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Defeating the Dreaming Dark

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Charles_Phipps
Jun 25, 2012 1:39:38 How would you go about doing it?

Just if they were the main antagonists of your campaign.

My PCs are working on figuring out a way to arm the Kalashtar with devices to capture the souls of Quori as they leave the body.

Like with Keeper Knives.

Once the Quori are gone, obviously their empire will fall.

(They're debating where to possibly send the Demons and I'm thinking the PCs will be befriended by a Dragon)

#2
Madfox11
Jun 25, 2012 4:54:43 In a recent campaign I had a paranoid professor of Morgraive University borrow a LOT of gold from Daask and Boronar(?) in Sharn which she used to craft a couple of items. One of the items was a rod that when activated warded an area against possession by spirits based on designs found in Xendrik. Of course, it does not just protect against the Quori, and the kaleshtar PC was not overly happy about the thing either, but it is definitely something one would want to have when facing the Dreaming Dark.

(This particular campaign started with the PCs working for the Boronar, send to a warehouse to check upon their bosses investment. The Daask had done so at the same time, and the professor had dissappeared. The intent was with the PCs starting at low levels with simply tracing down the professor and dealing with the Daask, while learning the professor might not be as mad as she appeared to be. It never got to the phase where the PCs and the quori directly clashed...)
#3
mutedfaithe
Jun 25, 2012 15:00:57 Find an ancient Eldritch Machine in Xendrik that the Giants designed that will force an immediate Turning of the Age. It's not complete, of course, but maybe Cannith can help the PC's out...
#4
dieffenbachj
Jun 25, 2012 22:27:23 I wrote up rules for time travel a while ago. As the key artifact for time travel campaigns, I wrote up an item, the Sovereign Horologe, which is very much so wrapped up in the Dreaming Dark's schemes. As a time travel device, it has great potential to eradicate or bring victory to the Dreaming Dark.

plotscaper.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/h...

If I wanted to run a campaign which ended the Dreaming Dark once and for all, it would start and end with that PDF.
#5
Aelth
Jun 30, 2012 9:27:28 Hmm-... I would think the best way to neutralise the threat of the Quori, isn't so much targeting the Dark itself, but rather their power-base, without Riedra and all their other puppets they wouldn't be much of a threat.
Of course, arming the Kalashtar with such weapons would be a step in the right direction, though there are too few Kalashtar to actually fight the Dreaming Dark itself-... And of course, if you arm the Kalashtar in Adar, it still mightn't be effective, as many prefer to oppose their darker brothers indirectly. That, and it might provoke a large-scale attack from Riedra.

If you actually wanted to -destroy- the current Quori, however, you would have to Turn the Age. A ritual or Eldritch Machine would be the easy way of going about it, or it could be, due to the psionic nature of Dal Quor, that you would have to make an impact on the collective minds of all dreaming creatures, alter the nature of dreams and in turn alter the nature of Dal Quor.
The players would have to find out what has to be done, then they could be straightforward about spreading a new way of Dreaming (The less adventurous option), or the players could actually go 'dream hopping' in order to spread it - Inception style. There are many other ideas, though you would get the gist of it

What I like about the Quori and the Dreaming Dark is that, in a very clear sense, they are dreams. Ideas as much as living creatures, they can't be beaten truly with swords or spells, ultimately they have to be fought on a metaphysical level, a battle in the minds of mortals that could end with the Player Characters becoming no better than the creatures they hope to fight.
Personally, I would only allow my players to defeat the Quori and Turn the Age if their characters had made a lot of preparations-... Otherwise, it would be something that could span more than one campaign.
Personally, I prefer the idea of sending Riedra into chaos by destroying the Hanbalan Network from Dal Quor than destroying the Quori themselves, they'd probably end up far to preoccupied to even spread their schemes anywhere else-... But would the Players or their Characters be willing to do such a devilish thing?
#6
Charles_Phipps
Jul 01, 2012 20:27:22 I'm inclined to do a Hope Spot though.

That the Age WILL turn but the Quori would become WORSE or that it won't happen for 1000 or so years.

In other words, a more mundane solution would be needed.

Mostly because I think Eberron tends to result in hard answers like that.
#7
mutedfaithe
Jul 02, 2012 15:24:38
I'm inclined to do a Hope Spot though.

That the Age WILL turn but the Quori would become WORSE or that it won't happen for 1000 or so years.

In other words, a more mundane solution would be needed.

Mostly because I think Eberron tends to result in hard answers like that.

Okay, so in arc 1 the heroes use their one use only eldritch machine which instantaneously causes the the age to turn. Only bad thing is now the Quori are worse, and instead of Sarlona being a 'utopia' where you sacrifice your freedom and free will, it becomes a place where you get skinned alive for the lulz.

Nice job breaking it, heroes.

So the heroes decide, screw Dal Quor and the Quori, who needs them. They decide they are going to magically nuke the plane and just not deal with them ever again. So they need a magic WMD. They need the Mourning. So arc 2 is them discovering the the cause of the Mourning and then weaponinzing it for massive destruction in Dal Quor.

