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Critique my first skill challenge

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Talae
Aug 13, 2009 14:41:11 The below challenge is a conversion of an encounter from Eyes of the Lich Queen. Basically the room is full of spinning blades and two persistent harriers that are small enough to not be effected. The PCs need to get across to the triple locked door.

Here it is, let me know what you think:

I used the skill challenge for the trap and locked door while using a combant encounter for the harriers. I am debating using the whole thing as a skill challenge and raising the required successes to 12. Here is a rough draft using DCs found in DMG errata:

Setup: In order to navigate the room, the PCs need to bypass the spinning blades and the persistent harriers.
Level: 11th (Equal)
Complexity: 3 (requires 8 successes before 3 failures)
Primary Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Dungeoneering, and Thievery
Acrobatics (DC 16): You attempt to use agility and nimbleness to bypass the dangerous spinning blades. A failed DC is a failure and you take damage.
Athletics (DC 16): Being more forceful, you attempt to physically stop the mechanism in some mundane way and possibly leap or climb over it. A failed DC is a failure and you take damage.
Dungeoneering (DC 16): You make an attempt to find clues in the room to hint at similar situations in other dungeons you have been in. A success grants both a success and a +2 bonus and a failure a -2 penalty to another characters skill check this round.
Thievery (DC 21): Thievery can only be used after a successful Dungeoneering or Perception check. You work to disable the trap.
History/Arcana (DC 16): Relying on your studies, you attempt to determine a means to help defeat the trap. This doesn’t count toward success or failure but grants a +2 bonus your skill check in the following round.
Perception (DC 10): You notice something in the room that could help bypass the trap. Success and failure doesn’t count, but this grants a +2 bonus or -2 penalty to Thievery checks.
Success: If the PCs succeed, they are able to bypass the trap and the triple locked door.
Failure: Failure leaves the PCs in an interesting situation. The trap is currently impassable for one reason or another (such as broken due to incorrect attempts) and causes the PCs to expend additional healing surges due to the imminent danger of the blades.
#2
kawnell
Aug 13, 2009 20:09:25 a) Be aware that Clerics, Paladins, and Invokers have none of the Primary skills as class skills.

Questions:

Can your Thievery expert work for 8 successful checks and disable the trap?

If a character makes their Acrobatics check, are they on the opposite side of the trap?

If a character makes their Athletics check to break or dismantle part of the trap, what effect does that have on the trap? Does it stop working? Make certain squares safe? Make the trap less effective (less damage)? Will 8 successful Athletics checks destroy the trap?

Since the door is "triple locked", does that mean that disabling the door (locks) 3 times will open the door and allow for escape?

Just things to think about.

Have Fun
#3
Talae
Aug 13, 2009 20:55:17
a) Be aware that Clerics, Paladins, and Invokers have none of the Primary skills as class skills.

Of those I only have a cleric in the party. Any suggestions on what I could add as a primary skill and how so? Should I instead leave it as is?

Can your Thievery expert work for 8 successful checks and disable the trap?

I am tempted to limit each skill choice due to this being the first time I have used one and the first time any of will see one in game.

If a character makes their Acrobatics check, are they on the opposite side of the trap?

Again, I hope that they will need to incorporate numerous skills and therefore I would assume incremental gains in distance would work well for this. I am open for suggestions though.

If a character makes their Athletics check to break or dismantle part of the trap, what effect does that have on the trap? Does it stop working? Make certain squares safe? Make the trap less effective (less damage)? Will 8 successful Athletics checks destroy the trap?

I like the idea of safe squares, or at least temporarily safe squares. As for 8 successes, see same as above.

Since the door is "triple locked", does that mean that disabling the door (locks) 3 times will open the door and allow for escape?

Yes, although to do this they will need to get across the room of blades and the persistent harriers. In other words, it is a necessity, not an easy out.

Just things to think about.

Have Fun

Thanks. I appreciate it and look forward to further critique.

On a side note, you made me think about the fact that two of my players have the ability to teleport to the other side, one of with is trained in thievery. Suggestions on how to make this a benefit to the encounter instead of a downfall for fun?
#4
pivotal
Aug 14, 2009 6:43:29 Well, you could make the room too long for them to teleport through.

When it comes to characters that suck at skills I usually give them a way of helping out a bit. Such as the big barbarian disabling traps with his huge axe instead of skills. Basicly give the trap a AC of sorts and if he hits it they get a sucsess. If he misses they get a failure or perhaps he gets damaged.
#5
kawnell
Aug 14, 2009 13:33:39 I agree with Pivotal, raw damage (for traps) is a way to deal with the challenge.

I actually came up with another question, "What happens at 3 failures?"

This may come under the label of home brew, so I apologize if it doesn't fit with your concept.

