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Civic Magic in Eberron

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Ogiwan
Feb 06, 2011 14:36:38 Greetings, all. I was paging through Five Nations, and I came to the following quote: "The country [Karrnath] stil lags behind in the civic accomplishments of the wizards of Aundair..."

So, now I'm curious: Does Aundair have a higher level of "civic" magic compared to the other countries? How would this manifest? Also, would this mean that Aundarian wizards, combined with Cannith artificers, would make "magical items" one of Aundair's major exports?

Discuss.
#2
Alex_
Feb 07, 2011 12:35:53 Yes, exactly that. Karrnath focuses more on the martial applications of magic: siege engines, new types of offensive spells, magical weapons, etc.

Aundair focuses more on utility and magical consumer goods. Its colleges are well known for their robust magical curriculums. More families have strong traditions of wizardry and artifice than in other lands. They're also known for their sense of fashion, so I would imagine that magical clothing and accessories would would be all the rage as well.
#3
robohobbit
Feb 07, 2011 15:54:17 Civic magic reminds me of a device mentioned in Keith Baker's "Queen of Stone" novel. At an inn one of the characters encounters a cleansing stone which magicly removes grime and oil from one's skin just by touching the stone. That just struck me as a great use of practical magic. I suppose that's really more domestic than civic oriented though.

For civic magic I would by thinking along the lines of modern civic technologies: plumbing, street lights, transportation, communication, indoor climate control, regulation of trade, public recreation, etc. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Aundair-style civil engineering. Here's a few magical answers to modern conveniences:

Fresh water from tiny gates to the elemental plane of water (stolen from Planescape: Torment)

Magically animated statues in the public square.

Illusions depicting a nation's historical events.

Magical music to keep the public entertained at the market. This could also function as a public address system during emergencies.

Magic amulets attuned to your Kundarak account. When the amulet is touched to a magical coffer connected to the Kundarak vault network, you may remove gold from your account. It's like a magical ATM or credit card.

A series of magical portals linked to each other within a city. There is no need for a horse if you can just teleport across town.

For all your Karrnath/Futurama crossover fans: a suicide booth that automatically turns you into a zombie, ready to serve your nation.

Some of these require pretty high-level magic, so I'm not sure how common they would be in Eberron. Maybe one of the wizard academies requires its students to perform a large-scale public project before it recognizes them as a master wizard.

What other magic items can you guys think of?
#4
Madfox11
Feb 08, 2011 7:18:18
It depends a bit on how common and cheap you want domestic magic to be. If for example, domestic magic for a fridge-like component is too expensive for the average citizen, than having central cold warehouses for food storage and delivery would make sense. Personally I have never been a big fan of the little magic stuff that replaces RL machines like many of the examples of Robohobbit. I am more a fan of magic applied on a bigger scale like lightning rails, airships or more civic minded stuff:
- pumps that keep the sewer working and fresh water available throughout the whole city*
- magic that cleans sewage before being dumped in the surface water*
- garbage process units*
- burial tombs that incinerate corpses or place them in extradimensional pockets (mostly in overcrowded cities with little free ground for burial such as in Sharn)*
- prisons blocked against teleportation, scrying and the like
- food distrubution and processing (e.g. the food-plants in Droaam)
- weather management for optimal harvesting

* In fact, a city like Sharn would be nearly impossible to keep livable without such processes.
#5
Ogiwan
Feb 08, 2011 8:26:40

- weather management for optimal harvesting

Isn't that a province of Lyrander's Raincallers Guild?

In any case, if you take Madfox's approach and just do large-scale civic magic, then House Cannith probably doesn't need to get involved. Maybe a little bit, just because, but by-and-large, don't need Cannith. However, if large amount of magic consumer goods were being created, thats where I see Cannith coming in. I bring this up because it is a possible point of strength for Cannith West; perhaps they are the wealthiest of the branches of the house because of the amount of consumer goods they create.
#6
Madfox11
Feb 08, 2011 8:37:57 Yes, weather magic is currently the province of Lyrander's Raincallers Guild, but that does not mean it cannot be something for a future civic project. In fact, involvement of any of the Dragonmark Houses does not exclude it being a civic project. For example, the development of the lightning rail was very much a co-project between Galifar, Orien and Cannith, and even now managing, let alone building new lines, requires involvement of both the local government and the two houses.

