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Bosnian War conflict in Eberron

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
harrygardner1
Jul 25, 2009 11:31:33 i was wondering if it was at all possible to stage a similar conflict to that of the Bosnian war involving any of the regions and nations of Eberron without it becoming to widespread so that it involves everybody.

so for starters who could Represent the Serbs
also a militarily organization within the whoever represents the Serbs to act as a type of SS/Schutzstaffel

going for the Inglourious Basterds theme where a strike force goes into a occupied area to spread fear and kill Schutzstaffel type forces for there war crimes against Humanity ethnic cleansing and so on.

also any peace keeping groups like NATO or the UN,

i know the Argent Legion within the Silver Marches in FR kinda took on a roll of a peace keeping force or though it was to hold back the tide of orcs, trolls, giants, and gnolls etc.

keeping in mind i don't have the new books yet and I'm a complete newbie to Eberron.
#2
miric
Jul 25, 2009 15:42:14 You could try doing this kind of concept either as reprecussions for, or during the great inquisition to purge Khorvaire of Lycanthropes as executed by the Church of the Silver Flame. That seems very fitting to the concept of what you're going for.

With the Shifter races (which originated from Eberron) there is a perfect in for the PCs to be linked to the Lycans, and Shifters were probably targeted or persecuted by the Church as well. If I remember though there was soemthing in one of the setting books that mentioned the Church has tried to make amends since then to the Shifters.

Best I can come up with off the top of my head.
#3
mahavira
Jul 25, 2009 16:08:12 Set during the Last War would make sense - the Emerald Claw are already intended as SS, and it is not at all difficult to imagine that an army heavily reliant on masses of undead troops would butcher villagers to serve as "conscripts". Have Karrnath occupy a portion of the Lhazar Principalities (intending to either sieze port/shipyard facilities or reduce raids on their supply lines by Lhazar pirates), with the governor/local supreme commander being a hard core BoV/EC guy, possibly even a vampire, and have one of the other nations decide that igniting a resistance movement there will tie down Karrn troops that would otherwise be on the front.
#4
identitystolen
Jul 25, 2009 17:26:43 In northern tip of Thrane there is this little former Aundairian city called Thaolist where the people aren't happy with anyone and the city leader loves violent crack downs. :D

Thaolist might work, but I don't think the Diet of Cardinals would allow any foreign "peacekeepers" into the region.
#5
Alex_
Jul 25, 2009 17:39:20 Since you're new to the setting, keep in mind that the entire continent of Khorvaire just emerged from a century long war between the five most powerful kingdoms, where one of them ended up being blown completely off the map in a magical version of Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Things are in a very tense-cold war like state. There is no universally recognized peace keeping force, although there is a Mercantile Dynasty known as House Deneith which does sell its services to all sides as body gaurds, bounty hunters, and mercenaries (amongst other things).

I would suggest using the Aundairan city of Thaliost, which is under occupation of Thranish forces. The current authority is Archbishop Solgar Dariznu, who cracks down on any public protest or signs of political dissent with violent force and public executions.

I really think it'd be your best bet. The Arch Bishop is supposed to be a real nasty guy who has equally corrupt and nasty allies back home in the Clergy of Thrane. He has an army of loyal soldiers and regularly commands them to do horrible things in the name of maintaining order and power. It'd be very easy to play him up as some kind of corrupt priest/governer who has gone mad with power.

The country of Aundair would like to take Thaliost back. The city used to be under Karrnathi control at one point as well, so it could also be a matter of pride. Both nations really dislike Thrane.

Other than that, there is actually very little in Eberron the vein of poor innocent civilians being killed and dumped in mass graves for the purposes of ethnically cleansing territories. Most of your war crimes are going to be from the last war, and were more along the lines of overzealous soldiers getting revenge in the name of their land. Relatively little of it was racially motivated, since most of the nations had been dealing with racially varied populations for thousands of years. Nationality and allegiances matters more than your outward appearance in Khorvaire.
#6
GordonPasha
Jul 25, 2009 19:07:31
i was wondering if it was at all possible to stage a similar conflict to that of the Bosnian war involving any of the regions and nations of Eberron without it becoming to widespread so that it involves everybody.