You may want to divide up your hallway into danger sections, with a "safe spot" or two. You may even want to make certain squares dangerous on odd rounds, and others dangerous on even rounds (not unlike Robo Rally if you've played it).
Have the areas make attacks vs. Reflex or AC on their turn.
When a check to move (Acrobatics or Athletics) have a set number of squares they can gain (maybe half speed.)

As checks are made to disable or damage, either make those areas do less damage, make them a recharge, lower their attack bonus, etc.
As checks are failed, along with the damage, keep a tally.

At 3 failures of the same type, take that skill out of play to gain successes ("You've made the problem worse with your tinkering." "The components have been hardened to resist damage.")
Another way you could deal with failures is to give the traps an aura effect. "The traps are speeding up, everyone takes 3 damage from nicks and close shaves."

The successes in a skill challenge like this are a bit more conceptual.
With 5 characters and 8 successes needed, was that one success for each character to cross (movement) the hall, and 3 to unlock the door? Or is it 5 successes (thievery, damage, etc.) to shut down the trap, and 3 to unlock the door? So what happens when 2 characters successfully cross the hall, and 3 characters successfully damage the trap, and the tripple lock is picked? The 8 successes are there, but the objective isn't really completed (not everyone is across the hall, and the trapped hallway is still active.)

You could work around this by calling it 2 traps and a door (at the same level, would be the same XP reward) with the same DC's for disabling or bypassing each trap section, and then the 4 checks to bypass the door.
On the fly thought: Does the door have any religious significance? Religion checks (mini-ritual) could help in bypassing the door along with Arcana, Thieivery, or brute force.

mmm, my thought proccess just ran outta gas.

Have Fun
#6
Talae
Aug 14, 2009 14:00:47 I really like the random safe spots idea and plan to use that.

I like the idea of area damage for further failed checks. I will most likely use this (maybe individual damage for the first, area for the second and increased area for third and final).

I could make religion work for the door. It is a doorway that leads to the room where significant religous things are/events occured.

Do you think I should include the monsters in the skill challenge as check or run them simulaneously as a combat and skill challenge encounter?

How would I rewrite the above to include the information we have discussed? I ask because we might not get to this room this weekend and I don't want to forget anything.
#7
badmeditation
Aug 17, 2009 18:20:00
Well, you could make the room too long for them to teleport through.

When it comes to characters that suck at skills I usually give them a way of helping out a bit. Such as the big barbarian disabling traps with his huge axe instead of skills. Basicly give the trap a AC of sorts and if he hits it they get a sucsess. If he misses they get a failure or perhaps he gets damaged.

