Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 azuth1115 Apr 01, 2012 20:19:31	Because DW have to be any lawful, would these guys be against having to break in somewhere? Sentinel Marshals aren't 'authorized to break laws'. But could they in pursuit of their task? For example he's part of a group uncovering an assassination, and they have to break into a storage like facility. They also get into a scuffle with the Sharn Watch (no one dies). My point is there's a lot of deception, and stealth the group has to rely on (one is an inquisitive, another a high ranking member of the Serpentine Table), and I was wondering if he's going to be able to take part in this stuff. He's also somewhat 'retired', and assisting b/c he's friends/war buddies with the other characters, so he's not 'officially' assigned/hired to track down the killer(s) by Sharn or House Deneith.
#2 Hellcow Apr 02, 2012 15:20:39	Because DW have to be any lawful, would these guys be against having to break in somewhere? Sentinel Marshals aren't 'authorized to break laws'. But could they in pursuit of their task? For example he's part of a group uncovering an assassination, and they have to break into a storage like facility. They also get into a scuffle with the Sharn Watch (no one dies). My point is there's a lot of deception, and stealth the group has to rely on (one is an inquisitive, another a high ranking member of the Serpentine Table), and I was wondering if he's going to be able to take part in this stuff. He's also somewhat 'retired', and assisting b/c he's friends/war buddies with the other characters, so he's not 'officially' assigned/hired to track down the killer(s) by Sharn or House Deneith. It's all about how strictly you interpret alignment. I see it as a spectrum. One lawful person might be so strict as to refuse to break into a place even to stop an assassination. For another person, it may simply mean that he respects a chain of command and believes that the rule of law is in general a good thing. For the latter sort of person, I could easily see him being OK with breaking the law in such a way that no innocent is hurt in the pursuit of someone who is breaking the law in a far more severe way and who does intend to harm innocents. Essentially, is his "lawful" an OCD evaluation of every situation that has him quoting legal documents? Or is it a fundamental belief that there is value to law and order, and that those who break the law with the intent to harm the innocent should be stopped?
#3 azuth1115 Apr 02, 2012 16:21:13	Thanks Mr. Keith.  The alignment is more of the belief in law and order, and the good that comes from having those things.  Personally, he has no problem doing these things, but he's not an ends justifies the means type of person either.  I was more worried that as him being a Sentinel Marshal and Deneith Warden if there'd be more of a conflict.  Upholding laws of Galifar, the prestige and honor of the House, etc... I said he was unofficially (without being hired or assigned) to track down the murderers, but even if he was, would a nation (say Breland, since this takes place in Sharn right now), allow Sentinel Marshals some degree of discretion and/or leniency in pursuit of bringign someone to justice?  Granted, I imagine though that if Breland did want help from the Sentinel Marshals, then you'd expect the Sharn Watch to cooperate.  However in this particular case the group is conducting their own investigation.
#4 Hellcow Apr 02, 2012 16:31:29	Sentinel Marshals are held to a high standard, so it is an issue. The question is whether the character's actions will threaten the reputation and honor of the house. Essentially, the Marshals have the authority they have because the nations trust them. If the character performs an illegal action that has such severe repurcussions that Breland rescinds the authority of the Marshals, you can be sure that character is going to have a very unpleasant time ahead. So: how is a Brelish magistrate going to look at the situation? Is this a relatively harmless action that ultimately has a positive outcome - breaking into a criminal's house to stop an assassination - or is does it harm innocents for entirely personal gain?
#5 azuth1115 Apr 02, 2012 19:25:11	Well the assassination already happened. They need to break into the victim's home to retrieve his notes and other clues to which Breland is keeping his home/workshop guarded and secure as they collect his research first (as a kind of 'national security' since he is/was one of the leading researchers into uncovering the Day of Mourning )
#6 azuth1115 Apr 02, 2012 19:26:43	They'll also need to sneak into a storage yard at some point in an attempt to secure a piece of an eldritch machine.
