Change in cosmology - change in moral implications of elemental binding? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Change in cosmology - change in moral implications of elemental binding?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
mahavira
Jul 30, 2009 19:34:35 Now that the elemental chaos is in Khyber (and kiddy corner to the Abyss), do people think that the moral implications of elemental binding are now different? Rather than 'enslaving elementals is wrong', is the issue 'why are you summoning alien monstrosities from Khyber?' (yes, many/most elemental creatures are unaligned, but I don't know how far you'll get with 'well most things from Khyber aren't really that bad...')
#2
phoeris
Jul 30, 2009 20:22:45 I really can't imagine that the opinions would change that much. To the average person in Eberron elementals are still freakish monsters regardless of where they originate. I can imagine a lesser number of anti-binding members of arcane and divine sources but I imagine the Druid Sects could have some objection because you're binding a sentient thing that occurs naturally in the world.

By and large though I don't think the Elemental Binders in Zilargo will really care much about what people think as long as they keep paying them. :P
#3
bobiago
Jul 30, 2009 22:48:50 Good point. I think it will continue to bother anyone it bothered before. The Elemental Chaos/Khyber is not just pure evil - it is both the force of destruction/change that is necessary for progress, as well as the raw material from which almost all Life sprung.

I'm not sure if this is how the source material handles it, but I see Creation as needing a symbiotic relationship between Khyber (Chaos/the Elements/Raw Materials), Siberys (Order/Magic/Intelligent Design), and Eberron (the Life Force/Love).

Some creatures (Fiends, Couatl/Dragons) are closer to their own "creators" than others, but I think everything required all three progenitors to exist at some level.

So thus, the Elementals are no more tainted than they once were for being spawns of Khyber. They have to have had at least a touch of the Life Force and a bit of cohesive order to exist. They also are the material manifestation a pure force of nature that is present in all living things.
#4
Hellcow
Jul 31, 2009 6:48:40
Some creatures (Fiends, Couatl/Dragons) are closer to their own "creators" than others, but I think everything required all three progenitors to exist at some level.

Calling out dragons in particular, while they are said to be the children of Siberys and Eberron, the influence of Tiamat is a reflection of the fact that there's a little Khyber in all of them as well. Couatl, rakshasa and the like are closer to one element because they are idealized concepts as much as physical entities... but mortal creatures are generally more of a mix.
#5
lanthiel
Aug 02, 2009 14:43:10 Just because they can summon and bind the elementals(using dragonshards from Khyber mind you) doesnt mean that they necessarily know where they're coming from. And they dont care. Just as they dont care whether or not the elementals are alive or sentient. It's a lucrative and efficient method and that's all that concerns them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mahavira Jul 30, 2009 19:34:35	Now that the elemental chaos is in Khyber (and kiddy corner to the Abyss), do people think that the moral implications of elemental binding are now different? Rather than 'enslaving elementals is wrong', is the issue 'why are you summoning alien monstrosities from Khyber?' (yes, many/most elemental creatures are unaligned, but I don't know how far you'll get with 'well most things from Khyber aren't really that bad...')
#2 phoeris Jul 30, 2009 20:22:45	I really can't imagine that the opinions would change that much. To the average person in Eberron elementals are still freakish monsters regardless of where they originate. I can imagine a lesser number of anti-binding members of arcane and divine sources but I imagine the Druid Sects could have some objection because you're binding a sentient thing that occurs naturally in the world. By and large though I don't think the Elemental Binders in Zilargo will really care much about what people think as long as they keep paying them. :P
#3 bobiago Jul 30, 2009 22:48:50	Good point. I think it will continue to bother anyone it bothered before. The Elemental Chaos/Khyber is not just pure evil - it is both the force of destruction/change that is necessary for progress, as well as the raw material from which almost all Life sprung. I'm not sure if this is how the source material handles it, but I see Creation as needing a symbiotic relationship between Khyber (Chaos/the Elements/Raw Materials), Siberys (Order/Magic/Intelligent Design), and Eberron (the Life Force/Love). Some creatures (Fiends, Couatl/Dragons) are closer to their own "creators" than others, but I think everything required all three progenitors to exist at some level. So thus, the Elementals are no more tainted than they once were for being spawns of Khyber. They have to have had at least a touch of the Life Force and a bit of cohesive order to exist. They also are the material manifestation a pure force of nature that is present in all living things.
#4 Hellcow Jul 31, 2009 6:48:40	Some creatures (Fiends, Couatl/Dragons) are closer to their own "creators" than others, but I think everything required all three progenitors to exist at some level. Calling out dragons in particular, while they are said to be the children of Siberys and Eberron, the influence of Tiamat is a reflection of the fact that there's a little Khyber in all of them as well. Couatl, rakshasa and the like are closer to one element because they are idealized concepts as much as physical entities... but mortal creatures are generally more of a mix.
#5 lanthiel Aug 02, 2009 14:43:10	Just because they can summon and bind the elementals(using dragonshards from Khyber mind you) doesnt mean that they necessarily know where they're coming from. And they dont care. Just as they dont care whether or not the elementals are alive or sentient. It's a lucrative and efficient method and that's all that concerns them.