Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Syltorian May 26, 2013 6:28:10	I have been toying with the following idea for a character for a long time now, shelved the idea, and recently returned to the concept. But have some problems putting down her, well, character: Anathi Ellorrenthi d'Phiarlan was in Metrol on the Day of Mourning. Her House evacuated as soon as they recognised the danger (thanks to the Mark of Shadows), but Anathi rushed back at the last moment to rescue another fugitive. She then activated her own Mark to flee into the Plane of Shadows (Shadow Walk), but was caught up by the mists during the transition. The magic of the Mourning fused her Mark to the Plane of Shadows, in game terms granting her the Shade Template (technically Forgotten Realms, but also available in Dragon Magazine 322) and possibly, just for roleplaying fun, the Shadar-Kais' Shadow Curse. Up until this day, she was a fairly minor agent of the Serpentine Table and mostly a performer; but her new powers have boosted her up in the Serpentine Table. Personality wise, I have so far got the following: if I understand House Phiarlan correctly, their prime purpose is to keep peace (or at least the status quo) - even during their days on Aerenal. The Last War was probably their biggest failure, since they never saw it coming. Building on this, I have a character who has an absolute trust her house will not send her on an 'evil' mission, and will thus accept assassination contracts; a character who is highly disciplined, but one who would also go on personal missions if she sees an injustice being performed (like working against local criminals and feeling she has to help the displaced Cyrans). She gives to charity and helps people without the money to afford a Serpentine agent pro bono; she is generally empathetic; but on the other hands, she will put the mission above all else. She'll go out of her way to avoid killing innocents, but will consider assassination and torture (though she'd prefer mind-reading and blackmail). So, now to the questions: 1) What kind of psychological influence would the Mourning and her being bound to the Plane of Shadows have on her character? The Plane of Shadow is largely one of muted colours and emotions (which to me reads lack of motivation, and depression), but that seems to be at odds with an artist (as a Phiarlan) and a hero (as a player character). I was thinking some melancholy, but want to avoid an annoyingly angsty character. The same goes for the effects of the Mourning, which she half-escaped - the Mourntouched (Dragon Magazine 349 article by Keith Baker) tend to be emotionless. So any help getting around this problem and fleshing out her psychological drives would be very appreciated.   2) I don't like alignment much as a concept, but it's part of the rules. So here goes: would the character, as described, be Lawful Neutral, or should she be Lawful Evil of the Kaius III type?  3) How will forces interested in Dragonmarks and/or the Mourning react to her? Since she's a unique case, I don't believe that they will know about her at first, but certainly House Phiarlan does. So, what does this mean for her interaction with the Twelve, the Chamber, the Mosaic Committee, etc.? 4) Any other suggestions to make this an interesting concept are also welcome. I'm aware of the Umbragen, but want to avoid too many similarities - similarities are actually not intended. Disclaimers: This is currently a purely personal project. I like building characters, but haven't got an actual group to play with at the moment. I therefore cannot ask my DM. As far as rules are concerned (if that matters), I'm using 3.5 (3.0 is OK).
#2 Syltorian May 29, 2013 6:25:58	Apart from a bump (help, please!); I'm toying with another idea I about which I would like your opinions. Would it be possible to combine this with a Shadow Sibling symbiont (Magic of Eberron: 156)? A shadow twin seems to make sense, though more if it could be changed to "outsider (extraplanar") and stripped of its Daelkyr connections. Would that make sense/be reasonable within the rules/game balance? In either case, can a symbiont be affected separetely from the host by certain spells (the description mentions I doesn't take damage while attached, but does not mention spells). By this I mean detect spells (either outsider as per my plan, or aberrations), banishment (if my conversion to outsider is accepted for this instance), or spells like invoke the cerulean sign (if not)? Also, can the "partially blocks ambient light" be interpreted to grant use of a Shade's abilities even under normal conditions of daylight? If not, what other means are available to get such a benefit, short of permanently carrying an parasol around? And please also provide some feedback for the original questions! Many thanks!
