SUPERIOR MELEE WEAPONS
Two-Handed
Talenta Sharrash +2 2d4 — 30 gp 8 lb. Heavy blade, polearm Small, reach, high crit
Talenta Tangat +3 1d10 — 30 gp 5 lb. Heavy blade Small, high crit
SUPERIOR RANGED WEAPONS
One-Handed
Talenta Boomerang +2 1d6 6/12 3 gp 1lb. Bludgeon Light thrown, curving
Curving: This weapon reduces the penalty to attack an opponent with cover or total cover by 2, though cannot take this penalty below 0.
Talenta Sharrash: A long-hafted weapon with a scimitar-like blade on the end. A more agile form than most polearms makes this weapon ideal in the saddle and on foot.
Talenta Tangat: A large curved blade attached to a short haft. Weapon drill forms for this blade have been incorperated into the traditional dances of many tribes.
Talenta Boomerang: A curved piece of solid wood or bone, occasionally reinforced by metal. In the hands of a skilled user, this weapon can be made to curve in flight, allowing it to strike at unexpected angles.
New Feats
Talenta Plains Warrior
Prerequisites: Halfling
Benefit: You gain proficiency with the Katar and all Talenta Weapons (The three in this post and any future weapons) and gain a +2 damage damage when attacking with them. This bonus increases to +3 at 21st level.
Curving Throw
Prerequisites: Rogue, Proficient with Talenta Boomerang
Benefit: You can wield a Talenta Boomerang to deal Sneak Attack damage and to use rogue powers that require a light blade.
If you attack a foe adjacent to at least two of your allies with a Talenta Boomerang you gain combat advantage for that attack.
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One Handed
Talenta Razorclaw Blade +3 1d6 — 15 gp 2 lb. Light blade High crit
Talenta Razorclaw Blade: Longer and more curved than a short sword, this weapon is often seen in the hands of hunters and cut-throats of the Boromar clan.
Talenta Plains Warrior
Prerequisites: Halfling
Benefit: You gain proficiency with all Talenta Weapons (The four in this post and any future weapons) and gain a +2 damage damage when attacking with them. This bonus increases to +3 at 21st level.
Talenta Razorclaw Blade +3 1d6 — 15 gp 2 lb. Light blade High crit
Talenta Razorclaw Blade: Longer and more curved than a short sword, this weapon is often seen in the hands of hunters and cut-throats of the Boromar clan.
Talenta Plains Warrior
Prerequisites: Halfling
Benefit: You gain proficiency with all Talenta Weapons (The four in this post and any future weapons) and gain a +2 damage damage when attacking with them. This bonus increases to +3 at 21st level.
Curving: This weapon reduces the penalty to attack an opponent by 2, though cannot take this penalty below 0.
Could you clarify what you mean by this? I'd word it a little more specifically as something like "This weapon reduces the attack penalty from cover and total cover by 2" or "A user proficient with a curving weapon ignores penalties from cover (but not total cover) when making an attack with the weapon."
Curving Throw also seems like it would be useful to a halfling ranger. And just for fun, I'd add in something fairly trivial like "If you miss with a boomerang attack, the weapon returns to your hand. (Note that all magical thrown weapons automatically return to your hand, hit or miss; this benefit applies to mundane boomerangs.)"
Also I didn't think it was really worth putting in anything about automatically returning. I know it's nicely cinematic, but really you're throwing either to hit an ememy or to perform a nifty returning trick to impress your friends.
If you've invested in a boomerang you'll probably have a magic one soon enough anyway.
Just a note but Halflings cant use 2-handed weapons barring a house-rule.
meh its a dumb rule. According to that ruling there can't be halfling barbarians since all but one of the barbarian at-wills require the use of a two handed weapon.
And I needs me my dinosaur riding halfling barbarians.
meh its a dumb rule. According to that ruling there can't be halfling barbarians since all but one of the barbarian at-wills require the use of a two handed weapon.