No it isn't possible. And after reading the description of what you plan, I came to the impression that you also don't want to.
Don't get me wrong: I'm too new to the setting, but not new to the history of the Yugoslav war's, and the Bosnian war, as well as the stage on which it took place, was totally different to the Eberron world.
And even if it wasn't. The Bosnian war was not an isolated conflict. It involved four countries directly (more if you take short existing, not recognized countries like Herceg-Bosna, RS, etc. into the account). Namely Yugoslavia (now Serbia and Monte Negro, Bosnia and Croatia). Even more countries were involved indirectly in one way, or another: USA, Russia, Germany, France, GB, Saudi Arabia, to mention only the most prominent.
This conflict was very complex (and still is).

But if you want a local racial or ethnic (or both) conflict, and want to use some events or groups that resemble some events or groups of the Bosnian war, I think that could be done. For example you could create a group similar to the SDG, better known as Arkanovi Tigrovi (Arkan's Tigers). Here is some background info about Arkan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDeljko_Ra%C5%BEnatovi%C4%87 Although they had not much in common with the SS. (But none of the groups involved in this conflict had, IIRC).
#7
leowulf
Jul 25, 2009 20:33:26
Other than that, there is actually very little in Eberron the vein of poor innocent civilians being killed and dumped in mass graves for the purposes of ethnically cleansing territories. Most of your war crimes are going to be from the last war, and were more along the lines of overzealous soldiers getting revenge in the name of their land. Relatively little of it was racially motivated, since most of the nations had been dealing with racially varied populations for thousands of years. Nationality and allegiances matters more than your outward appearance in Khorvaire.

This has definitel possibilities. What if the PC's are hired to find and take down someone accused of Crimes Against Humanoids? They might have to travel to one locale to find clues and from there to another where the Big Bad is hiding out, perhaps plotting to reinstitute whatever pogrom he was responsible for during the Last War. As they go from place to place, the PC's can find that not only was the Big Bad guilty of War Crimes, but the depth of his evil was greater than imagined, and perhaps he was even in league with the Lords of Dust.
#8
Alex_
Jul 25, 2009 23:07:24
As they go from place to place, the PC's can find that not only was the Big Bad guilty of War Crimes, but the depth of his evil was greater than imagined, and perhaps he was even in league with the Lords of Dust.

Keep in mind that in Flame Keep, in addition to the Silver Flame, Tira, and a Couatl, there is also a bound Rajah. Known as the Shadow in the Flame, it is believed that he speaks to people through the flame just as Tira, and that he may be responsible for some of the more corrupt acts by people who think they're hearing the voice of the flame and not some evil ancient demon.
#9
arjomanes
Jul 26, 2009 14:52:59 I'd take a different approach here. While Thrane is an interesting choice, I'd set this type of conflict between Aundair and the Eldeen Reaches.

The Reaches declared independence 40 years ago, during which time they have been at constant war with the Aundairian nation (empire?) that had controlled the entire territory. Aundair still refuses to recognize the Reaches, and has little to no diplomatic relations with the Wardens of the Wood.

Over these last decades, Aundair and the Reaches have engaged in numerous bloody skirmishes across the farmlands on both sides of the Wyrnan River. No doubt Aundair expended no small amount of their magical might and resources on the barbaric humans, shifters, and monsters of the Reaches, probably with horrific results. In return, fanatical groups like the Eldeen Wolves and the Ashbound have terrorized the people of Aundair. The treaty of Thronehold appears to have done little to stop the violence between the two regions, as border skirmishes still occur frequently.

In my campaign, post-war Aundair has locked down the border with the Reaches, going over identification papers strictly, stifling trade into the country, and harassing the Reachers that cross the river. Meanwhile, the loosening control of the Wardens, growing rise of a charismatic leader of the Ashbound, and the fierce independence of Reachers, fueled by radical sects, has created a culture of antagonism by disaffected people of the Eldeen Reaches who raid and commit acts of terrorism throughout Aundair.

