In Karrnath, it's five Karrn women for every 1 Karrn man. In Breland, it's more or less 2.5 women for every man. For Thrane, it's 3 women for every man, and for Aundair, it's still roughly 1.5 women for every man. The smaller nations, including the large Eldeen Reaches, have a ratio of roughly 1.2 women for every man. The only exceptions are Valenar, the Demon Wastes, and Droaam. Among the Valenar Elves, it's roughly 2 women for every man; in Droaam and the Demon Wastes, no one has dared to do a census.
Homosexuality will really be discouraged in my campaign, especially among Cyrans. Now for Darguun, it's roughy 6 men for every woman down there. Which means -- PCs can marry more than one woman. But if you are a hobgoblin -- Welcome to China in 2013. Hobgoblins have a patriarchal society, and they have a surplus of men.
Cultures with a surplus of men tend to be aggressive and expansionist. Cultures with a dearth of men tend to be -- peaceful. The homosexuality thread, especially among Cyre, got me thinking. If Cyre was actually a decadent society through most of the Last War, despite it's wonders and treasures (jewels can be fake), Cyre would have an extremely active LGBT community -- especially in politics and social change. The Cyrans active LGBT community would be more upfront and in your face about their homosexuality than the typical Kalashtar (okay, everybody would, the Kalashtar mostly keep their sexuality to themselves -- they are LG on the whole). Cyran homosexuals would always get their way. They would have Gay Marriage -- blessed not only by the Mockery (for the Mockery is the Mockery), but by the Church of the Silver Flame and the Sovereign Host. They would sue and persecute heterosexuals. They'd do anything to make themselves a protected class. And their boldness would empower other groups. They'd get paedophilia and pedastery legalized, not only that, but groups wanting sexual experiences with animals would be common and become acceptable.
The Cyrans would neglect the poor and live for their own excesses. They'd kick the poor out of the churches for their coarseness of apparel. Different Warforged would be produced, and treated as chattel or sex slaves, even they knew the Warforged have souls -- because they see the Warforged as some kind of Transhuman. The House Vidalis enclaves in Metrol and Eston would start experiments on crossing men and animals for future soldiers, making of all things -- furries at best -- monsters at worst -- and crossing other species with other species. These aren't the experiments of Morgaine the Fleshcrafter, this is a whole enclave practicing magical genetic engineering. Some of the Sovereign Host worship would be driven underground in favor of a Babylonian-type religion. Money would be worshipped, money beloved, by the people. At the last years for Cyre, the Cyran coin would suffer run away inflation.
If I were thee God, I'd approach the problem in the exact same way God approached Sodom and Gommorah. I'd send prophets first to warn the Cyrans through the Last War to repent of their excesses, if not, Judgement comes to Cyre. At the end, those who listened would leave the country for safety. If they don't listen, I'd let Eberron herself warn the people. If they don't listen to her, I'd blow up Cyre using Supreme Fiat. For Cyre to have such a disaster, there can only be one thing about Cyre's people in that they've become a festering spiritual cancer.
In short, Cyre's actual society would be so decadent, corrupt, and evil that the typical Karrn Commander would feel more and more justified throwing zombies and skeletons at Cyre's Warforged legions. He would be convinced that using the dead as a military resource is a lesser evil to what Cyre was doing at the time. And although people wept when Cyre exploded, those among the know wept tears more bitter than can ever be known.
For the Cyrans, it's a post Apocalyptic situation. The Aundarians and Darguuni will probably still have a lot of homosexuality. But for Cyrans in my campaign, not a chance. The entire nation has been humbled, and now their women outnumber the men by a wide, wide margin. Homosexuals among Cyrans? Still, yes. Would it be acceptable? No.
In my Campaign, Homosexuality might be accepted and even encouraged among most of the Five Nations, and encouraged in Darguun. But for the Cyran refugees, they've learned their lesson. To preserve their culture, Cyrans usually marry only among Cyrans. Polygamy has been instituted, and now they are working hard to maintain their culture and not integrate with others. However, some want a new frontier, a new homeland besides New Cyre. And many want to head into Xen'drik in order to start a new life and to preserve their Cyran heritage.
But then again to each his own, and I see great story potential here.
I would not take the decadence as far as you, but that is just personal taste nothing else.
But I would deffinetly think along the lines of France pre revolution, mixed with a bit of rome around year 0.
Giving Cyre an upper class who thinks that the poor are poor because they deserve to be so, and the rich were granted that right by the gods and can do no wrong.
Perhaps even make a schism in the remaining population where Cyran upper class is blamed for the mourning by the poor.
Also in my mind (I don't remember if its stated somewhere or not), House Vadalis is quite carefull with their reputation.
They go to greath lenghts to not be seen as a evil scheeming big corporation. But rather go for the image of those nice guys with all the cool pets.
Not that they haven't gotten wierd experiments going, I just don't think they are quite that open about it.
And my last point. You seem to contradict yourself a little bit on the whole LGBT is ok and not ok. In the beginning you state that there is no nation, exept for Cyre that was, that openly accepts this practice.