And I needs me my dinosaur riding halfling barbarians.
You can be a barbarian without being a Barbarian.
Just a note but Halflings cant use 2-handed weapons barring a house-rule.
A small character can use a two-handed or a versatile weapon the same as a medium character if the weapon has the "small" property (which the above weapons have) -PHB p.217
Just a note but Halflings cant use 2-handed weapons barring a house-rule.
Um, halflings (and other small characters) can use a 2-handed weapon if it has the small property...
EDIT: Gah. Gilo already said that! Doh.
I think that they should be stated as "two-handed" weapons with the "small" weapon property
I forgot about the "small" property that's why I used a one-handed + versatile that was a mistake.
(Note that all magical thrown weapons automatically return to your hand, hit or miss; this benefit applies to mundane boomerangs.)"
Is this some houserule, giving all magic throwing weapons the returning quality for free?
Is this some houserule, giving all magic throwing weapons the returning quality for free?
I'm 95% convinced it's explicitly stated in the 4th Edition Player's Handbook. I don't have the book on hand so I can't give you the page number.
Is this some houserule, giving all magic throwing weapons the returning quality for free?
No. All 4e magical thrown weapons receive the returning property.
(Also, please ignore the Razorclaw blade which, as another forumite pointed out, is redundant compared to the Katar.)
The ones posted here might be a bit overpowered to be honest.
How so?
The Tangat has a slight advantage over the Greatsword but doesn't even do as much damage as a Fullblade.
The Sharrash is a step above the Glaive, but it's a superior weapon.
The Boomerang does a little more damage than a shuriken but is less accurate in most circumstances. (And a Rogue doesn't have to spend two feats to use it effectively.)
Looks pretty balanced to me.
The tangat is superior to a greatsword, not quite as powerful as a fullblade, but is usable by small characters. It is hands down the best weapon usable by small characters that we have seen so far.
Same with the Sharash.
I think the fact that all of the offical versions of these weapons are slightly weaker then what is listed here should be telling. The devs felt that stats such as these were overpowered. I tend to side with the devs unless someone has some REALLY good reasons why I should not.
The boomerang gets 1d6 damage instead of 1d4 damage, and +2 to hit instead of +3 to hit, but then it gets the "curving" property as well. This makes it hands down superior to a shuriken.Who uses shuriken?
Most classes would seem to favour heavy thrown weapons and those who wouldn't (Say, low-strength characters in need of a backup weapon) would probably stick with throwing daggers around, since Shuriken proficiency would cost them a feat.
The only class that can make good use of them is the Rogue* and they get proficiency for free AND an increase in damage die to d6. So for them the boomerang is usually a suboptimal choice, since they have to spend a feat to gain it's proficiency bonus AND another to use it for their nifty rogue powers.
*And possibly the monk, but so far they seem more melee orientated.The tangat is superior to a greatsword, not quite as powerful as a fullblade, but is usable by small characters. It is hands down the best weapon usable by small characters that we have seen so far.
That would seem to say more about the selection of weapons open to small characters. (And it says "It's not very good.")
Compare a Halfling with my version of the Tangat to a Goliath, a Dragonborn or a Human with a Fullblade. The medium sized races are at an advantage in terms of damage in addition to having a better range of Military-level weapon choices.
Since it means halflings don't outdo other races in this particular kind of build (Strong dude with big weapon) I'd say it's a balanced weapon.Same with the Sharash.
Halflings couldn't use reach weapons before, so of course this is the best reach weapon for halflings.
Compare a Greatsword to a Fullblade, the feat cost brings an increase in damage die and High Crit damage. Compared to the Glaive, the Sharrash gains High Crit and the ability to be used by a small character. It's not that big a jump in power.I think the fact that all of the offical versions of these weapons are slightly weaker then what is listed here should be telling. The devs felt that stats such as these were overpowered.