The Five Nation product obviously focusses on the organizations unique to those nations, but that does not mean that the Dragonmarked Houses would not be involved in local civic projects. In fact, I think that considering the expertise of the Houses with large scale projects and the development of complicated magical items, most large scale civic projects are better served by involving the Twelve than by trying to keep it in house. Cannith is certainly not only involved when it deals with large scale production. It also does a lot of research, and by no means, would refuse to work on more focussed projects such as garbage disposal if it generates them a profit, even more so, when the operation of the items require a dragonmark of one house or another.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ogiwan Feb 06, 2011 14:36:38	Greetings, all. I was paging through Five Nations, and I came to the following quote: "The country [Karrnath] stil lags behind in the civic accomplishments of the wizards of Aundair..." So, now I'm curious: Does Aundair have a higher level of "civic" magic compared to the other countries? How would this manifest? Also, would this mean that Aundarian wizards, combined with Cannith artificers, would make "magical items" one of Aundair's major exports? Discuss.
#2 Alex_ Feb 07, 2011 12:35:53	Yes, exactly that. Karrnath focuses more on the martial applications of magic: siege engines, new types of offensive spells, magical weapons, etc. Aundair focuses more on utility and magical consumer goods. Its colleges are well known for their robust magical curriculums. More families have strong traditions of wizardry and artifice than in other lands. They're also known for their sense of fashion, so I would imagine that magical clothing and accessories would would be all the rage as well.
#3 robohobbit Feb 07, 2011 15:54:17	Civic magic reminds me of a device mentioned in Keith Baker's "Queen of Stone" novel. At an inn one of the characters encounters a cleansing stone which magicly removes grime and oil from one's skin just by touching the stone. That just struck me as a great use of practical magic. I suppose that's really more domestic than civic oriented though. For civic magic I would by thinking along the lines of modern civic technologies: plumbing, street lights, transportation, communication, indoor climate control, regulation of trade, public recreation, etc. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Aundair-style civil engineering. Here's a few magical answers to modern conveniences: Fresh water from tiny gates to the elemental plane of water (stolen from Planescape: Torment) Magically animated statues in the public square. Illusions depicting a nation's historical events. Magical music to keep the public entertained at the market. This could also function as a public address system during emergencies. Magic amulets attuned to your Kundarak account. When the amulet is touched to a magical coffer connected to the Kundarak vault network, you may remove gold from your account. It's like a magical ATM or credit card. A series of magical portals linked to each other within a city. There is no need for a horse if you can just teleport across town. For all your Karrnath/Futurama crossover fans: a suicide booth that automatically turns you into a zombie, ready to serve your nation. Some of these require pretty high-level magic, so I'm not sure how common they would be in Eberron. Maybe one of the wizard academies requires its students to perform a large-scale public project before it recognizes them as a master wizard. What other magic items can you guys think of?
#4 Madfox11 Feb 08, 2011 7:18:18	It depends a bit on how common and cheap you want domestic magic to be. If for example, domestic magic for a fridge-like component is too expensive for the average citizen, than having central cold warehouses for food storage and delivery would make sense. Personally I have never been a big fan of the little magic stuff that replaces RL machines like many of the examples of Robohobbit. I am more a fan of magic applied on a bigger scale like lightning rails, airships or more civic minded stuff: - pumps that keep the sewer working and fresh water available throughout the whole city* - magic that cleans sewage before being dumped in the surface water* - garbage process units* - burial tombs that incinerate corpses or place them in extradimensional pockets (mostly in overcrowded cities with little free ground for burial such as in Sharn)* - prisons blocked against teleportation, scrying and the like - food distrubution and processing (e.g. the food-plants in Droaam) - weather management for optimal harvesting * In fact, a city like Sharn would be nearly impossible to keep livable without such processes.
#5 Ogiwan Feb 08, 2011 8:26:40	- weather management for optimal harvesting Isn't that a province of Lyrander's Raincallers Guild? In any case, if you take Madfox's approach and just do large-scale civic magic, then House Cannith probably doesn't need to get involved. Maybe a little bit, just because, but by-and-large, don't need Cannith. However, if large amount of magic consumer goods were being created, thats where I see Cannith coming in. I bring this up because it is a possible point of strength for Cannith West; perhaps they are the wealthiest of the branches of the house because of the amount of consumer goods they create.
#6 Madfox11 Feb 08, 2011 8:37:57	Yes, weather magic is currently the province of Lyrander's Raincallers Guild, but that does not mean it cannot be something for a future civic project. In fact, involvement of any of the Dragonmark Houses does not exclude it being a civic project. For example, the development of the lightning rail was very much a co-project between Galifar, Orien and Cannith, and even now managing, let alone building new lines, requires involvement of both the local government and the two houses. The Five Nation product obviously focusses on the organizations unique to those nations, but that does not mean that the Dragonmarked Houses would not be involved in local civic projects. In fact, I think that considering the expertise of the Houses with large scale projects and the development of complicated magical items, most large scale civic projects are better served by involving the Twelve than by trying to keep it in house. Cannith is certainly not only involved when it deals with large scale production. It also does a lot of research, and by no means, would refuse to work on more focussed projects such as garbage disposal if it generates them a profit, even more so, when the operation of the items require a dragonmark of one house or another.