Does anyone else miss some of the other shifter types?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

sephiwind

Jun 23, 2009 11:36:00
I don't know about you guys but I personlay was disapointed to see that there were only 2 types of shifters and not additions for them in the EPG. Personally my favorite were the Ghost Eye Shifter(atleast I think that was their name, it's been about 2 years since I played 3.5) from races of eberron.

Anyone else here kind of disapointed with haveing shofters dumbed down to only 2 types?
#2

Talae

Jun 23, 2009 12:50:24
Many of the types can be found via feats. I don't really mind this approach, but would like to see more feats via a Dragon article or something. I was honestly expecting them in the EPG.
#3

salla

Jun 23, 2009 14:04:30
No. We don't need 8 subraces of shifter any more than we need 30 subraces of elves.
#4

tiwaztyrsfist

Jun 23, 2009 14:11:21
Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed with the way they did shifters for 4e.

Some of it I like, but the main thing I dislike is the changes to the fluff. They seperated the names from the powers, and they made the races into feats...

But, I'm pretty much over it. I may house rule some up before we start a 4e Eberron campaign.
#5

moonspeaker

Jun 23, 2009 14:12:01
I don't know about you guys but I personlay was disapointed to see that there were only 2 types of shifters and not additions for them in the EPG. Personally my favorite were the Ghost Eye Shifter(atleast I think that was their name, it's been about 2 years since I played 3.5) from races of eberron.

Anyone else here kind of disapointed with haveing shofters dumbed down to only 2 types?

I do. My 3.5 character is stuck in limbo since there is no real way to convert him to 4th with out major changes.

EPG is a great book but could have had more imo

#6

bobiago

Jun 23, 2009 14:18:43
Well, they went so far as to say you are either a doggy shifter or a kitty shifter. But what if you wanted to be a beary shifter from the start? Well, you take the kitty shifter option with the beary feat (the kittybear) or the doggy shifter with the beary feat (the doggybear). Neither of them really do it for me, but I agree that dog and cat are probably the most popular tropes for this kind of thing. I'm not weeping bitter tears, but the bear archetype was popular in my group (sample size 2 out of 15).
#7

sephiwind

Jun 23, 2009 14:20:26
Really they could have done shifter like the did the Genasi with being able to pick differant racial encounters. That way it would have appeased both sides, you could keep the flavor of the differant types of shifters with out needs differnat writeups.
#8

bobiago

Jun 23, 2009 14:21:27
No. We don't need 8 subraces of shifter any more than we need 30 subraces of elves.

We didn't need a subrace, but we needed a few more racial options to handle the most common were-tropes without you requiring you take another trope first. Bear, Rat, Boar, without first taking Wolf or Tiger.
#9

salla

Jun 23, 2009 14:31:41
Well, they went so far as to say you are either a doggy shifter or a kitty shifter. But what if you wanted to be a beary shifter from the start? Well, you take the kitty shifter option with the beary feat (the kittybear) or the doggy shifter with the beary feat (the doggybear). Neither of them really do it for me, but I agree that dog and cat are probably the most popular tropes for this kind of thing. I'm not weeping bitter tears, but the bear archetype was popular in my group (sample size 2 out of 15).

Or, just pick one of the two shifter types and say you're bearish. Or foxish. Or sharkish. Or platypushish.

Fluff is mutable.
#10

AvonRekaes

Jun 23, 2009 14:34:37
The only one I really miss is Dreamsight, but since both longtooth and razorclaws have +2 Wis, it's more that every shifter has the potential to become Dreamsight.

Still, I'd like a feat for it. Paragon, maybe. There's precedent for racial feats being much better than normal feats, so I'm willing to give shifters the ability to see invisible creatures within 2 squares of them for a paragon feat. (Or maybe within 5 or 10, but only while shifting)
#11

salla

Jun 23, 2009 14:35:11
We didn't need a subrace, but we needed a few more racial options to handle the most common were-tropes without you requiring you take another trope first. Bear, Rat, Boar, without first taking Wolf or Tiger.