While it's written by gaming professionals, it's not as if the crunch in D&D sourcebooks has ever been good in all it's minutae. In this case I feel the developers erred too far on the side of caution, keeping halfling barbarians (and other two handed weapon warriors) as sub-par choices.
Since the Talenta Barbarians are an important part of the setting, I feel Talentan warriors should be about as powerful as their medium counterparts.I tend to side with the devs unless someone has some REALLY good reasons why I should not.
Houserules are a fine tradtion in gaming. Playing with the official weapon stats isn't going to render Halflings utterly unplayable and mine aren't going to turn them into tiny Chuck Norrises.
Even before the EPG came out these were only suggestions for people to use if they liked them or to tinker with to their own ends.
Were I to play a Talenta barbarian at your game table I'd accept your ruling and carry on.
As it is, this post presents another option for those mildly disappointed by the versions of the weapons presented in the EPG. (I was prompted to raise this thread from the murky depths by a thread on the Errata forums.)
Who uses shuriken?
Most classes would seem to favour heavy thrown weapons and those who wouldn't (Say, low-strength characters in need of a backup weapon) would probably stick with throwing daggers around, since Shuriken proficiency would cost them a feat.
The only class that can make good use of them is the Rogue* and they get proficiency for free AND an increase in damage die to d6. So for them the boomerang is usually a suboptimal choice, since they have to spend a feat to gain it's proficiency bonus AND another to use it for their nifty rogue powers.
None of this changes the fact that you just took a weapon, and made it a hands down superior version of the sherukin. You have thus made an overpowered version of an existing RAW weapon.
That would seem to say more about the selection of weapons open to small characters. (And it says "It's not very good.")
Perhaps, and this is really the crux of the rest of your post. But, for whatever reason, in this edition of D&D, small characters are represented as being small by having a slightly inferior choice of two-handed melee weaponry. As it is, the RAW versions of those weapons are hands down the best larger sized melee weapons available for use by smaller characters. What you have written here is hands down better then both any other RAW weapon available to such characters, and the RAW on these weapons. For whatever reason, the dev's seem to feel that this is how small characters should be balanced. Perhaps the feeling is that the other abilities of small characters make them slightly better then other racial benefits packages, and they pay for this slight advantage through their inability to use larger weapons as effectively *shrug*. Like it or hate it, but this is how small characters are designed in 4e. And I have not really seen you provide a good reason why this is not the way they should be designed, or why it is desirable for you to provide a set of weapons for small characters that out and out breaks free from this mold in the face of a set of 4e RAW versions of these weapons which clearly implies that this mold should not be broken.
I prefer the RAW versions of these weapons. I don't think improved two-handed weapons that are out and out better than all other options available to small characters is the way to provide small "two handed tough guy" support to talanta halflings in 4e. I think racial feats that aid with such builds is the way to go... feats I might note are sadly lacking in the 4e EPG as of this moment. If I was going to implement house rules in regards to talanta halflings, it would not be to contradict the RAW stats of their weapons. I would create a new set of "talanta halfling" feats. Maybe something like dinosaur mount feats, or feats that increase their damage with two-handed weapons, or perhaps their combat mobility, in other ways. I am guessing we will probably see a list of appropriate feats in Primal Power.
None of this changes the fact that you just took a weapon, and made it a hands down superior version of the sherukin. You have thus made an overpowered version of an existing RAW weapon.
You have to look at these things in context.
Small Rangers and Bards might use it for powergaming. Shortbows lack the curving property but deal more damage and have further range. Plus, you can get special ammunition for bows.
Rogues aren't going to use it. They have Shuriken, which get a bonus to damage and hit and sneak attack damage and automatic proficiency. That generally trumps a +2 bonus to hit vs targets with cover and no sneak attack damage that you have to pay a feat to get.
Fighters, Warlords, Barbarians, Paladins, Swordmages and other classes won't use it for powergaming. Strength is more important to them than Dexterity, so they would use Heavy Thrown weapons like the Handaxe.