Several important factions in Aundair are looking for an excuse to push into the eastern Reaches. Lord Darro, one of the nation's Triumvirate and the leader of the Knights Arcane, is secretly planning a campaign into the Reaches to reclaim the lost territory. To that end, he has continued the fear and characterization of Reachers as barbarians and blood-thirsty fanatics that will always be a threat across their border. His rhetoric appeals to the puritan Silver Flame followers widespread in Aundair, already skeptical of shifters and the strange druid cults, and ordinary Aundairians swept up in nationalism and fear.

The immolation of Windshire by a suicidal band of fanatical shifter druids provides just the excuse Aundair needs. Lord Darro is able to finally convince Queen Aurala that a 'peacekeeping' force is necessary across the Wynarn River in the eastern territory. The Royal Eyes confrim that a campaign into the Eldeen Reaches in retaliation for this atrocity will likely not draw any armed conflict by other nations, though no doubt Breland, Thrane, and Karrnath will be very vocal in opposition to an invasion. As such, Aundair decides it is worth the risk to retake the fertile farmland and strategic region -- a feat impossible while they maintained fronts against Thrane and Karrnath during the Last War.

The invasion goes smoothly and efficiently, rolling into the Reaches and taking Varna, the border towns, Cree, Mossmantle, and all the farmlands, until bogging down in the Towering Wood outside Greenheart. Droaam lends monstrous mercenaries to the fight, which escalates the conflict and justifies to Aundair that this is a righteous battle of civilization versus monstrosity. This is used to great effect as propaganda, gaining the support of many important leaders of the Silver Flame, preventing Thrane from taking action against Aundair, and gaining many mercenary recruits among the Thranish knights and from all across Khorvaire to fight for the Shining March of Progress. Aundair attacks with massive magical siege engines supported by magewrights and warmages, pummeling the Reachers with overwhelming magical artillery. Reports slowly leak out of horrors committed against the people of the Eldeen Reaches that sound reminicent of some of the horrors of the Day of Mourning. When the other nations hear of mass killing and genocide of shifter tribes, druid sects. orcs, centaurs, and other 'beasts' they decide to get involved, by contracting a giant army of House Deneith Sentinels to keep the peace and protect the Shifter communities.

Lord Darro and his Knights Arcane could attempt to form a new independent nation in the Eastern Eldeen Reaches territory he occupies, possibly even recruiting Oargev ir'Wynarn to his cause, and promising Cyran refugees a new home if they join his cause. In the end, it could take a combined multi-national force of Breland, Darguun, Zilargo, and Valenar (because the elves just want an excuse to fight) to defeat Lord Darro, with Queen Aurala calling for restraint on all sides and recognition of the new nation, which Aundair hopes to influence and run as a puppet state.

A twsit could also include Aundair using the Royal Eyes to launch a campaign among the people of the Eastern Reaches to break away and jin Aundair, with Aundair demanding that it's their right to rejoin 'civilization' again and that they are actually Aundairians first, sending an army to support their independence. This could parallel the recent Russian/Georgian conflict.
#10
kawnell
Jul 27, 2009 21:11:58 Brainstorming
Thaolist: Thaolist turning back over to Aundair could nullify the Thronehold accords. It's in 'everyones' best intrest for it not to happen (though Aundair might disagree). The dragonmarked houses are the only truly "neutral" force, and House Deneith serves that function at Thronehold and with the Sentinal Marshals. So you could use Blademarks under Sentinal Marshal control to help enforce the peace, investigate claims of wrong doing (war crimes), etc.

Other Locations
Lhazaar & Darguun are both locations that could fraction at any moment.

Lhazaar could become a bunch of individual city-states and the rest of the Khorvaire could see it as just the status quo. However, a unified Principalities is better for bringing your grievances about piracy to than a bunch of individual barons. So I could see a peace keeping force here.