No, you don't. Just say you're (whatever animal you want)ish. There's absolutely no reason you can't ascribe either variety of shifter to any animal you want. Your Bear-ish shifter can be Longtooth or Razorclaw, out of the gate. Same for rat, boar, anything else. The 'origin' of the Shifters has no rules bearing; it is merely fluff, and you can change fluff as you desire. You could, in fact, use the stats for a different race and still call yourself a shifter. Bears are tough as nails, sturdy sorts? Grab the Dwarf stats. Rats are sneaky, nimble, shifty and a little on the short side? Halfling.

All perfectly legal and sensible. Be thee not limited by fluff text, for it is mutable.
#12

ellorin

Jun 23, 2009 14:37:31
Besides, I don't see why Longtooth or razorclaw wouldn't apply to the kind of shifters you've mentioned. Dosen't a bear have powerful canines or sharp claws? doesn't a wererat have a claw or bite attack? You can change the longtooth to longtusk for the boar.It's not as if Longtooth has a big DOG FEAT label on it.
As for dreamsight...I've never been a fan of it.

P.S.:Totally ninja'd by Salla.
#13

xi_mao

Jun 23, 2009 16:01:56
I kind of miss Beasthide shifters, but that's only because I had a Barbarian Powerbuild that I never got to play that used that race.

I also miss Dreamsight because it was so different from the other shifters, and I love the picture from Races of Eberron with the dreamsight shifter cutting open the throat of the invisible dude, eyes aglow with primal power.

But Razorclaw and Longfang are fine. I'm mostly glad that we still have shifters.
#14

fabius_maximus

Jun 23, 2009 16:33:54
No, you don't. Just say you're (whatever animal you want)ish. There's absolutely no reason you can't ascribe either variety of shifter to any animal you want. Your Bear-ish shifter can be Longtooth or Razorclaw, out of the gate. Same for rat, boar, anything else. The 'origin' of the Shifters has no rules bearing; it is merely fluff, and you can change fluff as you desire. You could, in fact, use the stats for a different race and still call yourself a shifter. Bears are tough as nails, sturdy sorts? Grab the Dwarf stats. Rats are sneaky, nimble, shifty and a little on the short side? Halfling.

All perfectly legal and sensible. Be thee not limited by fluff text, for it is mutable.

Well, the other Shifter types offered mechanical difference, too. Sure you can change the fluff, but the mechanics do not differ from the kitty and doggy shifters.
#15

Arcane_Guyver

Jun 23, 2009 16:35:06
Wait, you mean we don't have shifters with a big rhino-horn on their head, or shifters that sprout wings for seconds at a time?

Good.
#16

salla

Jun 23, 2009 16:51:44
Well, the other Shifter types offered mechanical difference, too. Sure you can change the fluff, but the mechanics do not differ from the kitty and doggy shifters.

And your point is?
#17

celticmutt

Jun 23, 2009 17:04:53
No. We don't need 8 subraces of shifter any more than we need 30 subraces of elves.

There's always been more human subraces than elf subraces. Shifters being one of them. ;)
#18

ranadiel

Jun 23, 2009 17:28:46
There's always been more human subraces than elf subraces. Shifters being one of them. ;)

Shifters aren't really a human subrace. They are just evidence that humans will "dance" with anything and everything in existence.:P
#19

fabius_maximus

Jun 23, 2009 17:30:52
And your point is?

That people want their characters to differ mechanically from others. What's the point in saying that I play a Beasthide Shifter, but do not gain an AC bonus?

Also, wasn't that the exact point that defenders of the ToB and the 4e Fighters bring up whenever someone says that basic attacks can be reflavoured at will?
#20

celticmutt

Jun 23, 2009 17:49:40
Shifters aren't really a human subrace. They are just evidence that humans will "dance" with anything and everything in existence.:P

They have human blood, that makes them close enough to a subrace to me. :D
#21

salla

Jun 23, 2009 17:56:38
That people want their characters to differ mechanically from others. What's the point in saying that I play a Beasthide Shifter, but do not gain an AC bonus?