Homosexuality will really be discouraged in my campaign, especially among Cyrans.
Then at the end you start talking about it being accepted
In my Campaign, Homosexuality might be accepted and even encouraged among most of the Five Nations,
So I wondered wich is it?
Perhaps its more of a I encourage my PC's who wish to play an LGBT character to do so, but society in general frowns upon it.
Or perhaps it is frowned upon in general but the communities are starting to claim their rights as equals and demand non discrimination.
Interesting read, one part of me wonders a bit what's up with you and sex in Eberron.But then again to each his own, and I see great story potential here.
Yup.
By the way : there is an adventure in the sealed part of the Dungeon Magazine which came out at the same time as the Book of Vile Darkness. Forgot the number, but its portrayal of Scuttlecove and its special brothel may inspire a few more things for your (Elton) vision of Cyre.
Also in my mind (I don't remember if its stated somewhere or not), House Vadalis is quite carefull with their reputation.
They go to greath lenghts to not be seen as a evil scheeming big corporation. But rather go for the image of those nice guys with all the cool pets.
Not that they haven't gotten wierd experiments going, I just don't think they are quite that open about it.
I’ve always been interested in House Vadalis. I believe they are honest about their ideals – they are a family, not a corporation – and alienate the other Houses with this attitude. But that does not preclude their being involved in dark dealings. They may believe it’s right to crossbreed humans with beasts. In my Eberron, Vadalis has one branch which is lycanthropic (but that’s mostly been wiped out in the Purge), and one which has dealings with the fey of the Eldeen Reaches (one of my favourite characters is a half-nymph heir of Vadalis, worshipping the Flame but in trouble with the Puritans for her origins); in both cases, this would play into their being far removed from the urban, commercial world in which all the other houses navigate.
That said, my Vadalis are also people who have an immense potential they simply chose not to use yet – the Korth Accords forbid Houses from having armies (except Deneith), but a Vadalis enclave could have several packs of Winter Wolves running around that make a Bladeguard Company look like a school trip, and their ability to communicate with (and awaken) animals gives them a huge force of spies and assassins.
I figured that the Last War would take a strong toll on all populations except for Southern Breland and Zilargo. But since the Mourning, Cyre's population was hit the hardest. I figured that more women and children got out of Cyre before the mourning than the men. Now there are seven Cyran women for one Cyran man.
Why would you think that? Children seem to me unlikely to have escaped the Mourning. Most Cyran survivors are, so far as I remember, soldiers who happened to be on campaign beyond the borders of their homelands, and while some people escaped the cataclysm itself, children would appear to be too slow to escape without help – and once panic sets in, very few people still stick to ‘women and children first’ ideals.
As for the armies which were outside of Cyre, it depends on their composition. In our own world, women would have been left at home in the period Eberron emulates. In the Renaissance period through the wars of the 18th century and WW1, utter destruction of the homeland would have left more men alive than women, as the only women beyond the borders would have been a few nurses and camp followers. But Eberron is far more egalitarian, gender-wise, than our world has been.
In Droaam and the Demon Wastes, no one has dared to do a census.
Now I’ve got a weird campaign idea about Sivis wanting to conduct a census in Droaam... If I had to guess, I’d say that it depends on the area; although by canon, there are male Medusae, I favour the idea of incredibly rare Maedar, with the rest being female, making the male:female ratio in the Stonelands favour the women; but that’s me.
The homosexuality thread, especially among Cyre, got me thinking. If Cyre was actually a decadent society through most of the Last War, despite it's wonders and treasures (jewels can be fake), Cyre would have an extremely active LGBT community -- especially in politics and social change.
Well, Cyre has been described as avant-garde, willing to experiment, try out new ideas, and so forth. Decadence – that’s probably propaganda.
However, I don’t see why homosexuality should be considered novel in Eberron. Looking to our own world, many ancient cultures accepted it – the Greeks, to a very large extent (it was a normal part of education for many: especially in Sparta, which could be extended to Karrnath; Platonic love as we use the term know is almost the opposite of what Plato meant; Zeus had affairs not only with girls, but also boys – Ganymede being the most famous). A note on Platonic love, I’d actually see this as fitting the Kalashtar quite well: considering each line is bound to a gender, getting to understand their Quori spirit better through such contact would fit Plato’s idea pretty closely. The Romans were more wary, but not because it was considered unnatural or against the will of the gods, simply because no Roman would want to be a passive partner. Abrahamic religions condemn homosexuality, of course, but there seems to be no indications in the sources of what stance the deities have towards homosexuality.
Since there is nothing in canon, you'd have to establish first what history has to say about this. I'd recommend, however, discussing this with your group first. It is a topic on which there is a lot of heated discussion going on in the real world, so it is important that your group is on the same page, lest your session (or this thread) degrades into a fight.
The Cyrans would neglect the poor and live for their own excesses. They'd kick the poor out of the churches for their coarseness of apparel.