Arc 3 is them destroying the plane of dreams. Fallout from that, though, is that no one dreams anymore and the remaining Kalashtar have all gone nucking futz. The heroes throw their hands up and say, "This is Eberron, this is as good as it gets."
#8
Ogiwan
Jul 03, 2012 10:03:58 Damn, man. You're a fan of the "crapsack world" trope, aren't you.
#9
mutedfaithe
Jul 03, 2012 13:40:33
Damn, man. You're a fan of the "crapsack world" trope, aren't you.

It seems to fit. Everytime anyone goes to war with one of the planes, everything goes to hell afterwards. Xen'drick was dragon nuked. Dhakaan went crazy and destroyed itself. I can't see round 2 with Dal Quor going any better.

And crapsack worlds are job security for PC's. Unless you like killing bunnies. Then you can head over to Ponyville.
#10
Madfox11
Jul 04, 2012 8:02:46 If you decribe Eberron, let alone D&D settings in general, as a crapsack world than I feel you are doing the trope a disservice. Compared to the World of Darkness, the Lovecraftian horrors of CoC or even the D&D setting Dark Sun a setting like Eberron is a shining beacon of hope and change for positive. It is a fact that in case of a game setting you want there to be many threats since otherwise you don't need adventurers, but D&D in general expect those PCs to make a difference and D&D expects the DM to reward Knights in Shining Armor. D&D is a game of action heroism, and it is IMO not very suited for the horror of true crapsack world. Many things can go wrong in Eberron, and each light has a potential for darkness, but the setting never outright says that everything has a dark side and there are ample examples of hope, of good defeating evil and knights in shining armor not only surviving but florishing. Vidalis could be working on organized genentic manupulations to create superhumans, but it could have been a small splinter group that the rest of Vidalis and the Twelf would be honestly horrified to learn about. The Silver Flame can be a corrupt faith of religious fanatics and an inability to moderate, but it can easily be a beacon of hope in a struggle against supernatural evil. And so on...

As for wars leading to hell, erm, nothing lasts for ever, and in case of Xen'drik is incorrect as well. The dragons nuked the region not because of the war with the quori, but because the giants decided to use the same weapons against the rebelious elves. We learn of the wars that lead to world shattering events. I am sure there are ample of wars in the history of the giants, dragons and goblins that did not lead to the anihilation of their empires ;)