The Razorclaw shifter gets an AC bonus while shifting. Just cross out 'razorclaw' and write in 'beasthide'. Or grab the Goliath stats and your 'beasthide' is their damage reduction power.

Also, wasn't that the exact point that defenders of the ToB and the 4e Fighters bring up whenever someone says that basic attacks can be reflavoured at will?

Don't know, haven't been a part of that argument.
#22

awesome_dude

Jun 23, 2009 18:04:38

Would OP like to use these?


Gorebrute Shifting


Prerequisite: Shifter


Benefit: While shifting, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls when charging. This benefit increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.


 


Dreamsight Shifting


Prerequisite: Shifter, 11th level


Benefit: While shifting, you gain the ability to see invisible enemies out to a distance of 5 squares.


 


Swiftwing Shifting


Prerequisite: Shifter, 11th level


Benefit: While shifting, you gain clumsy flight with a speed of 5 squares. In addition, you are always treated as having fallen 10 squares less for purposes of calculating falling damage.


 


Truedive Shifting


Prerequisites: Shifter


Benefit: You can breathe air as easily as water and gain a swim speed equal to your land speed.

#23

Ogiwan

Jun 23, 2009 19:29:32
I was a fan of Longstride shifters and Beasthides. I was sad to not see them.
#24

Elton74

Jun 23, 2009 20:49:48
Hmm.

I'm disappointed. For about ten seconds. Now I don't care . . .
#25

fabius_maximus

Jun 24, 2009 8:11:34
The Razorclaw shifter gets an AC bonus while shifting. Just cross out 'razorclaw' and write in 'beasthide'. Or grab the Goliath stats and your 'beasthide' is their damage reduction power.

The Razorclaw still has his claws, which beasthides do not have. And the Goliath variant is a house rule and therefore a cop-out.

There simply is no reason to leave out the other Shifter types. They wouldn't have taken up much space in the book.
#26

xi_mao

Jun 24, 2009 16:18:07
The Razorclaw still has his claws, which beasthides do not have. And the Goliath variant is a house rule and therefore a cop-out.

There simply is no reason to leave out the other Shifter types. They wouldn't have taken up much space in the book.

Well, it depends...I mean, how much do we want to cater to furries? :P

Just Kidding. I really do wish more shifter types had been released, but Considering most races have a writeup that needs to basically fit into a single collumn...
#27

Omen_of_Peace

Jun 25, 2009 5:10:41
I do miss Dreamsight shifters, and the Moonspeaker PrC that went well with them. But I don't miss them too much.

Reflavoring can take care of replacing most of the others (or homebrewing, as the feats above show - I think I'd make them slightly less powerful though).
#28

romulus_lonewolf

Jun 25, 2009 6:51:00
I was disappointed about the reduced Shifter type selection myself, until I realized something...

...I can just take a Shifter, make it a Druid, and then justify it as the Shifter being a "Shifting Master" and give it the powers I want to represent the Shifter Traits I want.
#29

That_Blasted_Somoflange

Jun 25, 2009 8:42:11
If you search enough, you'll find that some person, I think he's a really handsome and cool guy, has tried to make Proper Eberronian shifters - or shifters that are more like the 3.x counterparts.
#30

w0nkothesane

Jun 25, 2009 16:45:31
That people want their characters to differ mechanically from others.

I really hate to be mean, but I read this as:

That people want to feel like their character is a special snowflake and nobody should ever tell them otherwise.

If you want mechanics to match every single sub-whatever of every race, class, profession, etc, you might want to consider this alternate ruleset:

Write a god damned book. Or start LARPing. Or write your own game that covers every variation of everything ever- it'll be an infinite number of pages but that's apparently what some people want.

We use the Dungeons and Dragons system to make the game more simple and standardized and focus on playing the game and having fun.
#31

romulus_lonewolf

Jun 25, 2009 19:23:20
If you want mechanics to match every single sub-whatever of every race, class, profession, etc, you might want to consider this alternate ruleset:

Write a god damned book. Or start LARPing. Or write your own game that covers every variation of everything ever- it'll be an infinite number of pages but that's apparently what some people want.

