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Changelings.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
typhus_the_souleater
Mar 18, 2009 22:30:50 Do you think they will remake Changelings for 4thed? I know they got doppelgangers as a race or something the mm but i am hoping for the changelings. Peace out.
#2
skrapsan
Mar 18, 2009 23:36:07 I have heard several times on the forum that Doppelgangers are going to be the race they "expand" upon in Eberron as they did with Drow in the forgotten realms. I'm not sure where the source of that information is, but enough people is blabbering on about it for it to be at least plausible. And then I guess the new race to be introduced is Kalashtar. When it comes to the whole changeling/doppelganger in 4th edition Keith Baker had the suggestion that it is two different names for the same thing. Only changeling is when you talk about them in a positive manner, and doppelganger is when you lay down some good old racism.

Hope it was informative.
#3
JohnLynch
Mar 19, 2009 1:40:05
I have heard several times on the forum that Doppelgangers are going to be the race they "expand" upon in Eberron as they did with Drow in the forgotten realms.

Unfortunately there's a few too many races that belong in the Eberron book. We have Kalashtar, Warforged and Dopplegangers. Everyone's predictions tend to be a subset of these 3 (my personal guess is Kalashtar and Warforged).

Coming in to D&D with 4th ed, I have no idea what the difference is between the two races and don't see any real need for them to be mechanically different.
#4
skrapsan
Mar 19, 2009 9:19:34
Unfortunately there's a few too many races that belong in the Eberron book. We have Kalashtar, Warforged and Dopplegangers. Everyone's predictions tend to be a subset of these 3 (my personal guess is Kalashtar and Warforged).

Coming in to D&D with 4th ed, I have no idea what the difference is between the two races and don't see any real need for them to be mechanically different.

1st: Warforged got their playability from this article here. So that race is taken care of so to speak. Kalashtar is not mentioned anywhere or in any books that I know of, and I imagine that the forums would boil over if they were.

So if we asume they are going to follow the path that Forgotten Realms took they are going to release a new race with the campaign setting and brush up on an old one. In their case the Drow (old) and Genasi (new).
So for Eberron I imagine that it would be Kalashtar (new) since we have not seen anything about it yet. And Changeling/doppelganger (old). Since it was such a key element of the Noir ellements of Eberron. And it was one of the 3 new races in the old campaign setting.

2nd: Doppelganger in 3rd edition was much more competent at the whole change shape and stealing you identity thing. And the changeling were a result of doppelgangers that produced offspring with other races than themselves. And in the end ending up changelings who were quite good at it, but still no way near the doppelganger.

Hope that helps.
#5
typhus_the_souleater
Mar 19, 2009 9:51:59 My thing is, I hope they Have the Kalashstar, Warforged and Changelings in it. I don't see expanding on it just maybe 10 or someodd pages. But the only thing is there are really no psionic classes out yet, so i figured they would put them in a PHB (Refering to the kalashastar). I'd like there to be a difference between the two. But to quote a famous someone

"You Can't always get what ya want."

But

"If you try sometimes ya get what ya need!"

CHeers.
#6
skrapsan
Mar 19, 2009 14:07:44
"You Can't always get what ya want."

But

"If you try sometimes ya get what ya need!"

CHeers.

Cant argue with the Rolling stones...

Now I do remember that Keith Baker mentioned that even though warforged is made a playable race already it is not nesecerly a Eberron warforged. So even though I don't really think we will see any more crunch on the basics of the race. I do imagine that we will see at least a few more racial feats, maybe a paragon path or two and the occasional magical items. Note that this is only my speculations. I hold no authoroty and I definitively do not know what Wizards are cooking up in that hive mind of theirs...
#7
Nived
Mar 19, 2009 19:38:46 Its been a llong time, but I'm pretty sure they said last year at GenCon that we'd see the Doppleganger (Changling) and the Kalashtar in the 4E Player's Guide, maybe Warforged again, though as said they've gotten a write up already in Dragon.

When asked about the Kalashtar coming out before 4E psionics dropped they said that the Kalashtar would have racial abilities that will mesh with Psionics when it does drop, and also The Path of Light will be expanded upon a bit and that they will also be strong canadates for divine classes.
#8
salla
Mar 19, 2009 19:53:53 3e needed to differentiate Doppelgangers and Changelings because of rules like racial HD and level adjustment; they basically had to create a toned-down hybrid version that was acceptable as a LA 0 PC.

