| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1illathidJul 21, 2009 17:51:18 | I just got my copy of Divine Power today, and I thought all different divine domains presented there were pretty cool. However, as I was trying to assign domains to the different Eberron deities, I was having some trouble so I thought get the Forum's opinion on the matter. Which domains do you think would go well with the different Eberron faiths and why? Here's what I got so far: The Sovereign Host - Hope, Civilization, & Protection The Dark Six - Storm, Destruction, & Wilderness The Silver Flame - ??? The Blood of Vol - Skill, Undeath The Path of Light - ??? The Undying Court - ??? The Spirits of the Past - War, Skill, & Knowledge Khyber Cults - Darkness, Torment, & Madness |
| #2AvonRekaesJul 21, 2009 21:17:24 | Well, I don't have the book yet, but I'd like to contribute and say that the Blood of Vol should not have Undeath. Being undead is a sacrifice to Seekers, since it means you cannot actually fufil the religions true purpose: unlocking the divinity in your blood and living forever without death. |
| #3illathidJul 21, 2009 21:54:30 | Well, I don't have the book yet, but I'd like to contribute and say that the Blood of Vol should not have Undeath. Being undead is a sacrifice to Seekers, since it means you cannot actually fufil the religions true purpose: unlocking the divinity in your blood and living forever without death. This is true, but Undeath still plays a significant role in the faith. While Seekers see undeath as a sacrifice, it is a noble one as the undead act as champions of the faith. In fact in Faiths of Eberron the Blood of Vol's portfolio includes Undeath (along with immortality, blood, destiny, & obedience). Plus, the domain itself only give divine classes an ability to deal necrotic damage with an at will power, which is hardly the same as making oneself undead and giving up on the divinity within. I stand beside my choice of undeath for the Blood of Vol. |
| #4josephkellJul 22, 2009 1:48:40 | shouldn't the various deities of the host and dark six each have their own domains? |
| #5JohnLynchJul 22, 2009 1:50:39 | shouldn't the various deities of the host and dark six each have their own domains? Yes. From my understanding you can worship them as a collective (and get access to certain domains and a unique channel divinity) or individually (getting access to different domains and getting a channel divinity depending on which god you're worshiping). |
| #6pweentJul 22, 2009 2:14:51 | I've been working on such a list for a couple of days. Of course, I've only had the list of domain names to go on, so this is up for revision as I get a better grasp of each domain's precise meaning. Here's my first (incomplete) draft. Arawai Life, ??, ?? Aureon Arcana, Justice, Knowledge Balinor Earth, Life, Wilderness Boldrei Civilization, Love, Protection Dol Arrah Hope, Sun, War Dol Dorn Strength, War, ?? Kol Korran I got nothin'. Civilization maybe, as the basis of trade? Justice, in the sense of law? Olladra Freedom, Luck, ?? Onatar Creation, Skill, ?? Even though Divine Power is going with two domains per evil god, I'm aiming to give the Dark Six them the full three domains that everyone else gets. The Devourer Destruction, Sea, Storm The Fury Madness, Torment, Vengeance The Keeper Death, ??, ?? The Mockery Destruction, Strife, Trickery The Traveler Change, Freedom, Trickery The Shadow Arcana, Darkness, Knowledge I've deliberately left War out of the Mockery's domain set, replacing it with Strife, but I'm not fully convinced. There are a lot of domains that are applicable to the Mockery - Torment would also not be misplaced. The Blood of Vol Undeath Cults of the Dragon Below Darkness, Earth, Madness The Silver Flame Hope, Justice, Protection I have no good ideas for the other religions yet. And while I get where Avon is coming from, I have to disagree - Blood of Vol is the religion of undeath in the Eberron setting, in contrast to The Keeper. There are indeed good justifications for omitting it within the mindset of the church, but really, it's what the church is noted for. A fun way of approaching this exercise is to list the various domains and to pick only one god or religion to associate with each one. Which god is the iconic god of each domain? Going domain by domain, here's what I've still got unassigned: Fate I'm tempted to give this to Kol Korran, but I'm not convinces it fits his established portfolio. Moon Poison Tyranny Winter What are the rest of you thinking? |
| #7JohnLynchJul 22, 2009 2:25:32 | I've been working on such a list for a couple of days. Of course, I've only had the list of domain names to go on What are the rest of you thinking? I'm thinking I'll wait until I've got more than names to base my decisions on ;) (I tried doing the same thing and gave up after 5 minutes). |