We use the Dungeons and Dragons system to make the game more simple and standardized and focus on playing the game and having fun.

Okay, that was seriously uncalled for. What me and other fans of the Shifters want is to have the same kind of cool variety with the 4e Shifters that we had with the 3.5e Shifters. And with the new "Racial Powers" approach, there's no reason why we can't. I don't think making a "Swiftwing" Shifter Trait available at first level would be such a game breaker, considering the Windsoul Genasi get a mechanically similar ability with the Windwalker racial power.

In fact, to stick with the Genasi exemple, that's a race that has the option of choosing one of FIVE racial powers, depending on the character's elemental manifestation. If the Genasi can get that kind of customisation, why can't the Shifters?
#32

awesome_dude

Jun 25, 2009 19:53:21
Romulus, you can also use the feats I made if you want. Would you like to?
#33

romulus_lonewolf

Jun 25, 2009 22:29:10
Romulus, you can also use the feats I made if you want. Would you like to?

Dude, those are just what I was looking for, thank you.
#34

That_Blasted_Somoflange

Jun 26, 2009 2:22:17
We use the Dungeons and Dragons system to make the game more simple and standardized and focus on playing the game and having fun.

No. I play Savage Worlds to make the game more simple, standardized and focus on the game and having fun. I play D&D because that is what half my group really wants to play. :P

Don't get me wrong, 4e is, in my opinion, the best version of D&D so far. It still has a long way to go, but so do many other games.

The problem with shifters as I see it, and have attempted to fix is that: One, we don't get the same amount of variety as previous. That's not the big issue for me honestly. If there were only two, I'd be fine. However, point TWO, is that the names evoke an image in my mind which is NOT represented by the mechanics. Razorclaw don't get razor sharp claws, longstride don't get a speed bonus. See, standardized is all fine and dandy but it doesn't work for a great many things. Look at communism, sure everyone's treated equal - except those in charge. :P

Now, as to writing a 'god damn book' well, isn't that what people are suggesting be done with the shifters? That they get re-written to be more in line with many people's views? Maybe it's just a short book only on shifters.

Sigh.. oh well. I'm done with the WotC forums for a week or so. Same arguments, just with different words. Complain, complain, complain.
#35

celticmutt

Jun 26, 2009 2:49:21
However, point TWO, is that the names evoke an image in my mind which is NOT represented by the mechanics. Razorclaw don't get razor sharp claws, longstride don't get a speed bonus.

Razorclaws get the blurring claws feat. ;)

And, uh ... there are no longstriders ... There are longtooths though. :P
#36

AvonRekaes

Jun 26, 2009 9:41:44
I really hate to be mean, but...

Well you should have just stopped there then, right?
#37

That_Blasted_Somoflange

Jun 26, 2009 10:46:52
Razorclaws get the blurring claws feat. ;)

And, uh ... there are no longstriders ... There are longtooths though. :P

Sorry about that. The point however stands, longtooth shifters evoke a feeling of having a pretty vicious bite because of their large teeth, yet no bite exists.

As for the blurring claws, doesn't it add 1 point of damage or something trivial like that? What happens if I want to play a shifter character that tears things apart with his bare hands? Great. The only option is to be forced to play a monk, which isn't released fully yet, or use improvised weapon unarmed attacks. Yay. In a game where statistics matter as much as they do in D&D, my character is sub-par and thus ineffective.
#38

Alex_

Jun 26, 2009 11:46:02
Sorry about that. The point however stands, longtooth shifters evoke a feeling of having a pretty vicious bite because of their large teeth, yet no bite exists.

As for the blurring claws, doesn't it add 1 point of damage or something trivial like that? What happens if I want to play a shifter character that tears things apart with his bare hands? Great. The only option is to be forced to play a monk, which isn't released fully yet, or use improvised weapon unarmed attacks. Yay. In a game where statistics matter as much as they do in D&D, my character is sub-par and thus ineffective.

3E unarmed attacks were just pathetic, even those granted by Shifting. Take a -2 penalty to all attacks to do d4+str damage. Or an extra attack at a -5 penalty to do 1d6+ Str damage.