#7 azuth1115 Apr 02, 2012 19:38:59	Also I should clarify that they're not breaking in to steal the same research Breland is 'seizing'. The researcher was hired by one of the members of the group to look into something that happened to them during the War. So they're trying to find out what the researcher found out and was going to tell them but was killed just prior.
#8 Madfox11 Apr 03, 2012 6:19:06	Sounds like a political risky situation. I doubt the marshals would look kindly upon the PC if he is caught, let alone if he hurts Breland officials in the process. Of course, that assumes he is recognized and Breland does not keep it under wraps as something to hold over the adventurers. It is always a good thing to keep powerful adventurers as allies/pawns, especially if the crime is minor and the repurcursions small. So in this case, if nobody got permanently killed, and the PCs honestly did not steal/influence anything the Breland authorities were interested in, they probably would keep it at a fine/warning and leave it at that. Mind you, why did the PC not go through official channels? For me, a lawful person can certainly break laws of the country in the persuits of higher laws if doing so is necessary. The person though would first look for other ways to achieve their goals that do fall within the law. For example, he could have used his influence with the sentinal marshals to get access to the office assuming that the authorities knowing of the interest does not do more harm than good. After all, I am sure that most simple authorities would not deny a sentinal marshal the right to search through a murder site if perhaps under watchful observance by a trusted government official (even more so when it involves the Mourning which could technically fall under the war criminal accord). Instead of using his position with the Sentinal Marshal against him, you could turn it into a benefit.
#9 azuth1115 Apr 03, 2012 13:53:19	Well, it's not a game, its a story lol, kind of just some personal writing.  So obviously I have leniency to do whatever I want lol but I try to stick to realistic situations as much as I can. So my initial post was just trying to get more of a feel for how Sentinel Marshals operate.  The guards didn't even know that the 'party' snuck into the researcher's home until they were alerted by the Tarkanan assassins who are after the party (and responsible for the murder, but the party doesn't know that yet).  In fact there were only 2 of the party member in the house, the Deneith wasn't one of them, he and the others were keeping watch from various locations outside.  And the 2 inside disabled the guards who entered and ran away essentially.  As for why the Deneith (or the Medani inquisitive for that matter who's in the party),can't contact and ask for permission to enter, that's part of the main plot which ties to some events that happened to them during the War and what the researcher was looking into for them.  They have good reason so far to believe Breland, or someone within the Sharn Watch, is responsible for the murder.  So I'd have to get into the story more to explain it but I'm sure that'd be boring lol.  To get more of a feel for how Breland is reacting to the death and the guy's research, it's kind of a bit like when Einstein died and the gov't took some of his work, except the guy was murdered so that adds to their security actions.
#10 Hellcow Apr 03, 2012 19:23:25	I agree that it's a very risky situation for the Marshal and that the proper course of events would be for him to present his credentials and ask to investigate. Otherwise, the fact that he's directly interfering with a national investigation certainly presents a significant political issue for the house if he's caught; at the least they'd strip him of his position and likely excoriate him for abusing the trust the nations grant the marshals, and that's not counting whatever punishments the Brelish would add. So he could play it safe and either sit it out or investigate publically - or just assume that it's important enough to take the risk and that he won't be caught. I do think a key issue here on the law-enforcer-breaking-the-law issue is just how severe the infraction is and whether it is in clear pursuit of preventing a greater threat (like, say, the Mourning). Breaking and entering without even intent to harm or steal isn't that significant. But if we were talking about murdering civilians or the like, things would be very different. And for that matter, if the place is highly secured, it's entirely possible some of the security forces are Deneith blademarks...
#11 azuth1115 Apr 03, 2012 19:54:56	Right. It is a minor infraction that citizens aren't in any danger. The importance of the party's investigation is key bc well it leads to an eldritch machine that threatens all the Houses. Lol not to play the 24 card, but there is a general twist and turn theme in here you'd expect from 24. The Deneith I guess would be like a Jack Bauer but... No where near as extreme, reckless, disobedient or as bad ass he's also just a supporting character. But I did plan on having some of them (well, some of their aliases like the Phiarlan's) be framed for the murder (later on though). But the Deneith soldiers protecting the House too.... Now that's a fantastic point, thank you