| #8AvonRekaesJul 22, 2009 9:52:39 | I think I might switch out The Mockery's Destruction for War, also keeping Strife. The Mockery is one of the War Trio in the combined pantheon, and I think keeping Destruction as The Devourer's shtick would be better. As for Undeath, I can see your point. Plus if you could acurately rename it "Necromancy" and not have to change anything, it does fit 100%. |
| #9josephkellJul 22, 2009 15:45:49 | Here is what I came up with: Silver Flame: The Host -Arawai (Agriculture): -Aureon (Law and Knowledge): Knowledge, -Balinor (Beasts and Hunts): -Boldrei (Community and Hearth): -Dol Arrah (Honor and Sacrifice): -Dol Dorn (Strength at Arms): -Kol Korran (Trade and Wealth): -Olladra (Feast and Good Fortune): -Onatar (Artifice): The Dark Six: -The Devourer: Destruction, -The Fury: -The Keeper: Death, -The Mockery: Destruction, -The Shadow: -The Traveler: The Blood of Vol: Cults of the Dragon Below: Path of Light: Mind Domain: Basically take the Arcana domain and replace all instances of "arcane" with "psionic." For Example: Virtuous Strike would be a psionic power for a Kalashtar Paladin as well as a divine power. Undying Court: A few notes on Domain Choices. Death: Death as a domain in 4e is about the natural transition from living to going to the Shadowfell to move on (and possibly be recycled or whatever). Undeath: Undeath is all about "cheating" death. Even the "Deathless" are cheating death. Darkness and Hope Domains: I don't like how these occur so often. |
| #10illathidJul 22, 2009 17:46:33 | I don't know if it would be a good idea to just take the old domains and translate each of them into a 4e equivalent. I think looking at each individual faith and giving it appropriate domains give it's precepts would work better and wouldn't get you the problem of having so many darkness and hope deities. |
| #11josephkellJul 23, 2009 0:33:38 | Darkness and Hope Domains: I don't like how these occur so often. I don't know if it would be a good idea to just take the old domains and translate each of them into a 4e equivalent. I think looking at each individual faith and giving it appropriate domains give it's precepts would work better and wouldn't get you the problem of having so many darkness and hope deities. It's like you read the last line of my post. You could just knock Hope and/or Darkness off of a lot of lists. That should leave 2 or 3 domains on most lists. |
| #12soyimJul 24, 2009 18:21:49 | I was going through this myself and trying to decide which Deities/Paths should get the following. One of the things about 3.5 was that a Deity always had the Domains of its alignment- even if the alignment was just a mild part of the deity itself (Really who cares if a Chaotic Good deity gave the Chaos domain?) Thankfully they reduced that in 4th edition, so now the truly "Lawful" deities have the "Justice" domain, while those deities that truley strive to do good in the world have the 'Hope' domain. Below are the assignments i would make as a GM, as well as the reasons for why. Silver Flame: Protection, Justice, Hope- The Silver Flame is ultimately about protecting people from Evil. While other aspects of the Religions might creep in (such as the Lycanthrope Purge or the focus on Purity) the Religions Core value is about the community- serving it (justice), protecting it (protection), and making certain that people believe that good will be victorious (hope). The Host: Civilization, Protection, Creation -Arawai (Agriculture): Life, Sun, Earth- Arawai is an Agriculture Goddess, she's the Life God (Life) and the God of the Harvest which is Life combined with the element of its core (Earth) and that which gives it form (Sun). -Aureon (Law and Knowledge): Fate, Knowledge, Arcana- Aureon is the God of Knowledge, law, and magic- so initially one might assume he gets the Justice Domain, this is not so. Aureon is not about enforcing the law, but about creating it and the result of it- which are the domains of Fate. -Balinor (Beasts and Hunts): Wilderness, Moon, Strength- Patron of the Wild Balinor takes on the best aspects of the hunt and the wild places. Strength which separates the predator from the prey with no maliciousness, Wilderness which is the basis for his portfolio, and the moon that is tied to the beasts and also symbolizes the balance between day and night and the continued cycle of life. -Boldrei (Community and Hearth): Civilization, Love, Protection- Boldrei, goddess of the home, is also our goddess of safety. She is a protective figure, a figure that can only exist within the community (civilization) because outside of it the hearth and home do not exist. Finally she is our Love god, because she represents the love of the household between spouses and children. -Dol Arrah (Honor and Sacrifice): Justice, War, Sun- Dol Arrah is the Sun. She is also the god of Honor, which is at its core a series of rules based around equality (Justice). She is also a War God. -Dol Dorn (Strength at Arms): War, Strength, Destruction- Dol Dorn is our Champion God, the power of arms (Strength) the power of battle (War) and the unavoidable aspects that go with this life (Destruction). -Kol Korran (Trade and