#3 Madfox11 Jun 24, 2013 5:12:10	While the Shadowfell itself seems to mute emotions and induce depression, giving in to those emotions tend to kill the person in question. As a result shadar-kai for example are the exact opposite of emtionless and depressed. They are prone to extreme emotions, actively looking for situations that induce such emotions in an attempt to feel alive and to stay alive. In other words, it really wouldn't be too far fetched to make your character somewhat manic, a hedonist with a zest for life constantly fighting a depression (and fearing that giving in would kill her) and consider her witnessing the Mourning a deep distrust for war and powerful magics. As for your character being a shade, I doubt it would draw too much attention from those around you. In a world filled with different races and various types of magic, your character is not all that weird. In fact, since you are a member of House Phiarlann most would assume your manipulations of shadows is a result of a Dragon Mark (which you apparently do have). Your character might run the risk of being asociated with the Shadow by default, or as some kind of dark demon by uneducated religious Silver Flame fanatics, but that should not be too common, again, since most would think you are simply using your mark.
#4 Syltorian Jun 26, 2013 12:34:13	Thanks for the reply! They offer a lot to think about. While the Shadowfell itself seems to mute emotions and induce depression, giving in to those emotions tend to kill the person in question. As a result shadar-kai for example are the exact opposite of emtionless and depressed. They are prone to extreme emotions, actively looking for situations that induce such emotions in an attempt to feel alive and to stay alive. In other words, it really wouldn't be too far fetched to make your character somewhat manic, a hedonist with a zest for life constantly fighting a depression (and fearing that giving in would kill her) and consider her witnessing the Mourning a deep distrust for war and powerful magics (…) Interesting. I didn’t know that the shadar-kai are thrill-seekers; I’ve mostly seen them as serious, almost nihilistic, creatures. Fighting the depression by seeking to overcompensate is an interesting option, since I’d already thought about her one big fear being to lose herself completely to the Shadowplane’s lethargy (and I believe she noticed that she has become far more emotionally detached when on an assassination mission). Your input certainly helps a lot here. I’ll need to find a balance though, since in my mind, she’s more of a calm person. So it would be more a way of getting really intense, rather than flying off the hook; losing herself in art and music instead of ending up in a bacchanal?   (…) and consider her witnessing the Mourning a deep distrust for war and powerful magics. As regards the Mourning, you gave me something else to work with. It is certainly one of her major goals to figure out what happened, even if she is not necessarily ready to reveal it to all and sundry (which is not the way of House Phiarlan, and the best way, as Keith Baker has repeatedly pointed out, to get the war restarted). I’ll have to explore more what witnessing the Mourning meant; there were the horrors, but it also gave her some power, so part of her might actually feel... connected. Which certainly worries her. As for distrusting powerful magic, it might be interesting to make it her goal not necessarily to prevent them, but to prevent them falling into the wrong hands (i.e. any other than those of her House, whom she trusts explicitly). Do you think that would work? As for your character being a shade, I doubt it would draw too much attention from those around you. In a world filled with different races and various types of magic, your character is not all that weird. In fact, since you are a member of House Phiarlann most would assume your manipulations of shadows is a result of a Dragon Mark (which you apparently do have). I was actually planning to re-flavour the Shade template in this case to make all the powers connected to the Shadow Mark. That is, whenever she uses Shade powers, she feels the Mark as if she was using one of its powers. Something that enhances or suppresses the Mark will also work against her Shade Powers. And so on. But that’s exactly the problem. True, Joe Breland won’t know the difference, but I’m more worried about those who would have the ability to know and understand that these are not normal powers of the Mark. Joe Breland also won't be trying to bathe her in dragonfire or lock her up in a laboratory for being an aberration of prophecy/interesting test object. The dragons were upset enough when the dragonmarks appeared on “lesser races” and wiped out House Vol for mingling the blood of dragons with that of dragonmarked. The Mosaic Committee believes that the Draconic Prophecy leads to the doom of the world. Erandis Vol is always interested in ways that change the marks. And House Phiarlan itself will be most aware that one of their own agents can suddenly do things that none of their other heirs are able to do, and something that’s even weirder than a Siberys mark. Your character might run the risk of being asociated with the Shadow by default, or as some kind of dark demon by uneducated religious Silver Flame fanatics, but that should not be too common, again, since most would think you are simply using your mark. This actually connects to something else I was wondering about. What does House Phiarlan believe in, religiously? Have they adopted the faiths of the humans? It’s has been discussed  before (by Keith, largely) that they still have relations to the Undying Court, but do not venerate them; they still use ancestor performances, so something like the Tairnadal faith seems to be at work, but they don’t believe they can become avatars of their ancestors through these performances... By the way, being mistaken for a creature or worshipper of the Shadow could be quite interesting. You’ve just given me an angle to work my way into Dhaask and Droaam, where many people worship the Shadow as a (sometimes even benevolent) creator, rather than following the Sovereign doctrine of him being an evil deity of perverted magics.