4e does not have that problem, since PC races are designed as PC races and monsters are monsters. You can just be a doppelganger, no need for the changeling 'half-race'.
#9
JohnLynch
Mar 20, 2009 8:49:04
1st: Warforged got their playability from this article here. So that race is taken care of so to speak.

Yeah, there's lots of speculation as to whether or not that will be the final word on Warforged.

2nd: Doppelganger in 3rd edition was much more competent at the whole change shape and stealing you identity thing. And the changeling were a result of doppelgangers that produced offspring with other races than themselves. And in the end ending up changelings who were quite good at it, but still no way near the doppelganger.

Hope that helps.

Yeah, I'm not seeing any major need to have the 2 versions.
#10
skrapsan
Mar 20, 2009 11:07:09 There is no reason to have a difference between the two in 4th edition. But in 3rd the doppelganger was cool and worked with the fluff and feel of the world. But it was way to powerful, thus the changeling was created. And then in 4th ed when they merged them, and well then that was that.
#11
AvonRekaes
Mar 20, 2009 11:34:43 It would be cool if there was some sort of cultural divide between "changelings" and "dopplegangers".

Like, when one is born and just goes through life, they're a changeling. But a changeling can throw himself fully into his heritage and unearth latent abilities like mind reading, and then becomes known as a "doppleganger". In terms of mechanics, say, taking a bunch of racial feats and a racial paragon path would make a changeling be known in the game world as a doppleganger.