I think that's quite a good idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Talae Aug 13, 2009 14:41:11	The below challenge is a conversion of an encounter from Eyes of the Lich Queen. Basically the room is full of spinning blades and two persistent harriers that are small enough to not be effected. The PCs need to get across to the triple locked door. Here it is, let me know what you think: I used the skill challenge for the trap and locked door while using a combant encounter for the harriers. I am debating using the whole thing as a skill challenge and raising the required successes to 12. Here is a rough draft using DCs found in DMG errata: Setup: In order to navigate the room, the PCs need to bypass the spinning blades and the persistent harriers. Level: 11th (Equal) Complexity: 3 (requires 8 successes before 3 failures) Primary Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Dungeoneering, and Thievery Acrobatics (DC 16): You attempt to use agility and nimbleness to bypass the dangerous spinning blades. A failed DC is a failure and you take damage. Athletics (DC 16): Being more forceful, you attempt to physically stop the mechanism in some mundane way and possibly leap or climb over it. A failed DC is a failure and you take damage. Dungeoneering (DC 16): You make an attempt to find clues in the room to hint at similar situations in other dungeons you have been in. A success grants both a success and a +2 bonus and a failure a -2 penalty to another characters skill check this round. Thievery (DC 21): Thievery can only be used after a successful Dungeoneering or Perception check. You work to disable the trap. History/Arcana (DC 16): Relying on your studies, you attempt to determine a means to help defeat the trap. This doesn’t count toward success or failure but grants a +2 bonus your skill check in the following round. Perception (DC 10): You notice something in the room that could help bypass the trap. Success and failure doesn’t count, but this grants a +2 bonus or -2 penalty to Thievery checks. Success: If the PCs succeed, they are able to bypass the trap and the triple locked door. Failure: Failure leaves the PCs in an interesting situation. The trap is currently impassable for one reason or another (such as broken due to incorrect attempts) and causes the PCs to expend additional healing surges due to the imminent danger of the blades.
#2 kawnell Aug 13, 2009 20:09:25	a) Be aware that Clerics, Paladins, and Invokers have none of the Primary skills as class skills. Questions: Can your Thievery expert work for 8 successful checks and disable the trap? If a character makes their Acrobatics check, are they on the opposite side of the trap? If a character makes their Athletics check to break or dismantle part of the trap, what effect does that have on the trap? Does it stop working? Make certain squares safe? Make the trap less effective (less damage)? Will 8 successful Athletics checks destroy the trap? Since the door is "triple locked", does that mean that disabling the door (locks) 3 times will open the door and allow for escape? Just things to think about. Have Fun
#3 Talae Aug 13, 2009 20:55:17	a) Be aware that Clerics, Paladins, and Invokers have none of the Primary skills as class skills. Of those I only have a cleric in the party. Any suggestions on what I could add as a primary skill and how so? Should I instead leave it as is? Can your Thievery expert work for 8 successful checks and disable the trap? I am tempted to limit each skill choice due to this being the first time I have used one and the first time any of will see one in game. If a character makes their Acrobatics check, are they on the opposite side of the trap? Again, I hope that they will need to incorporate numerous skills and therefore I would assume incremental gains in distance would work well for this. I am open for suggestions though. If a character makes their Athletics check to break or dismantle part of the trap, what effect does that have on the trap? Does it stop working? Make certain squares safe? Make the trap less effective (less damage)? Will 8 successful Athletics checks destroy the trap? I like the idea of safe squares, or at least temporarily safe squares. As for 8 successes, see same as above. Since the door is "triple locked", does that mean that disabling the door (locks) 3 times will open the door and allow for escape? Yes, although to do this they will need to get across the room of blades and the persistent harriers. In other words, it is a necessity, not an easy out. Just things to think about. Have Fun Thanks. I appreciate it and look forward to further critique. On a side note, you made me think about the fact that two of my players have the ability to teleport to the other side, one of with is trained in thievery. Suggestions on how to make this a benefit to the encounter instead of a downfall for fun?
#4 pivotal Aug 14, 2009 6:43:29	Well, you could make the room too long for them to teleport through. When it comes to characters that suck at skills I usually give them a way of helping out a bit. Such as the big barbarian disabling traps with his huge axe instead of skills. Basicly give the trap a AC of sorts and if he hits it they get a sucsess. If he misses they get a failure or perhaps he gets damaged.
#5 kawnell Aug 14, 2009 13:33:39	I agree with Pivotal, raw damage (for traps) is a way to deal with the challenge. I actually came up with another question, "What happens at 3 failures?" This may come under the label of home brew, so I apologize if it doesn't fit with your concept. You may want to divide up your hallway into danger sections, with a "safe spot" or two. You may even want to make certain squares dangerous on odd rounds, and others dangerous on even rounds (not unlike Robo Rally if you've played it). Have the areas make attacks vs. Reflex or AC on their turn. When a check to move (Acrobatics or Athletics) have a set number of squares they can gain (maybe half speed.) As checks are made to disable or damage, either make those areas do less damage, make them a recharge, lower their attack bonus, etc. As checks are failed, along with the damage, keep a tally. At 3 failures of the same type, take that skill out of play to gain successes ("You've made the problem worse with your tinkering." "The components have been hardened to resist damage.") Another way you could deal with failures is to give the traps an aura effect. "The traps are speeding up, everyone takes 3 damage from nicks and close shaves." The successes in a skill challenge like this are a bit more conceptual. With 5 characters and 8 successes needed, was that one success for each character to cross (movement) the hall, and 3 to unlock the door? Or is it 5 successes (thievery, damage, etc.) to shut down the trap, and 3 to unlock the door? So what happens when 2 characters successfully cross the hall, and 3 characters successfully damage the trap, and the tripple lock is picked? The 8 successes are there, but the objective isn't really completed (not everyone is across the hall, and the trapped hallway is still active.) You could work around this by calling it 2 traps and a door (at the same level, would be the same XP reward) with the same DC's for disabling or bypassing each trap section, and then the 4 checks to bypass the door. On the fly thought: Does the door have any religious significance? Religion checks (mini-ritual) could help in bypassing the door along with Arcana, Thieivery, or brute force. mmm, my thought proccess just ran outta gas. Have Fun
#6 Talae Aug 14, 2009 14:00:47	I really like the random safe spots idea and plan to use that. I like the idea of area damage for further failed checks. I will most likely use this (maybe individual damage for the first, area for the second and increased area for third and final). I could make religion work for the door. It is a doorway that leads to the room where significant religous things are/events occured. Do you think I should include the monsters in the skill challenge as check or run them simulaneously as a combat and skill challenge encounter? How would I rewrite the above to include the information we have discussed? I ask because we might not get to this room this weekend and I don't want to forget anything.
#7 badmeditation Aug 17, 2009 18:20:00	Well, you could make the room too long for them to teleport through. When it comes to characters that suck at skills I usually give them a way of helping out a bit. Such as the big barbarian disabling traps with his huge axe instead of skills. Basicly give the trap a AC of sorts and if he hits it they get a sucsess. If he misses they get a failure or perhaps he gets damaged. I think that's quite a good idea.