Catastrophic Dragons in Eberron - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Catastrophic Dragons in Eberron

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Lord_Ventnor
Aug 06, 2009 16:23:34 A few months back, the Volcanic Dragon was previewed in DDI. It is a member of the Catastrophic family of dragons, a group of dragons that made a deal with the Primordials in the Points of Light DDI setting to gain incredible destructive powers.

But the Primordial War isn't a part of the Eberron Setting (not officially, anyway), and so that takes away that avenue of the origin of Catastrophic Dragons.

But does that mean that Catastrophic Dragons have no place in Eberron? I say nay!

An idea for those who wish to use those types of enemies in Eberron (as well as some of the Planar Dragons in Draconomicon I is to display them as Argonessen Dragons that have been "corrupted" by Tiamat's influence. As I understand, in Eberron she's one of the Demon Lords of Eberron's past, rather than a deity, and so I think that portraying elemental dragons as creatures she's influenced just makes sense to me.

Opinions?
#2
misterfido_dup
Aug 06, 2009 16:43:22 I use monsters from future books exponentially less than the # in the title (1/4 MM2, 1/9 MM3... you get it =P) so this matters little to me... however, were I to need to know how to do this, I'd simply slap down that they joined forces with the fiends during the fiend v. dragon war.

Or, alternatively--who says Eberron's the only one who can create dragons as his spawn?

Fiends spring from Khyber... Khyber is all manner of evil magic and dark planes and the elemental chaos... Catastrophic dragons are evil dragons connected to the elements... it works.

This would plonk them into a early-universe war, on the "wrong side", matching the MM3.

As for the part of their lore that makes them outcasts, neither allied to neither god nor prirmordial, I'd say that as dragons, they're hated by fiends and not trusted by the Lords of Dust. And as ancient pact bearers of Khyber (or just as spawn), they're not trusted by other dragons.

Or, I might do something more dramatic, like when the dragons used cataclysmic magics to wipe out the giants, the dragons who flew over to the continent to cast the spells or perform the rituals were wrecked by the same magic that warped Xen'drik, becoming a race of elementals--once all of their essence had been extracted by their own magic.

Your idea is good--fits with one of my ideas of being khyberspawn, or corrupted/pacted with it, but I hate specifics like "Tiamat specifically corrupted them", since it doesn't leave wiggle room for making stuff up later when you need it.
#3
rauric
Aug 06, 2009 21:50:23 I liked to think tht the Primordials might have existed in EB, but the dragons were able to beat them back into the Planes with so little trouble (compared to the fiends) that there is hardly mention of it.

When people think of dire threats to EB they think of the DD and the LOD and Daelkyr but there other threats living on the planes that are just as nasty. There are the fiery forces of Fernia. I am sure the nobles of the City of Brass would like to take a crack at invading Eberron. The same goes for other planes. Perhaps the Primordial lords are also trapped in some eldritch devices deep within Khyber? So the catastrophic dragons could be linked with the Primordials planar lackies.
#4
Hellcow
Aug 07, 2009 15:11:52
When people think of dire threats to EB they think of the DD and the LOD and Daelkyr but there other threats living on the planes that are just as nasty.

That's how I see it. I don't even think the daelkyr are the worst Xoriat has to offer; they're simply the aspects of it that have an interest in reaching out to other worlds. But if you go to Xoriat itself, there might be greater terrors waiting for you.
#5
Tharag_Bocc
Aug 07, 2009 18:53:57
But the Primordial War isn't a part of the Eberron Setting (not officially, anyway)

Or is it?

The new layout for the cosmology defines the elemental chaos as being the dragon below (Khyber), the astral sea as being the dragon above (Siberys), while the world itself is the dragon between (Eberron).

Setting lore already tells us that Khyber (the primordials) fought with and slew Syberys (the gods), which could explain the lack of an overt divine presence in the setting. Afterwords Eberron (the primal spirits) sealed itself and Khyber away, thus why the primordials don't rule unopposed in the gods absence.

The parallel could also apply to the end of the age of demons, when world born dragons teamed with celestial powers to lock away a horde of demons in a battle that ultimate required the sacrifice of a large group of the celestials ( couatls).

On a side note, before typing all that out I had never noted the potential similarities between the end of the age of demons and the myth regarding the progenitor dragons. There are certainly differences, but given that the age of demons ended over a million years before the modern age?
#6
misterfido_dup
Aug 07, 2009 22:22:04
But if you go to Xoriat itself, there might be greater terrors waiting for you.

Like Rod Serling.

Incidentally, after my brainstorming post, I think I'm definitely going to stick with the "catastrophic dragons are what's left after normal dragons used cataclysmic magics to wreck the giant empire" story, just because.. because =P

It also lends the question... what happened when the giants used that same magic? Hmm...
#7
hellgrammite00
Aug 08, 2009 0:04:32 I went through the Volcanic D&D article.

Perhaps Catastrophic dragons are considered by some(evil beings) to be the original dragons spawned during the age of demons. That khyber created the dragons in his own image. To combat this, Khyber's sibling created what most mortals on Eberron would consider the true dragons. But these are just a twisted image to the raw power that Khyber bred into his children.