Wealth): Change, Civilization, Skill- As god of Trade Kol Korran is bound the tenants of rules of exchange (Civilization). The point of trade is to get something new, something one does not already possess (Change), and to do that honestly and reliably is not a matter of luck but of honest work and craft (Skill). -Olladra (Feast and Good Fortune): Luck, Protection, Hope- Olladra is a goddess of Luck, and as such she is tied to those things that make Luck possible; the success that comes with it (Protection) and the continued presence of it (Hope). Feasts, the second piece of the portfolio, are a place of manners and neutrality (Protection again) that celebrate great moments (Luck and Hope). -Onatar (Artifice): Skill, Creation, Luck- Onatar as god of the Forge and Creation is not only concerned with quality (Skill) he is also concerned with quantity, the mass produced items. Out of the thousands of Swords that come forth from a Cannith Forge the prayer that one shall see you through its coming use and not fail you is a prayer to the smith, a prayer of Luck. The Dark Six: Vengeance, Destruction, Strife -The Devourer: Wilderness, Sea, Storm- Where Balinor is the god of the Wild that offers bounty, the Devourer is the God of the Wilderness that seeks our doom. He is the lord of the Sea, the bringer of Storms, and the master of the unknown wild places. -The Fury: Destruction, Madness, Strife- The Fury is the Goddess of unbound rage (Destruction). She is limitless in her anger and strikes out at any foe (Strife). Those who worship her are consumed by this hatred, drawn to battle and blood at their own expenses (Madness). -The Keeper: Death, Undeath, Tyranny- The Keeper is the Tyrant of the Dead. He is the ultimate Warden of souls- who bars their return or redemption (Death). He is served by the power of the half dead, the wight and the wraith, who drain the life from the living to feed their- and their masters- eternal hunger (Undeath). -The Mockery: Torment, Skill, Poison- Pain is the lifeblood of the Mockery (Torment). It is at his command that kills are made in the dark, assassins are dispatched, and suffering is dispatched throughout the world (Poison). But he is not a god of random violence- that artless form is the domain of the Mockery- but of calculated torture. Torture brought out of a victim over the course of days, months or years until they beg for the right to die (Skill). -The Shadow: Darkness, Arcana, Knowledge - The Shadow is the god of secrets (Knowledge). Master of things man was not meant to know (Arcana). Trades and deals made in the dark- the hushed whispers of plotters and conspirators (Darkness) that make one hunger for more power, more control. -The Traveler: Creation, Trickery, Change - The Traveler is Chaos (Change). His gifts (Creation) can not be trusted (Trickery). The Path of Light: Hope, Change, Skill: To Walk the Path of Light is to Hope to Change the world for the Better. It is a thankless journey that requires personal effort, personal responsibility, and personal suffering (Skill). The Undying Court: Undeath, Fate, Civilization: The Undying Court IS Aerenal (Civilization). It is the ultimate goal of the living, the hope of living generations, the ultimate ideal of heroes, artisans, and politicians (Fate). It represents the eternal service to ones people- undying (Undeath). The Cult of the Dragon Below: Madness, Darkness, Earth: In the Dark places under the Earth Madmen gather and worship the corpse of a world and the worms that crawl through its flesh. The Blood of Vol: Undeath, Protection, Life: Life is our gift from the world. The Gods would take that from us... but our Champions will not let them (Protection). Our Champions are undying, eternal, forever strong and forever hungry (Undeath)- our sacrifice now is their eternal devotion. The Spirits of the Past: Vengeance, Civilization, Skill: To be as our ancestors, to master their art, to master their Skill- that is the ultimate goal. The Valenar way (Civilization) is not the way of outsiders- the way of inferior creatures- the Valenar way is the way of perfection and honor: honor in the name of the fallen against our eternal foes (Vengeance). --- Surprisingly i have no deities for Winter- am i forgetting someone? |
| #13nthdegree256Jul 24, 2009 18:45:03 | That list looks rock-solid to me, and I'll be saving a copy for reference. :D Winter... I don't have the book on-hand at the moment, but I'd be most likely to give it to the Devourer, since it's something of a dangerous force of nature, to be guarded against rather than celebrated. |
| #14auspex7Jul 25, 2009 19:32:00 | I love it, Soyim. Great list. |