#5 Madfox11 Jun 27, 2013 3:36:17	I’ll need to find a balance though, since in my mind, she’s more of a calm person. So it would be more a way of getting really intense, rather than flying off the hook; losing herself in art and music instead of ending up in a bacchanal? Sure. It doesn't come into play often. My Phiarlann character loves music and opera and on occassion his somewhat eclectic tastes have made an appearance through game play (eg when visting Greywall going out of his way to see a harpy perform). It also reminds me of Sherlock Holmes and his love for the violin ;) As for distrusting powerful magic, it might be interesting to make it her goal not necessarily to prevent them, but to prevent them falling into the wrong hands (i.e. any other than those of her House, whom she trusts explicitly). Do you think that would work? Sure, that works very well with a Phiarlann character. Just be careful that it does not cause a clash with the rest of the group. You do not want to be the headstrong character that keeps arguing for ever about not giving the McGuffin to the NPCs ;) I was actually planning to re-flavour the Shade template in this case to make all the powers connected to the Shadow Mark. That is, whenever she uses Shade powers, she feels the Mark as if she was using one of its powers. Something that enhances or suppresses the Mark will also work against her Shade Powers. And so on. But that’s exactly the problem. True, Joe Breland won’t know the difference, but I’m more worried about those who would have the ability to know and understand that these are not normal powers of the Mark. Joe Breland also won't be trying to bathe her in dragonfire or lock her up in a laboratory for being an aberration of prophecy/interesting test object. It is not as if people fully understand the Dragon Mark abilities in the first place. The powers of a shade are a natural extension of the Mark of Shadows anyway. Of course, it becomes another story if people realize you empowered the mark somehow through connecting with Mabar (assuming I remember the name of the Shadowfell like plane of Eberron). It might interest a few with a specific interest, especially in your own house, since they might want to replicate the effect with the Mark of Shadows or the other marks. The dragons were upset enough when the dragonmarks appeared on “lesser races” and wiped out House Vol for mingling the blood of dragons with that of dragonmarked. The Mosaic Committee believes that the Draconic Prophecy leads to the doom of the world. Erandis Vol is always interested in ways that change the marks. And House Phiarlan itself will be most aware that one of their own agents can suddenly do things that none of their other heirs are able to do, and something that’s even weirder than a Siberys mark. I don't think this is all that weird actually. It certainly does not compare with the Vol incident, which had nothing to do with the mark and everything with dragons and elves mixing blood. Dragonshards for example are used regularly to enhance the power of a mark, and while mechanics might suggest the effects of the marks are well defined, that is far from true. After all, just take a look at the Dragonmark book which is filled with new feats that enhance and modify the basic marks. To me that suggests the things are fluid. Even to your house, they would be curious, but it could be just as much natural talent and training then a specific magic event. This actually connects to something else I was wondering about. What does House Phiarlan believe in, religiously? Have they adopted the faiths of the humans? It’s has been discussed  before (by Keith, largely) that they still have relations to the Undying Court, but do not venerate them; they still use ancestor performances, so something like the Tairnadal faith seems to be at work, but they don’t believe they can become avatars of their ancestors through these performances... Don't they? ;) This is something you need to discuss with your DM. For all we know, the House might still be performing according to the elf prophecies that are the foundation of Aeranal ;) Still, my own Phiarlann PC 'worships' the Sovereign Host and has learned to respect the Silver Flame (realizing there is a difference between the Church and Thrane by now). I use quotes, because in reality he is not an overly religious type. People make their own fate. Ultimately this is something for you to decide upon.
