Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 PaladinNicolas Jun 12, 2013 4:27:33	Hello fellow Eberron fans. I was reading the latest playtest documents and the section on additional races made me think which of the gnome subraces described therein better fit Eberron gnomes, or if both of them can be considered as the typical Zilargo gnomes. The forest gnomes, for instance, have illusion powers that may be related to the deceit in Zilargo, and the fact that they are described as quite related to fey made me think at first glance that they are the typical Eberron gnomes, which are considered to come originally from Thelanis if I recall correctly. Rock gnomes, on the other hand, have abilities related to construction and clockwork mechanisms, which in my opinion may not be a distinctive of Eberron gnomes. Yet, they have alchemy talents, and Eberron gnomes are considered to have them. What are your thoughts on the matter?
#2 Syltorian Jun 12, 2013 10:32:22	Not having read the actual documents, I can only base my opinions on your descriptions. In this case, I'd agree with your case for Forest Gnomes. The illusion and deceit is more characteristic of Zilargo than clockwork and construction, which seems more a trait I'd expect in the Mror Dwarves, Cannith humans, and, given certain representations in novels, could be stretched to Dhakaani artificers. As you say, gnomes are connected to Thelanis (and to at least one of the Feyspires, IIRC), and their illusions were part of what helped them survive against the powerful Dhakaani Empire. From the way you describe them, the only thing that fits about the rock gnomes is that Zilargo happens to be mountainous.  Even alchemical talents are not something I'd consider to be a characteristic racial or cultural trait in Zilargo, just an interest amongst many; alchemy might as well be associated with lizardfolk (who like their poisons) or the Tundra duergar, who use explosives to sabotage Riedra.
#3 Magicstar1 Jun 12, 2013 15:22:35	Coming from a 4th edition viewpoint the Gnomes came from Thelanis (Fey wild) by means of the Fey Spires. The more fey gnomes could be those of pure breed or those who have only recently made the transfer. The Rock Gnomes could be those more adapted to life on Khorvaire and thus lost some of those trickery features. Another explanation could be that most gnomes are of the fey variety but some are born with a gift for elemental binding, ie the rock gnomes.
#4 PaladinNicolas Jun 13, 2013 3:34:41	Thanks to both of you for sharing your opinions. I have been thinking on the subject taking them into account and looking at Eberron sources, and to my mind both "subraces" may make sense in Eberron, although not called as subraces but rather understood as divisions of labor and innate abilities. Let me expand upon this. Firstly, the principle according to which if something exists in D&D then it exists in Eberron suggests that while in principle it is not mandatory to include both types of gnomes, they can have a place in it. This would make it necessary to strive to find a place for both types of gnomes. In my opinion, they may easily have it, in the following way: for the reasons both of you mentioned and what I indicated in my first post, gnomes come originally from Thelanis and have relied on illusions and deception. Thus, by default average gnomes would be what the playtest documents call forest gnomes, because they have innate fey abilities and for surviving against stronger races they have channeled their magical abilities to handle illusion magic. On the other hand, as Keith Baker indicated in his blog (bossythecow.com/hdwt/2012/05/bonus-drago...), "the Zil are Khorvaire’s foremost experts on alchemy. And strange as it sounds, elemental binding is a highly magical form of alchemy." Moreover, he said that "Though the gnomes committed few troops to the war effort, their alchemical and elemental weapons were devastatingly effective, and Zil spies were said to provide substantial intelligence to Breland.” Accordingly, due to their curious and inquisitive nature, and their mastery of alchemy, some gnomes may have specialized on those skills and crafts. This is why I suggest that gnome subraces are actually not such but reveal the Zil division of labor and the focus of different gnomes, with some focusing on crafts of alchemy that lead them to forego handling the illusions they have a talent to master. What do you think? About elves. I think that high elves would be handled as Eladrin in 4e Eberron, and wood elves as Eberron elves. A rule not related to races but magic that is interesting for Eberron is that of rituals, because Keith has said that they reflect the industrial aspect of Eberron magic, and it is supported alongside traditional dnd magic in the playtest. What are your thoughts?
#5 Twiggly_the_Gnome Jun 16, 2013 20:51:36	I'd probably just use the "forest gnome" for the gnomes of Eberron, and fold the alchemy related stuff into the Zil character background. There's no reason that a Brelish or Eldeen gnome would necessarily know those things. As for the "rock gnome", if I were to include them, I'd want to make them something distinct. First off, I wouldn't call them gnomes, they'd be tinkers, knockers or whatnot. They'd be the decendants of gnomes enslaved by the giants after the sacking of Shae Tirias Tolai, stripped of their magic, and forced to be craft laborers. The vast majority still living on Xen'drik