| #15superdeadsmurfJul 26, 2009 8:39:16 | Soyim that looks like the best List yet, but I'm not comfortable with a couple placements, I'm not convince Dol Dorn should have Destruction. I Don't like skill in the mockery's portfolio, and I think WAR is needed instead, since he is the brother of the War siblings Dol Dorn and Dol Arrah (a female god!) I think that the dark six need Wilderness to contrast with the Host's Civilization, and I don't think the keeper should have both death and undeath - undeath should be dropped in favour of torment maybe. I'd like to see destruction slotted in with the Devourerer, but the three it has already are quite fitting... One Suggestion i would make - don't try to fit all the domains with a god, if there are dangling ones (winter) leave them be. Don't feel constrained by 3 domains per god, some can only have 2, others can have 4 or more too. |
| #16illathidJul 26, 2009 12:39:01 | Good list, although I agree with all of superdeadsmurf's changes and I'd personally switch out protection for skill for the Blood of Vol. Faiths of Eberron goes on and on about the Divinity Within, and how it's all recognizing the power within ourselves. That seems very much like a skill thing to me. |
| #17angelus_obscuraJul 26, 2009 18:07:59 | I wouldn't give Arawai dominion over the sun with Dol Arrah, as she is the embodiment of life ON Eberron. Just like Demeter (RL myth) and Chauntea (FR) don't have portfolios over the sun. Arawai is basically the earth goddess, concerned only with what is on and within. The sun domain in D&D has oft been used as something good used to bring light to those in darkness, physically and metaphorically. I think Arawai feels the same towards life within Khyber as life above it. Just my two-pence. |
| #18HellcowJul 27, 2009 11:32:15 | Good list, although I agree with all of superdeadsmurf's changes and I'd personally switch out protection for skill for the Blood of Vol. Faiths of Eberron goes on and on about the Divinity Within, and how it's all recognizing the power within ourselves. That seems very much like a skill thing to me. It's a tough call. The goal of the Blood of Vol is to attain your full potential, which certainly could be seen as skill. But the BoV is also very community oriented - we need to stand together, because the universe is against us and death is oblivion. I think that at the end of the day, I'd actually split it into two sub-sects. The pure Seekers are egocentric individuals who are concerned first and foremost with their own path towards immortality, be that through channeling the Divinity Within or choosing undeath. This would be the prefered path of the corrupt priests of the faith and the higher-ups of the Emerald Claw, who are willing to use the faith of their followers as tools to manipulate them to achieve their own goals. This path doesn't really have any interest in other faiths and is really focused on personal ascension... Skill instead of Protection. The other path would be the struggle against death, as practiced by the Karrnathi community in Sharn. This is the branch of the faith that believes that the champions of the Blood can someday challenge the gods. They are far more community minded; it's less about your personal quest for ascension, and more about standing together against a hostile universe and finding a way to defeat an invincible foe. This focuses on Protection instead of Skill. The power of the champions is still a critical tool, but the core element of the faith is that this power will be used to protect all mortal things from the cruel whims of the powers above and below. (Mind you, you could easily have more than two variant sects... these just fit the two common forms of the faith we've described in the past.) I don't have time to consider every domain right now... but overall, nice list Soyim! |
| #19mister_freeJul 29, 2009 12:22:58 | Path of Light seems a tad off to me. Not that I disagree with the reasons or assumptions listed, but more becuase I disagree with some of the mechanics. For example: all of the associated powers for the path of light are all melee related, and there's nothing that fits 'illumination'. Personally I'd allow the 'Sun' domain as an alternative to one of those ... until we get an official listing. That way a ranged cleric option becomes available, and there's something that sort-of relates to the whole illumination aspect. /shrug |
| #20soyimJul 29, 2009 16:04:57 | Thanks for the kind words everybody. Superdeadsmurf: Thanks for catching my typo. I don't think you can have a War God in a community minded civilization without the Destruction domain- especially after the last war: I think the two are too equally equated at this point in the minds of most Khorvarins. As for Wilderness being the perview of the Dark Six, i respectfully disagree. There are dark and wild places in Eberron- but those are almost universally dedicated to the Devourer or The Dragon Below- the vast untamed wilds are usually under the care of the Druids (The Eldeen Reaches) or their people (The Valenar, the Drow). As for the other disagreements- *Shrug*. I kept with the Three Domains per deity and did my best to avoid duplicating Domains too much. Skill can fit into a lot of perviews, so can destruction, hope, and torment. I felt it was important to consider what the Deities would grant- as opposed to what one would expect to see from them. Arawai