#6 Syltorian Jun 27, 2013 4:25:30	Many thanks again for your time and your input. Sure. It doesn't come into play often. My Phiarlann character loves music and opera and on occassion his somewhat eclectic tastes have made an appearance through game play (eg when visting Greywall going out of his way to see a harpy perform). It also reminds me of Sherlock Holmes and his love for the violin ;) Nice comparison. As a Phiarlan and Cyran-born, she certainly goes in for the “Cyran appreciation”, and there are quite a few operas of the more ecclectic and exoteric type I can see as appropriate for Cyre. Grand Wagnerian stuff is probably Karrnathi, but but the Enchanted Flute and all those relying on maskerades (Marriage of Figaro, etc) seems to be quite Cyran. It’s probably the latter she will go for. Sure, that works very well with a Phiarlann character. Just be careful that it does not cause a clash with the rest of the group. You do not want to be the headstrong character that keeps arguing for ever about not giving the McGuffin to the NPCs ;) Oh, she’ll be giving it to the NPC alright. Complete with tracking magic and possibly a conditional curse, subtle sabotage, magical bypass, etc (if she can get the item passed through Phiarlan “Q” team briefly and secretly), and full information about the NPC for the Phiarlan surveillance and retrieval teams. It is not as if people fully understand the Dragon Mark abilities in the first place. The powers of a shade are a natural extension of the Mark of Shadows anyway. True. But that is exactly why people might be interested. Magic in Eberron is based on research, and anything new that happens (including the upsurge of lesser and greater aberrant marks, also presented as feats in Dragonmarked) will draw the eyes of researchers. Of course, it becomes another story if people realize you empowered the mark somehow through connecting with Mabar (assuming I remember the name of the Shadowfell like plane of Eberron). It might interest a few with a specific interest, especially in your own house, since they might want to replicate the effect with the Mark of Shadows or the other marks. On the first part, I’m using 3.5 and the 3.5 cosmology. Hence, the Plane of Shadows and Mabar are different places. Mabar is the source of negative energy and eternal hunger, and of darkness because it devours light as well as life. For shadows, one still needs light. It certainly does not compare with the Vol incident, which had nothing to do with the mark and everything with dragons and elves mixing blood. Agreed, but it also gave Erandis a dragonmark that was incredibly powerful, if the little information we have is correct (and whether it is, is up to the DM, naturally). While the whole purity-of-blood issue played a role, the influence on the dragonmark did, too. Some of the dragons did argue to destroy the dragonmarked races as soon as the marks appeared, so they seem to be wary of any change – hostile at worst to anything that changes their precious prophecy, interested at best (and I don’t think having a dragon become personally interested in you is necessarily a good thing).   Dragonshards for example are used regularly to enhance the power of a mark, and while mechanics might suggest the effects of the marks are well defined, that is far from true. After all, just take a look at the Dragonmark book which is filled with new feats that enhance and modify the basic marks. To me that suggests the things are fluid. Even to your house, they would be curious, but it could be just as much natural talent and training then a specific magic event. True. As you say the marks are very much a puzzle, even to the dragons and the Lords of Dust. It’s unfortunate, though, that Dragonmarked does not go into the details how new, exceptional, or rare these feats are; to some extent, it does this for the Aberrant Marks, which were confined to Least Marks since the War of the Mark and have only very recently began to approach something of the power they had in the old days – though still nowhere near that held by Tarkanan or the Lady of Plague. Don't they? ;) The Tairnadal will probably cry blasphemy! ;) Naturally, they, no more than anyone else in Eberron, has a perfect claim to truth. Still, my own Phiarlann PC 'worships' the Sovereign Host and has learned to respect the Silver Flame (realizing there is a difference between the Church and Thrane by now). For some reason, many of my characters tend to be skeptical of the Host as a whole. I’d say Anathi considers the Sovereigns not gods but risen dragons (as the Draconist sects say), and thus dismisses them as just some powerful but mortal creatures. Somewhat arrogant, to be sure, but hey Cyre was not known for humility or religious devotion! As for the Silver Flame, I don’t think she minds either the Church or Thrane. She certainly spent some time at the Demesne of Music in Flamekeep, and after all, the Church does try to keep the world out of the claws of the Rajahs, and whilst some Thrane officials may need to be “convinced” not to undertake certain missions that could destabilize the peace - or removed from office “with utmost prejudice” - the same holds true for power-players of all other nations and houses.