If Darguun fractures, it could become a bloody land grab from Zilargo, Breland, displaced Cyrans, and the Goblinoids themselves. I don't know if anyone would care to put a peacekeeping force to deal with it initially, but I could see Denieth contracted with after civilian homesteaders have set down some roots. How Denieth honors their contracts, and keep goblin mercenaries happy elsewhere could be touchy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 harrygardner1 Jul 25, 2009 11:31:33	i was wondering if it was at all possible to stage a similar conflict to that of the Bosnian war involving any of the regions and nations of Eberron without it becoming to widespread so that it involves everybody. so for starters who could Represent the Serbs also a militarily organization within the whoever represents the Serbs to act as a type of SS/Schutzstaffel going for the Inglourious Basterds theme where a strike force goes into a occupied area to spread fear and kill Schutzstaffel type forces for there war crimes against Humanity ethnic cleansing and so on. also any peace keeping groups like NATO or the UN, i know the Argent Legion within the Silver Marches in FR kinda took on a roll of a peace keeping force or though it was to hold back the tide of orcs, trolls, giants, and gnolls etc. keeping in mind i don't have the new books yet and I'm a complete newbie to Eberron.
#2 miric Jul 25, 2009 15:42:14	You could try doing this kind of concept either as reprecussions for, or during the great inquisition to purge Khorvaire of Lycanthropes as executed by the Church of the Silver Flame. That seems very fitting to the concept of what you're going for. With the Shifter races (which originated from Eberron) there is a perfect in for the PCs to be linked to the Lycans, and Shifters were probably targeted or persecuted by the Church as well. If I remember though there was soemthing in one of the setting books that mentioned the Church has tried to make amends since then to the Shifters. Best I can come up with off the top of my head.
#3 mahavira Jul 25, 2009 16:08:12	Set during the Last War would make sense - the Emerald Claw are already intended as SS, and it is not at all difficult to imagine that an army heavily reliant on masses of undead troops would butcher villagers to serve as "conscripts". Have Karrnath occupy a portion of the Lhazar Principalities (intending to either sieze port/shipyard facilities or reduce raids on their supply lines by Lhazar pirates), with the governor/local supreme commander being a hard core BoV/EC guy, possibly even a vampire, and have one of the other nations decide that igniting a resistance movement there will tie down Karrn troops that would otherwise be on the front.
#4 identitystolen Jul 25, 2009 17:26:43	In northern tip of Thrane there is this little former Aundairian city called Thaolist where the people aren't happy with anyone and the city leader loves violent crack downs. :D Thaolist might work, but I don't think the Diet of Cardinals would allow any foreign "peacekeepers" into the region.
#5 Alex_ Jul 25, 2009 17:39:20	Since you're new to the setting, keep in mind that the entire continent of Khorvaire just emerged from a century long war between the five most powerful kingdoms, where one of them ended up being blown completely off the map in a magical version of Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Things are in a very tense-cold war like state. There is no universally recognized peace keeping force, although there is a Mercantile Dynasty known as House Deneith which does sell its services to all sides as body gaurds, bounty hunters, and mercenaries (amongst other things). I would suggest using the Aundairan city of Thaliost, which is under occupation of Thranish forces. The current authority is Archbishop Solgar Dariznu, who cracks down on any public protest or signs of political dissent with violent force and public executions. I really think it'd be your best bet. The Arch Bishop is supposed to be a real nasty guy who has equally corrupt and nasty allies back home in the Clergy of Thrane. He has an army of loyal soldiers and regularly commands them to do horrible things in the name of maintaining order and power. It'd be very easy to play him up as some kind of corrupt priest/governer who has gone mad with power. The country of Aundair would like to take Thaliost back. The city used to be under Karrnathi control at one point as well, so it could also be a matter of pride. Both nations really dislike Thrane. Other than that, there is actually very little in Eberron the vein of poor innocent civilians being killed and dumped in mass graves for the purposes of ethnically cleansing territories. Most of your war crimes are going to be from the last war, and were more along the lines of overzealous soldiers getting revenge in the name of their land. Relatively little of it was racially motivated, since most of the nations had been dealing with racially varied populations for thousands of years. Nationality and allegiances matters more than your outward appearance in Khorvaire.