is a life god- and Undeath is anathema to life- she may not be a sun goddess speicifically but she would certainly have the tools necessary to combat the undead. Similarly the Keeper is a death god- he has the death domain, but he's also a god who creates undead and rules over his servants as a tyrant- the fact that he tortures them (torment) is secondary to the fact that he owns them (tyranny). One of the things specifically stated in Divine Power is that you can grab whatever domains you want as long as your GM agrees that your Deity could be associated with them. I would probably rule that any domain given to the Pantheon as a whole would also be applied to an individual god- but any player who made a strong case for a specific domain (Such as Skill in the Blood of Vol or War in the Spirits of the Past. |
| #21hollowerfollowerJul 29, 2009 16:35:07 | I don't claim to be an expert when it comes to the Eberron setting, since I've only really just started getting into it with the 4E Eberron books. However, I was wondering why there's no one suggesting Destruction as a domain of the Silver Flame? Protection, Hope, and such all certainly fit, but the Church of the Silver Flame has a pretty big focus on destroying evil. Like I said, I'm not really an expert, but it just seemed like the Destruction domain fit with such a zealous group. |
| #22HellcowJul 29, 2009 17:44:03 | However, I was wondering why there's no one suggesting Destruction as a domain of the Silver Flame? Protection, Hope, and such all certainly fit, but the Church of the Silver Flame has a pretty big focus on destroying evil. It's all about the interpretation of the word "destroy". When I read the description of Destruction on page 111 of Divine Power, it doesn't sound like it's talking about the attempt to destroy a certain thing; it's talking about broad scale, literal destruction. Cataclysms. Natural disasters. It notes that "An unaligned god of destruction could be an uncaring agent of doom or a herald of the world' s end, duty-bound to begin a cycle of cosmic rebirth by unleashing devastation upon the world. A good god of destruction might exist in a very dark world, where most of what exists is corrupt and must be wiped clean." Even the most zealous follower of the Flame doesn't believe that the world itself must be burnt down. They seek to fight evil, but they do so to protect the weak and innocent... and when dealing with humans, they seek to inspire them with compassion and by example - "lead a noble life, and encourage others to do the same." To me, Protection, Hope, and Justice are all good choices for this. They seek to protect the innocent from supernatural evil and combat human evil with guidance and inspiration; Protection is obvious, and Hope and Justice seem to fit that idea of battling evil through virtuous action... whereas Destruction as a domain really seems to be about massive, wholesale destruction. Even the lycanthropic purge began as an act of protection, and it was this desire to protect the people of the west that fueled the conflict... not a wanton desire to slaughter. Of course, I could easily see assigning different sets of domains to the different SECTS of the church. The Servants of the Pure Flame are the most overzealous and the most destructive in their actions. Perhaps you could give them Destruction in place of either Justice or Protection, in the basis that in their misguided quest for justice they are willing to burn the world. But the Puritans represent the absolute worst extremes of the church - not the core principles of the faith. |
| #23johnny-gaijinJul 30, 2009 0:28:51 | Vulkoor: Darkness Trickery and Skill i'm planning a drow avenger so this is what i worked up. maybe nature instead of skill? i feel that skill might be better because they're all about survival... that they live in the forest is a little bit coincidental... |
| #24hellgrammite00Jul 31, 2009 11:01:12 | -Great list Soyim, I would make a couple of changes though. -Dol Dorn: War, Strength, Skill: Dol Dorn is our Champion God, the power of arms (Strength) the power of battle (War) and power of physical prowess and competition (Skill). -The Path of Light: Hope, Change, Freedom: To Walk the Path of Light is to hope to free the world from an eternity of nightmare and evil. Though both could work, I feel for the Path of light, Freedom>Skill in this situation. Divine Power has the Freedom domain focused on respecting and fighting for the freedom of other life forms (bonds of slavery, ect.). The change they seek is freedom. |
| #25spirit_golemJul 31, 2009 16:11:52 | Hmm, it appears that Wizards realized our need for listings of domains for campaign specific Deities. In the new Editorial Calender there is a listing for a Dragon article that will appear on the 28th of August called "Domains of Eberron and the Forgotten Realm" so it seems that we will need to wait a month for official rules. The new Editorial Calender is located here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/calendar |