were reversed once Morganna decided to break with the Seekers.   As for plots against the vampire dad, like you describe: under the Code of Galifar, that works. Any religion apart from the Blood of Vol and cults of the Keeper will probably thank you for saving your dead from the gruesome fate of having become a vampire. If you are living in a Seeker community, however, you will probably run into problems, since you killed one of their holy champions for purely selfish reasons, even if it's not illegal by the laws of the land. Religious and secular laws don't necessarily overlap. But elsewhere, yes, you'd probably look for a cleric of the Silver Flame or of Dol Arrah to help that unfortunate vampire find his eternal rest.
#8 Hellcow Dec 10, 2013 16:28:40	Syltorian wrote:
#9 StrikerGreen Dec 11, 2013 8:37:06	That's right! Karranth is under the Code of Kaius and isn't the Queen of Karrnath an Aereni as well?   I could totally see her being associated with the Deathguard to aid in their covert missions to destroy Blood of Vol loyalists within Karnnath.
#10 Syltorian Dec 11, 2013 9:51:59	Queen Etrigani's situation is quite interesting. She seems to genuinely love Kaius, even though she knows what he is. As to how far the Deathguard would be involved is difficult to say; they might consider her a traitor and tainted by association, if they found out about Kaius, so she cannot allow them too much movement. Also, even those warlords and citizens not involved with the Blood may look askance at foreign agencies taking military or police actions in their country. Imagine the outcry: first the King sells us out at Thronehold, and now he has surrendered us to the Aereni? Seems like an Anthony and Cleopatra situation looming - you'd just need an Octavian to exploit it. Which might make for an interesting campaign, causing Karrnath to unite again under the Blood... but against the King and his obvious love of foreigners over his own people!
(Reply to #9) Hellcow	StrikerGreen wrote:
#12 Syltorian Dec 12, 2013 8:38:35	While I too prefer the idea that her love for Kaius III is true and causes her to lose sleep (well, elven trance...) over the conflicts with her deepest believes, those are some very interesting alternatives.   I'm aware that you run it differently, and that the Crown in your Eberron has dissolved all orders related to the Blood of Vol, the Onyx Skull included, but this is how I see Karrnath. The Blood of Vol in has undergone a schism, with one line true to Erandis (and her representants, since they mostly don't know that Erandis exists) and another true to the country and the king (also largely unaware that Erandis exists, but aware that the Abactors may not have Karrnath's interests at heart). The way I run it, the Order of the Onyx Skull was the older order of the Blood, and felt sidelined by the upstard Emerald Claw. They were the old guard who believed in the sanctity of life: while they had no qualms about using undead soldiers, they were uncomfortable with the terrorist tactics of the Emerald Claw and the killing of innocents by means of spreading disease, razing villages, and so forth. But the Emerald Claw were the King's shiny new toys, with tactics that were underhand but saved Karrnath, and the Onyx Skull became more and more an old guard of some nobles who wouldn't move with the changing world and faith.   In return, when Morganna turned against the Emerald Claw, it was the Order of the Onyx Skull who did most of the bloody work. They wanted revenge, but were sufficiently involved in the Seeker communities to move quickly, quietly and without arousing suspicion against the leaders of the Emerald Claw, in a Night of the Long Knives equivalent. The Regent used the rivalry between the two groups, essentially, and now the Onyx Skull parades itself as the true champions of faith, while rejecting the Emerald Claw and the Abactors.It also ensures that the Onyx Skull has become a target for the Emerald Claw, so they cannot become too powerful either - divide et impera. Also, a number of highly placed priests of the Blood have turned against the Abactors - to further their own careers, to save the Blood of Vol from Kaius' policies, or out of a genuine belief that the Abactors had a hand in causing Karrnath's troubles and have betrayed their faith. Essentially, the King and the Regent have managed to weaken the Seekers by pitting them against each other, and they deliberately keeps delaying any decisions about whether they want to accept the non-Erandis-related Blood of Vol, or whether they want to move against them as well. Kaius still needs the Bone Knights and necromancers. They happen to be an excellent defence against enemy undead: I imagine royalist Seekers being send to hunt down "Erandite" vampires (as well as those simply preying on the innocent instead of taking up their proper mantle as martyrs fighting against death) and trying to vest control over their unthinking undead/Karrnathi undead. Thrane Knights and followers of Dol Arrah may be able to turn undead, but royalist Seeker priests could turn them around and have them move against their former masters.   Etrigani, as presented in your alternative, would fit in right there with the royalist faction of the Blood of Vol. Kaius III hasn't made his move yet officially, but the royalist Seekers may be organised by the Queen herself. The King may even see himself as such a champion. He seems honourable (and is, indeed, Lawful), even if he doesn't know proper moral limits. But he has so far stopped helping the Ultimate Evil where the Blood is concerned - Death - by supporting, even instigating peace. Doing so has already saved countless lives. Now he just has to find out what caused the Mourning and make sure it doesn't happen again. And considering at least some effects are necromantic, there's another use for his loyalist necromancers.   The major problem, at the moment, is that neither faction seems to be really aware who leads them. The royalists of this scenario may speak of the blood of Karrnath itself, but are unaware that their very King is a vampire; the traditionalist Seekers are unaware that they are following the last "surviving" member of the Blood of Vol. Never mind anyone knowing the true motives of either leader.