Anyway, it is obviously your game, and your choice. It would not be my type of game though ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Charles_Phipps Jun 25, 2012 1:39:38	How would you go about doing it? Just if they were the main antagonists of your campaign. My PCs are working on figuring out a way to arm the Kalashtar with devices to capture the souls of Quori as they leave the body. Like with Keeper Knives. Once the Quori are gone, obviously their empire will fall. (They're debating where to possibly send the Demons and I'm thinking the PCs will be befriended by a Dragon)
#2 Madfox11 Jun 25, 2012 4:54:43	In a recent campaign I had a paranoid professor of Morgraive University borrow a LOT of gold from Daask and Boronar(?) in Sharn which she used to craft a couple of items. One of the items was a rod that when activated warded an area against possession by spirits based on designs found in Xendrik. Of course, it does not just protect against the Quori, and the kaleshtar PC was not overly happy about the thing either, but it is definitely something one would want to have when facing the Dreaming Dark. (This particular campaign started with the PCs working for the Boronar, send to a warehouse to check upon their bosses investment. The Daask had done so at the same time, and the professor had dissappeared. The intent was with the PCs starting at low levels with simply tracing down the professor and dealing with the Daask, while learning the professor might not be as mad as she appeared to be. It never got to the phase where the PCs and the quori directly clashed...)
#3 mutedfaithe Jun 25, 2012 15:00:57	Find an ancient Eldritch Machine in Xendrik that the Giants designed that will force an immediate Turning of the Age. It's not complete, of course, but maybe Cannith can help the PC's out...
#4 dieffenbachj Jun 25, 2012 22:27:23	I wrote up rules for time travel a while ago. As the key artifact for time travel campaigns, I wrote up an item, the Sovereign Horologe, which is very much so wrapped up in the Dreaming Dark's schemes. As a time travel device, it has great potential to eradicate or bring victory to the Dreaming Dark. plotscaper.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/h... If I wanted to run a campaign which ended the Dreaming Dark once and for all, it would start and end with that PDF.
#5 Aelth Jun 30, 2012 9:27:28	Hmm-... I would think the best way to neutralise the threat of the Quori, isn't so much targeting the Dark itself, but rather their power-base, without Riedra and all their other puppets they wouldn't be much of a threat. Of course, arming the Kalashtar with such weapons would be a step in the right direction, though there are too few Kalashtar to actually fight the Dreaming Dark itself-... And of course, if you arm the Kalashtar in Adar, it still mightn't be effective, as many prefer to oppose their darker brothers indirectly. That, and it might provoke a large-scale attack from Riedra. If you actually wanted to -destroy- the current Quori, however, you would have to Turn the Age. A ritual or Eldritch Machine would be the easy way of going about it, or it could be, due to the psionic nature of Dal Quor, that you would have to make an impact on the collective minds of all dreaming creatures, alter the nature of dreams and in turn alter the nature of Dal Quor. The players would have to find out what has to be done, then they could be straightforward about spreading a new way of Dreaming (The less adventurous option), or the players could actually go 'dream hopping' in order to spread it - Inception style. There are many other ideas, though you would get the gist of it What I like about the Quori and the Dreaming Dark is that, in a very clear sense, they are dreams. Ideas as much as living creatures, they can't be beaten truly with swords or spells, ultimately they have to be fought on a metaphysical level, a battle in the minds of mortals that could end with the Player Characters becoming no better than the creatures they hope to fight. Personally, I would only allow my players to defeat the Quori and Turn the Age if their characters had made a lot of preparations-... Otherwise, it would be something that could span more than one campaign. Personally, I prefer the idea of sending Riedra into chaos by destroying the Hanbalan Network from Dal Quor than destroying the Quori themselves, they'd probably end up far to preoccupied to even spread their schemes anywhere else-... But would the Players or their Characters be willing to do such a devilish thing?
#6 Charles_Phipps Jul 01, 2012 20:27:22	I'm inclined to do a Hope Spot though. That the Age WILL turn but the Quori would become WORSE or that it won't happen for 1000 or so years. In other words, a more mundane solution would be needed. Mostly because I think Eberron tends to result in hard answers like that.
#7 mutedfaithe Jul 02, 2012 15:24:38	I'm inclined to do a Hope Spot though. That the Age WILL turn but the Quori would become WORSE or that it won't happen for 1000 or so years. In other words, a more mundane solution would be needed. Mostly because I think Eberron tends to result in hard answers like that. Okay, so in arc 1 the heroes use their one use only eldritch machine which instantaneously causes the the age to turn. Only bad thing is now the Quori are worse, and instead of Sarlona being a 'utopia' where you sacrifice your freedom and free will, it becomes a place where you get skinned alive for the lulz. Nice job breaking it, heroes. So the heroes decide, screw Dal Quor and the Quori, who needs them. They decide they are going to magically nuke the plane and just not deal with them ever again. So they need a magic WMD. They need the Mourning. So arc 2 is them discovering the the cause of the Mourning and then weaponinzing it for massive destruction in Dal Quor. Arc 3 is them destroying the plane of dreams. Fallout from that, though, is that no one dreams anymore and the remaining Kalashtar have all gone nucking futz. The heroes throw their hands up and say, "This is Eberron, this is as good as it gets."
#8 Ogiwan Jul 03, 2012 10:03:58	Damn, man. You're a fan of the "crapsack world" trope, aren't you.
#9 mutedfaithe Jul 03, 2012 13:40:33	Damn, man. You're a fan of the "crapsack world" trope, aren't you. It seems to fit. Everytime anyone goes to war with one of the planes, everything goes to hell afterwards. Xen'drick was dragon nuked. Dhakaan went crazy and destroyed itself. I can't see round 2 with Dal Quor going any better. And crapsack worlds are job security for PC's. Unless you like killing bunnies. Then you can head over to Ponyville.
#10 Madfox11 Jul 04, 2012 8:02:46	If you decribe Eberron, let alone D&D settings in general, as a crapsack world than I feel you are doing the trope a disservice. Compared to the World of Darkness, the Lovecraftian horrors of CoC or even the D&D setting Dark Sun a setting like Eberron is a shining beacon of hope and change for positive. It is a fact that in case of a game setting you want there to be many threats since otherwise you don't need adventurers, but D&D in general expect those PCs to make a difference and D&D expects the DM to reward Knights in Shining Armor. D&D is a game of action heroism, and it is IMO not very suited for the horror of true crapsack world. Many things can go wrong in Eberron, and each light has a potential for darkness, but the setting never outright says that everything has a dark side and there are ample examples of hope, of good defeating evil and knights in shining armor not only surviving but florishing. Vidalis could be working on organized genentic manupulations to create superhumans, but it could have been a small splinter group that the rest of Vidalis and the Twelf would be honestly horrified to learn about. The Silver Flame can be a corrupt faith of religious fanatics and an inability to moderate, but it can easily be a beacon of hope in a struggle against supernatural evil. And so on... As for wars leading to hell, erm, nothing lasts for ever, and in case of Xen'drik is incorrect as well. The dragons nuked the region not because of the war with the quori, but because the giants decided to use the same weapons against the rebelious elves. We learn of the wars that lead to world shattering events. I am sure there are ample of wars in the history of the giants, dragons and goblins that did not lead to the anihilation of their empires ;) Anyway, it is obviously your game, and your choice. It would not be my type of game though ;)