#6 GordonPasha Jul 25, 2009 19:07:31	i was wondering if it was at all possible to stage a similar conflict to that of the Bosnian war involving any of the regions and nations of Eberron without it becoming to widespread so that it involves everybody. No it isn't possible. And after reading the description of what you plan, I came to the impression that you also don't want to. Don't get me wrong: I'm too new to the setting, but not new to the history of the Yugoslav war's, and the Bosnian war, as well as the stage on which it took place, was totally different to the Eberron world. And even if it wasn't. The Bosnian war was not an isolated conflict. It involved four countries directly (more if you take short existing, not recognized countries like Herceg-Bosna, RS, etc. into the account). Namely Yugoslavia (now Serbia and Monte Negro, Bosnia and Croatia). Even more countries were involved indirectly in one way, or another: USA, Russia, Germany, France, GB, Saudi Arabia, to mention only the most prominent. This conflict was very complex (and still is). But if you want a local racial or ethnic (or both) conflict, and want to use some events or groups that resemble some events or groups of the Bosnian war, I think that could be done. For example you could create a group similar to the SDG, better known as Arkanovi Tigrovi (Arkan's Tigers). Here is some background info about Arkan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDeljko_Ra%C5%BEnatovi%C4%87 Although they had not much in common with the SS. (But none of the groups involved in this conflict had, IIRC).
#7 leowulf Jul 25, 2009 20:33:26	Other than that, there is actually very little in Eberron the vein of poor innocent civilians being killed and dumped in mass graves for the purposes of ethnically cleansing territories. Most of your war crimes are going to be from the last war, and were more along the lines of overzealous soldiers getting revenge in the name of their land. Relatively little of it was racially motivated, since most of the nations had been dealing with racially varied populations for thousands of years. Nationality and allegiances matters more than your outward appearance in Khorvaire. This has definitel possibilities. What if the PC's are hired to find and take down someone accused of Crimes Against Humanoids? They might have to travel to one locale to find clues and from there to another where the Big Bad is hiding out, perhaps plotting to reinstitute whatever pogrom he was responsible for during the Last War. As they go from place to place, the PC's can find that not only was the Big Bad guilty of War Crimes, but the depth of his evil was greater than imagined, and perhaps he was even in league with the Lords of Dust.
#8 Alex_ Jul 25, 2009 23:07:24	As they go from place to place, the PC's can find that not only was the Big Bad guilty of War Crimes, but the depth of his evil was greater than imagined, and perhaps he was even in league with the Lords of Dust. Keep in mind that in Flame Keep, in addition to the Silver Flame, Tira, and a Couatl, there is also a bound Rajah. Known as the Shadow in the Flame, it is believed that he speaks to people through the flame just as Tira, and that he may be responsible for some of the more corrupt acts by people who think they're hearing the voice of the flame and not some evil ancient demon.
#9 arjomanes Jul 26, 2009 14:52:59	I'd take a different approach here. While Thrane is an interesting choice, I'd set this type of conflict between Aundair and the Eldeen Reaches. The Reaches declared independence 40 years ago, during which time they have been at constant war with the Aundairian nation (empire?) that had controlled the entire territory. Aundair still refuses to recognize the Reaches, and has little to no diplomatic relations with the Wardens of the Wood. Over these last decades, Aundair and the Reaches have engaged in numerous bloody skirmishes across the farmlands on both sides of the Wyrnan River. No doubt Aundair expended no small amount of their magical might and resources on the barbaric humans, shifters, and monsters of the Reaches, probably with horrific results. In return, fanatical groups like the Eldeen Wolves and the Ashbound have terrorized the people of Aundair. The treaty of Thronehold appears to have done little to stop the violence between the two regions, as border skirmishes still occur frequently. In my campaign, post-war Aundair has locked down the border with the Reaches, going over identification papers strictly, stifling trade into the country, and harassing the Reachers that cross the river. Meanwhile, the loosening control of the Wardens, growing rise of a charismatic leader of the Ashbound, and the fierce independence of Reachers, fueled by radical sects, has