Of course this is the point of view many on Eberron would disagree with.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lord_Ventnor Aug 06, 2009 16:23:34	A few months back, the Volcanic Dragon was previewed in DDI. It is a member of the Catastrophic family of dragons, a group of dragons that made a deal with the Primordials in the Points of Light DDI setting to gain incredible destructive powers. But the Primordial War isn't a part of the Eberron Setting (not officially, anyway), and so that takes away that avenue of the origin of Catastrophic Dragons. But does that mean that Catastrophic Dragons have no place in Eberron? I say nay! An idea for those who wish to use those types of enemies in Eberron (as well as some of the Planar Dragons in Draconomicon I is to display them as Argonessen Dragons that have been "corrupted" by Tiamat's influence. As I understand, in Eberron she's one of the Demon Lords of Eberron's past, rather than a deity, and so I think that portraying elemental dragons as creatures she's influenced just makes sense to me. Opinions?
#2 misterfido_dup Aug 06, 2009 16:43:22	I use monsters from future books exponentially less than the # in the title (1/4 MM2, 1/9 MM3... you get it =P) so this matters little to me... however, were I to need to know how to do this, I'd simply slap down that they joined forces with the fiends during the fiend v. dragon war. Or, alternatively--who says Eberron's the only one who can create dragons as his spawn? Fiends spring from Khyber... Khyber is all manner of evil magic and dark planes and the elemental chaos... Catastrophic dragons are evil dragons connected to the elements... it works. This would plonk them into a early-universe war, on the "wrong side", matching the MM3. As for the part of their lore that makes them outcasts, neither allied to neither god nor prirmordial, I'd say that as dragons, they're hated by fiends and not trusted by the Lords of Dust. And as ancient pact bearers of Khyber (or just as spawn), they're not trusted by other dragons. Or, I might do something more dramatic, like when the dragons used cataclysmic magics to wipe out the giants, the dragons who flew over to the continent to cast the spells or perform the rituals were wrecked by the same magic that warped Xen'drik, becoming a race of elementals--once all of their essence had been extracted by their own magic. Your idea is good--fits with one of my ideas of being khyberspawn, or corrupted/pacted with it, but I hate specifics like "Tiamat specifically corrupted them", since it doesn't leave wiggle room for making stuff up later when you need it.
#3 rauric Aug 06, 2009 21:50:23	I liked to think tht the Primordials might have existed in EB, but the dragons were able to beat them back into the Planes with so little trouble (compared to the fiends) that there is hardly mention of it. When people think of dire threats to EB they think of the DD and the LOD and Daelkyr but there other threats living on the planes that are just as nasty. There are the fiery forces of Fernia. I am sure the nobles of the City of Brass would like to take a crack at invading Eberron. The same goes for other planes. Perhaps the Primordial lords are also trapped in some eldritch devices deep within Khyber? So the catastrophic dragons could be linked with the Primordials planar lackies.
#4 Hellcow Aug 07, 2009 15:11:52	When people think of dire threats to EB they think of the DD and the LOD and Daelkyr but there other threats living on the planes that are just as nasty. That's how I see it. I don't even think the daelkyr are the worst Xoriat has to offer; they're simply the aspects of it that have an interest in reaching out to other worlds. But if you go to Xoriat itself, there might be greater terrors waiting for you.
#5 Tharag_Bocc Aug 07, 2009 18:53:57	But the Primordial War isn't a part of the Eberron Setting (not officially, anyway) Or is it? The new layout for the cosmology defines the elemental chaos as being the dragon below (Khyber), the astral sea as being the dragon above (Siberys), while the world itself is the dragon between (Eberron). Setting lore already tells us that Khyber (the primordials) fought with and slew Syberys (the gods), which could explain the lack of an overt divine presence in the setting. Afterwords Eberron (the primal spirits) sealed itself and Khyber away, thus why the primordials don't rule unopposed in the gods absence. The parallel could also apply to the end of the age of demons, when world born dragons teamed with celestial powers to lock away a horde of demons in a battle that ultimate required the sacrifice of a large group of the celestials ( couatls). On a side note, before typing all that out I had never noted the potential similarities between the end of the age of demons and the myth regarding the progenitor dragons. There are certainly differences, but given that the age of demons ended over a million years before the modern age?
#6 misterfido_dup Aug 07, 2009 22:22:04	But if you go to Xoriat itself, there might be greater terrors waiting for you. Like Rod Serling. Incidentally, after my brainstorming post, I think I'm definitely going to stick with the "catastrophic dragons are what's left after normal dragons used cataclysmic magics to wreck the giant empire" story, just because.. because =P It also lends the question... what happened when the giants used that same magic? Hmm...
#7 hellgrammite00 Aug 08, 2009 0:04:32	I went through the Volcanic D&D article. Perhaps Catastrophic dragons are considered by some(evil beings) to be the original dragons spawned during the age of demons. That khyber created the dragons in his own image. To combat this, Khyber's sibling created what most mortals on Eberron would consider the true dragons. But these are just a twisted image to the raw power that Khyber bred into his children. Of course this is the point of view many on Eberron would disagree with.