This way, the "Dopplegangers are scarier and more powerful than Changelings" is still in effect, and the hierchy of organizations like the Cabinet of Faces and the Tyrant changeling mafia in Sharn would be maintained.
#12
oid
Mar 21, 2009 17:28:41 the doppleganger in the MM looks a lot like the changeling. but, i've heard that the changeling has to choose between an Int bonus and a Cha bonus. if there are any other differences i don't kno any. but if the doppleganger is the new changeling that's fine. i don't realy see a need to have two seperate races, beyond flavor.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 typhus_the_souleater Mar 18, 2009 22:30:50	Do you think they will remake Changelings for 4thed? I know they got doppelgangers as a race or something the mm but i am hoping for the changelings. Peace out.
#2 skrapsan Mar 18, 2009 23:36:07	I have heard several times on the forum that Doppelgangers are going to be the race they "expand" upon in Eberron as they did with Drow in the forgotten realms. I'm not sure where the source of that information is, but enough people is blabbering on about it for it to be at least plausible. And then I guess the new race to be introduced is Kalashtar. When it comes to the whole changeling/doppelganger in 4th edition Keith Baker had the suggestion that it is two different names for the same thing. Only changeling is when you talk about them in a positive manner, and doppelganger is when you lay down some good old racism. Hope it was informative.
#3 JohnLynch Mar 19, 2009 1:40:05	I have heard several times on the forum that Doppelgangers are going to be the race they "expand" upon in Eberron as they did with Drow in the forgotten realms. Unfortunately there's a few too many races that belong in the Eberron book. We have Kalashtar, Warforged and Dopplegangers. Everyone's predictions tend to be a subset of these 3 (my personal guess is Kalashtar and Warforged). Coming in to D&D with 4th ed, I have no idea what the difference is between the two races and don't see any real need for them to be mechanically different.
#4 skrapsan Mar 19, 2009 9:19:34	Unfortunately there's a few too many races that belong in the Eberron book. We have Kalashtar, Warforged and Dopplegangers. Everyone's predictions tend to be a subset of these 3 (my personal guess is Kalashtar and Warforged). Coming in to D&D with 4th ed, I have no idea what the difference is between the two races and don't see any real need for them to be mechanically different. 1st: Warforged got their playability from this article here. So that race is taken care of so to speak. Kalashtar is not mentioned anywhere or in any books that I know of, and I imagine that the forums would boil over if they were. So if we asume they are going to follow the path that Forgotten Realms took they are going to release a new race with the campaign setting and brush up on an old one. In their case the Drow (old) and Genasi (new). So for Eberron I imagine that it would be Kalashtar (new) since we have not seen anything about it yet. And Changeling/doppelganger (old). Since it was such a key element of the Noir ellements of Eberron. And it was one of the 3 new races in the old campaign setting. 2nd: Doppelganger in 3rd edition was much more competent at the whole change shape and stealing you identity thing. And the changeling were a result of doppelgangers that produced offspring with other races than themselves. And in the end ending up changelings who were quite good at it, but still no way near the doppelganger. Hope that helps.
#5 typhus_the_souleater Mar 19, 2009 9:51:59	My thing is, I hope they Have the Kalashstar, Warforged and Changelings in it. I don't see expanding on it just maybe 10 or someodd pages. But the only thing is there are really no psionic classes out yet, so i figured they would put them in a PHB (Refering to the kalashastar). I'd like there to be a difference between the two. But to quote a famous someone "You Can't always get what ya want." But "If you try sometimes ya get what ya need!" CHeers.
#6 skrapsan Mar 19, 2009 14:07:44	"You Can't always get what ya want." But "If you try sometimes ya get what ya need!" CHeers. Cant argue with the Rolling stones... Now I do remember that Keith Baker mentioned that even though warforged is made a playable race already it is not nesecerly a Eberron warforged. So even though I don't really think we will see any more crunch on the basics of the race. I do imagine that we will see at least a few more racial feats, maybe a paragon path or two and the occasional magical items. Note that this is only my speculations. I hold no authoroty and I definitively do not know what Wizards are cooking up in that hive mind of theirs...
#7 Nived Mar 19, 2009 19:38:46	Its been a llong time, but I'm pretty sure they said last year at GenCon that we'd see the Doppleganger (Changling) and the Kalashtar in the 4E Player's Guide, maybe Warforged again, though as said they've gotten a write up already in Dragon. When asked about the Kalashtar coming out before 4E psionics dropped they said that the Kalashtar would have racial abilities that will mesh with Psionics when it does drop, and also The Path of Light will be expanded upon a bit and that they will also be strong canadates for divine classes.
#8 salla Mar 19, 2009 19:53:53	3e needed to differentiate Doppelgangers and Changelings because of rules like racial HD and level adjustment; they basically had to create a toned-down hybrid version that was acceptable as a LA 0 PC. 4e does not have that problem, since PC races are designed as PC races and monsters are monsters. You can just be a doppelganger, no need for the changeling 'half-race'.
#9 JohnLynch Mar 20, 2009 8:49:04	1st: Warforged got their playability from this article here. So that race is taken care of so to speak. Yeah, there's lots of speculation as to whether or not that will be the final word on Warforged. 2nd: Doppelganger in 3rd edition was much more competent at the whole change shape and stealing you identity thing. And the changeling were a result of doppelgangers that produced offspring with other races than themselves. And in the end ending up changelings who were quite good at it, but still no way near the doppelganger. Hope that helps. Yeah, I'm not seeing any major need to have the 2 versions.
#10 skrapsan Mar 20, 2009 11:07:09	There is no reason to have a difference between the two in 4th edition. But in 3rd the doppelganger was cool and worked with the fluff and feel of the world. But it was way to powerful, thus the changeling was created. And then in 4th ed when they merged them, and well then that was that.
#11 AvonRekaes Mar 20, 2009 11:34:43	It would be cool if there was some sort of cultural divide between "changelings" and "dopplegangers". Like, when one is born and just goes through life, they're a changeling. But a changeling can throw himself fully into his heritage and unearth latent abilities like mind reading, and then becomes known as a "doppleganger". In terms of mechanics, say, taking a bunch of racial feats and a racial paragon path would make a changeling be known in the game world as a doppleganger. This way, the "Dopplegangers are scarier and more powerful than Changelings" is still in effect, and the hierchy of organizations like the Cabinet of Faces and the Tyrant changeling mafia in Sharn would be maintained.
#12 oid Mar 21, 2009 17:28:41	the doppleganger in the MM looks a lot like the changeling. but, i've heard that the changeling has to choose between an Int bonus and a Cha bonus. if there are any other differences i don't kno any. but if the doppleganger is the new changeling that's fine. i don't realy see a need to have two seperate races, beyond flavor.