created a culture of antagonism by disaffected people of the Eldeen Reaches who raid and commit acts of terrorism throughout Aundair. Several important factions in Aundair are looking for an excuse to push into the eastern Reaches. Lord Darro, one of the nation's Triumvirate and the leader of the Knights Arcane, is secretly planning a campaign into the Reaches to reclaim the lost territory. To that end, he has continued the fear and characterization of Reachers as barbarians and blood-thirsty fanatics that will always be a threat across their border. His rhetoric appeals to the puritan Silver Flame followers widespread in Aundair, already skeptical of shifters and the strange druid cults, and ordinary Aundairians swept up in nationalism and fear. The immolation of Windshire by a suicidal band of fanatical shifter druids provides just the excuse Aundair needs. Lord Darro is able to finally convince Queen Aurala that a 'peacekeeping' force is necessary across the Wynarn River in the eastern territory. The Royal Eyes confrim that a campaign into the Eldeen Reaches in retaliation for this atrocity will likely not draw any armed conflict by other nations, though no doubt Breland, Thrane, and Karrnath will be very vocal in opposition to an invasion. As such, Aundair decides it is worth the risk to retake the fertile farmland and strategic region -- a feat impossible while they maintained fronts against Thrane and Karrnath during the Last War. The invasion goes smoothly and efficiently, rolling into the Reaches and taking Varna, the border towns, Cree, Mossmantle, and all the farmlands, until bogging down in the Towering Wood outside Greenheart. Droaam lends monstrous mercenaries to the fight, which escalates the conflict and justifies to Aundair that this is a righteous battle of civilization versus monstrosity. This is used to great effect as propaganda, gaining the support of many important leaders of the Silver Flame, preventing Thrane from taking action against Aundair, and gaining many mercenary recruits among the Thranish knights and from all across Khorvaire to fight for the Shining March of Progress. Aundair attacks with massive magical siege engines supported by magewrights and warmages, pummeling the Reachers with overwhelming magical artillery. Reports slowly leak out of horrors committed against the people of the Eldeen Reaches that sound reminicent of some of the horrors of the Day of Mourning. When the other nations hear of mass killing and genocide of shifter tribes, druid sects. orcs, centaurs, and other 'beasts' they decide to get involved, by contracting a giant army of House Deneith Sentinels to keep the peace and protect the Shifter communities. Lord Darro and his Knights Arcane could attempt to form a new independent nation in the Eastern Eldeen Reaches territory he occupies, possibly even recruiting Oargev ir'Wynarn to his cause, and promising Cyran refugees a new home if they join his cause. In the end, it could take a combined multi-national force of Breland, Darguun, Zilargo, and Valenar (because the elves just want an excuse to fight) to defeat Lord Darro, with Queen Aurala calling for restraint on all sides and recognition of the new nation, which Aundair hopes to influence and run as a puppet state. A twsit could also include Aundair using the Royal Eyes to launch a campaign among the people of the Eastern Reaches to break away and jin Aundair, with Aundair demanding that it's their right to rejoin 'civilization' again and that they are actually Aundairians first, sending an army to support their independence. This could parallel the recent Russian/Georgian conflict.
#10 kawnell Jul 27, 2009 21:11:58	Brainstorming Thaolist: Thaolist turning back over to Aundair could nullify the Thronehold accords. It's in 'everyones' best intrest for it not to happen (though Aundair might disagree). The dragonmarked houses are the only truly "neutral" force, and House Deneith serves that function at Thronehold and with the Sentinal Marshals. So you could use Blademarks under Sentinal Marshal control to help enforce the peace, investigate claims of wrong doing (war crimes), etc. Other Locations Lhazaar & Darguun are both locations that could fraction at any moment. Lhazaar could become a bunch of individual city-states and the rest of the Khorvaire could see it as just the status quo. However, a unified Principalities is better for bringing your grievances about piracy to than a bunch of individual barons. So I could see a peace keeping force here. If Darguun fractures, it could become a bloody land grab from Zilargo, Breland, displaced Cyrans, and the Goblinoids themselves. I don't know if anyone would care to put a peacekeeping force to deal with it initially, but I could see Denieth contracted with after civilian homesteaders have set down some roots. How Denieth honors their contracts, and keep goblin mercenaries happy elsewhere could be touchy.