Here I agree. While much of what has been said about Cyran decadence is propaganda, we know they treated the Khunans of Valenar with contempt, and as an underclass.
Actually, one of my ideas for a villain in Eberron would be a Cyran baron who survived the Mourning, and now officially helps his countrymen by providing them with new lives – but actually selling them on as slaves to Aurum contacts. It is, unfortunately, a common trait of real-world sexual exploitation to promise people a better life and then trap them, and Cyrans, especially those with no relations left, are ideal victims.
The House Vidalis enclaves in Metrol and Eston would start experiments on crossing men and animals for future soldiers, making of all things -- furries at best -- monsters at worst -- and crossing other species with other species.
I can see that too, although more with magical beasts than with animals (they have more to offer). And not necessarily as soldiers, but also simply to “improve” people.
Also in my mind (I don't remember if its stated somewhere or not), House Vadalis is quite carefull with their reputation.
They go to greath lenghts to not be seen as a evil scheeming big corporation. But rather go for the image of those nice guys with all the cool pets.
Not that they haven't gotten wierd experiments going, I just don't think they are quite that open about it.
I’ve always been interested in House Vadalis. I believe they are honest about their ideals – they are a family, not a corporation – and alienate the other Houses with this attitude. But that does not preclude their being involved in dark dealings. They may believe it’s right to crossbreed humans with beasts. In my Eberron, Vadalis has one branch which is lycanthropic (but that’s mostly been wiped out in the Purge), and one which has dealings with the fey of the Eldeen Reaches; in both cases, this would play into their being far removed from the urban, commercial world in which all the other houses navigate.
That said, my Vadalis are also people who have an immense potential they simply chose not to use yet – the Korth Accords forbid Houses from having armies (except Deneith), but a Vadalis enclave could have several packs of Winter Wolves running around that make a Bladeguard Company look like a school trip, and their ability to communicate with (and awaken) animals gives them a huge force of spies and assassins.
Some of the Sovereign Host worship would be driven underground in favor of a Babylonian-type religion. Money would be worshipped, money beloved, by the people. At the last years for Cyre, the Cyran coin would suffer run away inflation.
Would that be incompatible with the worship of the Sovereign Host? It seems just an extreme way of worshipping Kol Korran, perhaps in conjunction with an aspect of Kol Turrant (the Keeper).
If I were thee God, I'd approach the problem in the exact same way God approached Sodom and Gommorah.
The Mourning has been interpreted in this way: but which god would do that? There will be several to punish the Cyrans, but to leave the scar behind?
In short, Cyre's actual society would be so decadent, corrupt, and evil that the typical Karrn Commander would feel more and more justified throwing zombies and skeletons at Cyre's Warforged legions. He would be convinced that using the dead as a military resource is a lesser evil to what Cyre was doing at the time.
While I disagree that Cyre indeed was so decadent and corrupt, I perfectly agree that Karrn propaganda tried to convince its soldiers of exactly this, and that they may often have succeeded.
To preserve their culture, Cyrans usually marry only among Cyrans. Polygamy has been instituted, and now they are working hard to maintain their culture and not integrate with others.
That I can see too. Since virtually everyone is an enemy to Cyre, starting relations with a non-Cyran seems a difficult thing for a Cyran to do, and even more difficult for him/her to convince other Cyrans. It’d make for a Romeo-and-Juliet story, and Cyran avengers could easily target people who marry ‘traitors’ as traitors themselves.
(content removed)
So, back to Eberron.
My imaginings of the World isn't perfect, I can guarantee that. I can only imagine snapshots, and little snippets of events. But in thinking for the reason why Cyre was destroyed in the Last War and thinking how societies are destroyed in our world, one thing is clear. Societies in our world before they are destroyed go through a Cycle. First, they are established, then they grow, expand, and reach their height. Afterwords, they then fall in to a decline and then decadence and finally they either self destruct or they are destroyed from without. Yet, history is not without it's full destructive moments. The entire civilization of Mohenjo-Daro in our World was wiped out in the so called Early Bronze Age in what the evidence can only tell as "suddenly."
-- When the skeletons in the lost city were found, many were out in the street, holding each other.
-- When they were scanned with a geiger counter, they had more radiation in their bodies than they ought to have.
-- Mohenjo-Daro is a city that was rigorously planned. They had a modern sewer system, clean running water to every house, toilets, and other amenities we'd consider too modern for the Early Bronze Age.
I figured Cyre went through the same cycle, and when their monarch tried to assume the throne in Thronehold, her siblings sensed that she wasn't ready. She was probably truly incompetent and other factions were truly running Cyre using her as a figurehead. She may have been smart, she may have been intelligent, but she probably didn't have any talent for governing. So, her siblings stood up and contested her claim to the throne. The courts couldn't settle the matter, so it had to be decided in blood.
As for the God that destroyed Cyre -- there is only one god capable of creating both Good and Evil in the minds of the people. That has to be the Traveler.
EDIT: Removed political content - we stray away from those things due to the Code of Conduct, shown here - company.wizards.com/conduct