Monk and Avenger wouldn't use it for powergaming. They use Dex, but have no ranged weapon powers. It'd be to them what the the handaxe is to the Strength based classes. A backup ranged weapon to take pot shots before reaching melee.
Warlocks, Sorcerers, Druids, and other classes have spells for ranged attacks. They wouldn't use it for powergaming.
This is not a really attractive powergaming option for any class in comparison to existing weapons.
None of this changes the fact that you just took a weapon, and made it a hands down superior version of the sherukin. You have thus made an overpowered version of an existing RAW weapon.
Hands down superior? Hardly.
Even on the basic stats, the proficiency bonus is lower and the curving property is circumstantial.
Coupled with it's "Bludgeoning" weapon type and the fact that the most common users of Shuriken not only get proficiency for free but gain an increase in damage, this boomerang is not that amazing.
(For non-rogues, the Shuriken is pretty crummy compared to a Dagger, which can be used in melee, doesn't cost a feat and only has slightly shorter range.)
Thanks to Alex_ for the examination of classes.
Perhaps, and this is really the crux of the rest of your post. But, for whatever reason, in this edition of D&D, small characters are represented as being small by having a slightly inferior choice of two-handed melee weaponry.
And that's kept with the Tangat. Medium sized characters would be better off going with a Fullblade.
The Sharrash, I'll grant you, is quite good for small and medium characters, but so far there's only one Superior reach weapon (Greatspear) so comparisons are difficult.
As it is, the RAW versions of those weapons are hands down the best larger sized melee weapons available for use by smaller characters.
Hands down? They're not better in every way compared to the Bastard Sword and the Triple Headed Flail (More damage and accuracy for the price of no high crit), the Longsword (Military weapon, same damage, higher accuracy at the cost of no high crit) and the Warpick (Military weapon, same proficiency, same damage, only lacks the ability to be used versatilely by small characters.)
So, not the outright best, it depends what you want out of a weapon.
What you have written here is hands down better then both any other RAW weapon available to such characters, and the RAW on these weapons.
Nitpick: My Tangat has lower accuracy than the EPG version. Again, not better in every way.
For whatever reason, the dev's seem to feel that this is how small characters should be balanced.
Seem, perhaps, but can you point to text in the books or on DDI which outright states this as a design philosophy?
It could be that whoever designed the EPG versions also assumed this was part of the design philosophy and thus erred too far on the side of caution. (Certainly, whoever designed these weapons forgot about the Small keyword, so it's not as if the designers infalliable or have a perfectly unified vision.)
And I have not really seen you provide a good reason why this is not the way they should be designed, or why it is desirable for you to provide a set of weapons for small characters that out and out breaks free from this mold in the face of a set of 4e RAW versions of these weapons which clearly implies that this mold should not be broken.
What threshold is a good reason? I already have the stats I made, I'm not as keen on the EPG stats and I'd like superior weapons to be worth the investment.
And I don't see the rules of game as a mold or a boundry to be built within. I see it as a framework to be built upon and worked with. I don't think what I'm made overextends from this core structure.
I prefer the RAW versions of these weapons.
Good for you. I'm sure you'll have fun either way.
I don't think improved two-handed weapons that are out and out better than all other options available to small characters is the way to provide small "two handed tough guy" support to talanta halflings in 4e.
Why should this not be provided through their distinct and unique weapon styles?
If I was going to implement house rules in regards to talanta halflings, it would not be to contradict the RAW stats of their weapons.
If you're going to use houserules and deviate from RAW, why should others not do so elsewhere?
I would create a new set of "talanta halfling" feats.
Sounds good. I'm sure the forum goers would like to see them if you decide to.
Maybe something like dinosaur mount feats, or feats that increase their damage with two-handed weapons, or perhaps their combat mobility, in other ways.
Combat mobility is a forte of halflings I'd like to see used but why is it okay to increase their damage with two handed weapons if you believe the design philosophy is to constrain the usefulness of two handed weapons for small characters?