Changelings and Doppelgangers, one and the same?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

prototype00

Oct 06, 2009 11:21:46

I know that they ret-conned Changelings into Doppelgangers in their race description for Eberron and the core. But what does this mean for the chronology of Eberron? Has there always been a race of shape shifting tricksters living among the population of Eberron? I was just wondering if the Baker has chimed in on this at any point.


prototype00

#2

LordofKhyber

Oct 06, 2009 11:27:41

It's always been like this in Eberron, just unofficially iirc.

#3

prototype00

Oct 06, 2009 11:36:07

I thought changelings were the children of Doppelgangers and Humans? There was this whole subplot where it was supposedly influenced by the Traveler to spread his purpose across Khorvaire?


prototype00

#4

Hellcow

Oct 06, 2009 12:04:36

I know that they ret-conned Changelings into Doppelgangers in their race description for Eberron and the core. But what does this mean for the chronology of Eberron? Has there always been a race of shape shifting tricksters living among the population of Eberron? I was just wondering if the Baker has chimed in on this at any point.


Actually, the 10-page Eberron proposal submitted in the Fantasy Setting Search had dopplegangers as a PC race, using a Savage Species style monster class. The idea was that it took time for a doppleganger to hone its telepathic gifts. WotC didn't want to do a monster class or ECL player race, so changelings appeared as a LA +0 compromise.

As I see it in 4E, this remains the case. "Doppelganger" is term used for an aggressive or dangerous changeling, one who is seen as a threat. "Changeling" is a more friendly term. As such, it is still the case that you may get a changeling when a doppelganger infiltrates a village and impregnates a local. It just happens that father and child are the same species as opposed to having a watered-down hybrid... but the principle is the same. And again, doppelgangers/changelings have a natural gift for telepathy, but it's something they have to work to develop... which is to say that you'll see NPC doppelgangers with abilities like "Cloud Mind", and if a PC wants something like that, he could become a psion... which in his case reflects drawing on his innate potential as opposed to a purely learned talent.

#5

prototype00

Oct 06, 2009 13:59:41

Thank you so much for the reply! Thats really cool that 4e allows an element of the original proposal to be realized more fully (or so it seems at least). 


How is the around the world trip going?


prototype00

#6

Hellcow

Oct 08, 2009 13:01:57

The trip is going OK. On hold for now until my novel gets done.

#7

weenog42

Oct 12, 2009 19:56:10

On a somewhat similar note - how does changeling procreation work?  From the scenario above wherin a doppleganger infiltrates a village, dopplegangers/changelings can impregnate compatible races when shapechanged.  One assumes therefore that they can become pregnant while shapechanged as well.


What if they are shapechanged to the opposite sex - could a naturally male changeling decide to become female in order to experience the joys of childbirth?  Or is a trans-gender changeling sterile?  And I assume a pregnant changeling is able to shapechange in such a way as to avoid damaging the fetus.

#8

Hellcow

Oct 12, 2009 20:09:28

On a somewhat similar note - how does changeling procreation work?  From the scenario above wherin a doppleganger infiltrates a village, dopplegangers/changelings can impregnate compatible races when shapechanged.


I consider this to be true, with the offspring coming out either as a changeling or as a member of the other donor race. As such, you don't half a half-elf/half-changeling or half-dwarf/half changeling; you end up with either a full elf or full changeling.


What if they are shapechanged to the opposite sex - could a naturally male changeling decide to become female in order to experience the joys of childbirth?


This is a point of contention and different Eberron designers will give you different answers.


Personally, I say that there's no such thing as a "male changeling". You can have a changeling that was BORN male and prefers to remain in a male identity. But in my opinion all changelings are innately capable of switching gender. This is not a matter of consciously changing individual organs, so it's not like a changeling can choose to create gills or grow an extra heart. It's simply that it's a biological switch that a changeling can throw one way or the other, with all of the associated changes occuring subconsciously when the switch gets flipped. This also means that changelings approach gender in a different way than other creatures. A changeling who lives among humans and spends most of its life in a single identity may develop gender identity as a human would. But in my opinion, a changeling from Lost or the Gray Tide sees gender as just one more element of a particular identity - something that changes to express its mood.


By my explanation, a pregnant changeling cannot ACTUALLY change gender without losing the child. However, they can still perform cosmetic changes while pregnant, so a pregnant changeling could appear male - they just couldn't function as male while pregnant.


However, other designers might say that changelings have a single gender identity, that exterior appearance is purely cosmetic, and thus a changeling born male cannot truly become female and become pregnant, even if it can appear to be female.

#9

PJammaGod

Oct 13, 2009 0:21:49

Races of Eberron, pg 110 had a feat called Racial Emulation, that let's a Changeling effectively "become" a specific race it can shape into for the purposes of various rule mechanics. Jump back to page 45 and you have the following paragraph.


"Two changeling parents breed a changeling child. A changeling and a humanoid can mate to produce offspring with the child having a 50% chance to be of either race. If a changeling with the Racial Emulation feat (see page 110) matches it's subtype to that of a partner, a child resulting from that union with always be of that humanoid subtype (in other words if you're emulating a dwarf, your child is always a dwarf).


If a changeling in female form concieves a child, she loses the ability to change her gender until after the child is born"


Should help things out a little.

#10

Alas

Oct 13, 2009 7:45:09

I've always liked the fact that Eberron provided us with both the warforged, which have no (biological) gender, and the changelings, which have caused a great deal of gender confusion.

#11

PJammaGod

Oct 13, 2009 8:56:26

Eberron, helping establish metrosexuality in gaming since 2004 :P (please don't smite me for this)

#12

dieffenbachj

Oct 13, 2009 12:15:53


I've always liked the fact that Eberron provided us with both the warforged, which have no (biological) gender, and the changelings, which have caused a great deal of gender confusion.




Don't forget the shifter women...

#13

Cyber-Dave

Oct 16, 2009 13:23:09

Its true. Eberron is very LGBTQ friendly...

#14

dremik-the-taupe

Oct 23, 2009 13:22:39

And that's why it is THE premium 4e setting.


Eberron, where even robots have equal rights.