#7 Madfox11 Jun 27, 2013 5:05:26	It is up to you ;) Just rememeber that only one small sect sees the Host as risen dragons. Even the dragons don't see them as such. They just belief those dragons embody the ideals of said deity to such an extend that they have become the living embodiment of the god. They still are not the god itself. The deity in question simply is the force it represents. Since the Host never sends a direct avatar or even answers questions directly to a spell such as commune and you can have a cleric performing miracles while worshiping his shoes the world will never know for sure ;) Then again, my character is actually an eladrin orphan and rapidly becoming a physical embodiment of an aspect of nature or story (4e, aproaching epic): in other words a fey lord. Religion is not really something he cares about beyond the fact how it motivates people.
#8 Syltorian Jun 29, 2013 9:28:49	Just rememeber that only one small sect sees the Host as risen dragons. Even the dragons don't see them as such. They just belief those dragons embody the ideals of said deity to such an extend that they have become the living embodiment of the god. They still are not the god itself. The deity in question simply is the force it represents. I'll have to reread the section on draconic religion - we are talking Dragons of Eberron, I believe? I'm afraid that this is an aspect where I let my own, metagame knowledge influence my choice of my characters' believes: the comparison between the dragon Ouralonastrix who was influential in the First Age and the god Aureon is fairly evident. Naming the god after the first being to embody the ideal of magic and knowledge still works, though: but I don't claim that either I or my characters are right, either. And some of my characters do believe in the Host, though not necessarily in the commonly accepted way - my medusa sees Aureon as a spiteful god who seeks to keep the really important knowledge for himself, whilst the Shadow is not an evil entity but a Prometheus. On a side note, I reject the idea that the medusas were created by the Daelkyr (another of Eberron's mysteries left to the DM), and draw much closer to the original Greek story where Medusa was cursed for being the victim of a **** by Poseidon in Athena's temple. Except that in this case, the Shadow was there to help, and the offender was not a god, since, as you say, they do not manifest on Eberron in that fashion - unless they did in the past, there are stories about the Traveller, after all. In my Eberron, that's the medusa's story of their origin, anyway; they might be right, and they might be wrong, and even if they are right, the Shadow might have helped them out of other motives than pity. Still, we're drifting into a different character thread... Since the Host never sends a direct avatar or even answers questions directly to a spell such as commune and you can have a cleric performing miracles while worshiping his shoes the world will never know for sure ;) His shoes do show up though! They have manifested! As long as there is no splinter group which starts worshipping his gourd... Then again, my character is actually an eladrin orphan and rapidly becoming a physical embodiment of an aspect of nature or story (4e, aproaching epic): in other words a fey lord. Religion is not really something he cares about beyond the fact how it motivates people. That seems appropriate for the way some people might see the gods, too: so long as the Church gets enough worshipers, they are happy. As for the rest, does this mean he will join the Sovereigns in one of the spheres beyond the planes, or become the Lord of a domain on Thelanis?
#9 Madfox11 Jul 02, 2013 3:01:10	That seems appropriate for the way some people might see the gods, too: so long as the Church gets enough worshipers, they are happy. As for the rest, does this mean he will join the Sovereigns in one of the spheres beyond the planes, or become the Lord of a domain on Thelanis. Baring an unforseen end at the and of a demon's claw, Daelkyr lord or Quori mind blast, he would become something of a representation of the Trickster in stories (Thief of Legend ED). He would be a Lord on Thelanis, and apparently the Lord of one of the Fey Spires. For the record, I don't mind that twist of the cliche lost royal heir, but that is fully on my DM. All I said was that my character was an orphan from the Spire from Cyre, raised by Phiarlann in Wroat. Obviously he had daydreams about being a lost prince (and now he is one he hates it), but I left it completely up to the DM ;) Although, admittedly, considering the connection between story and fey, the cliche actually makes sense.