#13 Hellcow Dec 12, 2013 11:02:21	Syltorian wrote:
#14 StrikerGreen Dec 12, 2013 14:06:01	thanks you two, this is AWESOME stuff to draw inspiration from!
#15 Syltorian Dec 13, 2013 10:52:06	Interesting and inspiring as always, Keith! Truth be told, I can actually see the Blood of Vol - at least, Erandis and the more self-serving Abactors - being behind at some of Karrnath's reversals. The timing just seems perfect. Karrnath was set to win the Last War without much effort, when it was struck by famine and plagues, hallmarks of necromantic intervention. That the Karrns were unprepared for this seems odd; Rekkenmark must teach logistics, after all; so either someone blundered staggeringly, or there was some kind of sabotage involved. And the Blood of Vol just happens to have food and help ready. Kaius' accusations against them seem to be built on solid ground, and that's why I have my "royalist Seekers" believe them too - hence why they broke with the Abactors. Naturally, it might all be bad luck, if the plagues spread first and prevented workers from bringing in a harvest.   Incidentally, it seems the Blood tried once before to take control of Karrnath. Very little has been revealed about this, but there is a lich in Dreadhold who seems to have gained a foothold in the region a few hundred years ago, and had to be put down by the combined forces of Karrnath's army and the knights of Dol Arrah and the Silver Flame. She's the reason, in my campaign, why cities such as Rekkenmark and Atur are fortified: since fortifications are one of the most expensive things a city can built, and there was a 'pax galiferiana' which lasted mostly a thousand years, there would otherwise be little reason to (although in my Eberron, Rekkenmark was also an experimenting field for fortifications, where they built them as a kind of showcase). Still, it'd be interesting to hear more about this lich. There was some relation to Winter, IIRC; but did she act on the order of Erandis? Or on her own initiative? And I believe she would also have been opposed by right-minded, 'true' Seekers like the Onyx Skull. She appeared in the Dragon Magazine Article on Dreadhold, by the way.
#16 Hellcow Dec 16, 2013 17:53:57	Syltorian wrote:
#17 Syltorian Dec 19, 2013 4:30:46	Thanks for this information, Hellcow. The Talons of Ice as a guerrilla force, striking apparently at random, is quite appealing. I also like the ideas of Saeria Lantol targetting Sovereign holy sites. The Seeker belief that the gods of the Host are evil has been sidelined too much, in my opinion, as opposed to their necromantic practices. When the Blood of Vol first appeared in Khorvaire, it must have created some strong conflicts - holy sites defaced, statues pulled down, and quite a lot of martyrs created. There must still be ancient sites in Karrnath where tumbled statues of the Pyrine faith lie half-buried in the ground, overgrown with forests, and haunted by the ancient priests. As for the days of the Talons of Ice, I would imagine Rekkenmark to have at least one major religious site dedicated to Dol Dorn and Dol Arrah (and, unofficially, Dol Azur), making that city a good target. It would also be interesting to have a few romantic ruins of monasteries in the countryside, sacked by the Ice Talons and never rebuilt. And some towns with hidden temples to the Dark Six would also have made good targets. Could one develop this further by asking whether Vol actually succeeded in whatever she had planed - as en elf and as a lich, she would plan well in advance, so those sites could still be time bombs of some necromantic nature. So, while all of Khorvaire believes they have defeated the Ice Talons, Vol's plan is still on course: there's a campaign in there. On the other hand, how much damage would the action of such terrorists do to the Seeker faith? If the Vassals were targetted, they might well have leashed back against innocent Seekers.   It's a pity we know so little about the history of Eberron. It need not be very developped - building on Eberron's "liberal" approach to lore, allowing the DM to adapt it - but it should be clearer than it currently is. There are little nuggets hidden throughout the source material, but it would be important to make people aware that there was no real Pax Galiferiana (except in royal propaganda and current nostalgia).
(Reply to #11) DoctorBadWolf	Hellcow wrote: