Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 julescarv Jul 25, 2008 22:00:19	Basically, it seems like all of the "cool" of goblins lies with the Heirs of Dhakaan. Players usually either play PC goblins who are assimilated into the lower classes of Galifarian culture, which is fairly easy since you don't have to play someone radically culturally different from the average human (just usually poorer, discriminated against, etc), or play Heirs of Dhakaan, who seem to be the successors of the awesome Dhakaani empire that ruled Khorvaire for millenia. Darguun goblins just seem to be "meh." They run a half-civilized banana republic (except without the bananas, and without the republic either since they have a monarchy) out in the boonies. They occassionally supply mercenaries to those who can pay for them. They try to keep the Heirs of Dhakaan in check. I don't have anything against the concept of Darguun. I'm not saying that Darguul goblins should be converted into ingenious inventors who live in shining, civilized metropolises and know the secrets of creation and have developed new magical devices that are miles ahead of finest artificers of Aundair or Zilargo. I'm fine with the idea of Darguun as a somewhat unruly backwater. All I'm saying is that I'm looking for a hook that makes me say "I want to play a Darguul goblin!" with no associations with the Heirs of Dhakaan or anything but Darguun.
#2 mystrich Jul 25, 2008 22:30:36	Well, nothing is stopping them. It's no different than any other race that isn't all that civilized, or even goblins from other settings. Might be mercenaries, might have a raiding party. They're more the monstrous goblins that become enemies than players, but still the rare PC will grab a goblin from there as a more savage character type.
#3 Arcane_Guyver Jul 26, 2008 6:53:17	Hmm...well, Darguun goblins are in a somewhat interesting position, though there isn't much detail for them. * Their culture is probably somewhere between Five Nations and Dhakaan. That's something to play around with. * I imagine Darguun is one of the best places in Khorvaire for Dark Six worshippers, priests, clerics & favored souls. * A Darguun goblin is a decent chance to play a native of a very young nation, so you could be exploring the other nations to see what works, what doesn't, and bring the knowledge back home.
#4 JohnLynch Jul 27, 2008 7:05:45	I see Darguun largely as a tabula rasa. Now technically it isn't, but that's how I think of it. All the other nations have a long and rich history and tradition. They've got: * Aundair, Breland, Karrnath and Thrane - they've got the history and traditions of their provinces and from before that their nationsl * Eldeen Reaches - has the history and tradition of the druids * Lhazaar Principalities, Zilargo and the Mror Holds - These all have their traditions from before Galifar. * Q'barra - This has the tradition of Galifar. * Talenta Plains - This has its traditions. * Valenar - Who knows what this place could be once it stops fighting. Although I doubt they ever will. * Droaam - This is a new land, but its largely uncivilised and considered monstrous. Its at a more primitive state then Darguun, although in a century or two it could be where Darguun is. But Darguun has no history or traditions and it is civilised. It could be anything you want it to become. A rich democracy, or a cesspool worse then Droaam or something between. It is a tabula rasa just waiting for you to say where its future goes. Its on the cusp of change, which means give it 20 years and it will be whatever you want (democracy, cesspool, whatever). But yeah, Darguun of 997 YK is boring, and if that's the time you're playing in there isn't anything you can do (IMO). So if you want it to be exciting, you should move your campaign to 1027 YK. Then Darguun can be whatever you want.
#5 osterweil_dup Jul 27, 2008 19:23:04	So if you want it to be exciting, you should move your campaign to 1027 YK. Then Darguun can be whatever you want. or time travel to -9000YK and help them stop the Daelkyr invasion
#6 JohnLynch Jul 27, 2008 22:42:16	or time travel to -9000YK and help them stop the Daelkyr invasion Wouldn't that be the Dhakaan again? :P
#7 Hellcow Jul 28, 2008 0:21:35	I imagine Darguun is one of the best places in Khorvaire for Dark Six worshippers, priests, clerics & favored souls. An excellent point. Setting the Dark Six aside, it's also the best source of playing a goblinoid cleric or paladin of ANY religion. Do you want to be a hobgoblin paladin who has against all odds heard the call of the Silver Flame? Such a character is far more likely among the Ghaal'dar than among the rigid structure of the Dhakaani. This plays to the general point that the Ghaal'dar and Marguul are a generally better source for any sort of goblinoid nonconformist. Say you want to be a goblin warlord. Such a character won't get far in a Dhakaani clan; hobgoblins are the military leaders. Among the Ghaal'dar, well, if you're good enough to enforce your will on others, you can do whatever you want. A Darguun goblin is a decent chance to play a native of a very young nation, so you could be exploring the other nations to see what works, what doesn't, and bring the knowledge back home. True again. Whether working as an agent of Lhesh Haruuc or as an independent agent who believes that he would be a worthy replacement for Haruuc, there's a lot of potential here. The Dhakaani know where they want the kingdom to go; they have a clear blueprint. If you want to play the goblin wizard who dreams of starting a goblinoid Arcanix in Rhukaan Draal, that's more of a Ghaal'dar dream than Dhakaani. In my opinion, the non-Dhakaani goblins don't have one particular trait that singles them out as being cool; what they have is the fact that their society isn't as rigid as that of the Dhakaani, that they are flexible and can follow many different paths. Furthermore, bear in mind that most of the goblinoid soldiers who fought in the Last War were Ghaal'dar, not Dhakaani. So that's another thing to play with. The Ghaal'dar have veterans of the Last War. The Dhakaani plan to rebuild an empire; but it's the Ghaal'dar who have actually created a nation, who have fought Cyrans and Brelish. Furthermore, while they are not as rigidly bound to its traditions, the Ghaal'dar are still proud of their heritage. The feat in Races of Eberron that improves your skills with the spiked chain is Darguun Mauler, not Dhakaani Mauler... and in City of Towers, the hobgoblin chainmaster Daine encounters isn't Dhakaani. The Ghaal'dar are proud of their ancestral heroes and plan to forge a new empire; they simply aren't as devoted to the traditions of the past (and admittedly, en masse, lack the martial skills that result from the strict devotion to those traditions). The Heirs of Dhakaan embody the martial spirit of the past. The city goblins have adopted many traits of the nations in which they live. The Darguuls represent the potential for a new, uniquely goblinoid culture - one inspired by the past, but not bound by it.
#8 Alas Jul 28, 2008 13:11:41	One of my favorite character ideas is the goblinoid "carpetbagger," a goblin, hobgoblin, or bugbear from one of the Five Nations who has pulled up stakes and rushed to Darguun for a chance to influence history. It's mentioned in the ECS that a lot of goblins came out of the woodwork during the Last War, many believing (correctly or not) that Darguun was their chance to claim their share of power and respect. But what happens when a fifth-generation goblin tinker from Wroat shows up Wyvernskull expecting to join the "pan-goblinoid movement" and instead runs smack into tribalism? What about a Thranish hobgoblin who thinks Darguun could use a theocracy? A Cyran bugbear who thinks the Mournland should be claimed by those who can clean it up? They don't just call themselves Darguuni-- they're trying to establish what the label "Darguuni" actually entails.
#9 goblin_pride Jul 28, 2008 18:05:14	I would think a goblinoid that pulled up stakes to "rejoin their goblinoid brothers" would more likely have dreams of seeing a new Dhakaan form in Darguun. Not to say they wouldn't be crushed to see what Darguun is really like, but wouldn't they have grand dreams about the greatness of the kingdom of the goblins in their motivation to suddenly pull up stakes and move?
#10 Alas Jul 29, 2008 7:30:44	I would think a goblinoid that pulled up stakes to "rejoin their goblinoid brothers" would more likely have dreams of seeing a new Dhakaan form in Darguun. Not to say they wouldn't be crushed to see what Darguun is really like, but wouldn't they have grand dreams about the greatness of the kingdom of the goblins in their motivation to suddenly pull up stakes and move? I'm certain that immigrant goblins have dreams of greatness-- I'm just suggesting that most of those dreams will be incompatible. How inclusive are the Dhakaan? I'm sure they'll accept all the obedient swords they can get, but once they reclaim their throne, how much are they going to share with some former thug from Sharn who's never heard the great dirges sung? Also, Dhakaan was just the latest and greatest empire-- what if some goblin wizard with a good History skill decides there's an older lineage that better deserves restoration? I'm just looking for conflicting aspirations-- that's where I get to make the PCs' lives interesting.
#11 goblin_pride Jul 29, 2008 15:21:29	I'm certain that immigrant goblins have dreams of greatness-- I'm just suggesting that most of those dreams will be incompatible. There's your character's conflict. Here he is, fresh from Sharn with dreams of helping to rebuild the great empire and the Dhakaani don't want help, Haruuc and his boys are just business as usual and now he's thousands of miles from home without the coin to pay for a return trip. Now he really is a carpetbagger, he packed up all he could carry and sold everything else to buy passage and then found out Darguun wasn't anything like what he expected. Could be a really good character if you play off the disillusioned dreamer angle.