Beasthide, Cliffwalk, and Longstride were better.

Most unarmed Shifter builds ended up going with Monk for the increased unarmed damage.

Also, sub-par (which is simply below the bar) does not mean ineffective (which means having no effect). Longtooth shifters do get a bonus to damage while shifting. There's your growing teeth providing a bonus to unarmed attacks.
#39

That_Blasted_Somoflange

Jun 27, 2009 5:59:19
3E unarmed attacks were just pathetic, even those granted by Shifting. Take a -2 penalty to all attacks to do d4+str damage. Or an extra attack at a -5 penalty to do 1d6+ Str damage.

And since this is 4e we are talking about, there could have been a huge improvement since a smaller weapon can do considerable damage based on powers.
Beasthide, Cliffwalk, and Longstride were better.

Most unarmed Shifter builds ended up going with Monk for the increased unarmed damage.

I agree that this was a problem in 3.x. Good thing we're talking about 4e.

Also, sub-par (which is simply below the bar) does not mean ineffective (which means having no effect). Longtooth shifters do get a bonus to damage while shifting. There's your growing teeth providing a bonus to unarmed attacks.

Unfortunately, I believe, in D&D being sub-par IS ineffective. If you have a striker that can't hit, they're useless. So if given the choice between using the flavourful natural weapons which have no proficiency bonus and can only do d4 damage and, say a longsword that does d8 and gives a +3 to hit. Which is more useful? Not to mention, RAW don't let you enchant your natural weapons unless you're a monk.

D&D is a game that is built around combat, nothing more. Yes, you CAN do more with the game, but at it's core it is all about fighting monsters. If you can't do that, you are ineffective in the game, and really a hindrance to the group.

There are a few other problems with the shifter - for one, you have have the crap kicked out of you before you can use your powers. Woo-hoo. Fun. So, to really benefit from your shifter racial powers you have to play a melee character.

I do believe that 4e is the best version of D&D so far, however, the design team dropped the ball big time when it came to the shifters. At the very least they should have been built along the lines of the genasi - one race, multiple manifestations.
#40

malisteen

Jun 27, 2009 6:25:52
using unarmed attacks with a normally weapon using class starts bad and gets worse. Unless you're playing a monk, you don't get to fight unarmed. It's just the way D&D works.

And the refluffing argument only goes so far. I mean, taken to extremes, why even have a shifter race? just play a human and put your stat, skill, and feat choices towards something shifter-y. Why have half elves or half orcs? again, you could just play a human and call them half elves or half orcs. Why have elves or dwarves? Nothing in the human entry says mechanically that they can't be short & bearded or tall & pointy-eared, just put put your stat towards con or dex respectively, and use your bonus feat for toughness or proficiency with a bow!

For that matter, why have a paladin or swordmage class? Just play a fighter, and re-fluff your powers as divine or arcane respectively! Train the heal skill for lay on hands! Buy a magic sword to give your attacks elemental damage!



I'm not necessarily saying more shifter types are needed. There does eventually reach a point where there are too many options and they stop making sense. But a kneejerk response of 'Mechanical variety is bad, just refluff' really doesn't make sense within the context of D&D, even 4th edition.

The shifter concept, much as the genasi elemental concept, requires some variety to represent - Wizards acknowledges as much by there being two types of shifter to begin with. Whether two is the right number or two few is a legitimate topic for debate & discussion.
#41

Arcane_Guyver

Jun 27, 2009 6:29:30
So if given the choice between using the flavourful natural weapons which have no proficiency bonus and can only do d4 damage and, say a longsword that does d8 and gives a +3 to hit. Which is more useful? Not to mention, RAW don't let you enchant your natural weapons unless you're a monk.

This is entirely the reason why shifters don't get claw weapons or a bite attack - it simply won't compete with a character's regular attacks, for either proficiency bonus or enhancement bonus. So they do the next best thing: if you hit with a melee attack, you also hit with your claws or bite, dealing extra damage.
#42

celticmutt

Jun 27, 2009 8:01:53
Which is also why the Gnoll Claw Fighter feat was so poorly designed.
#43

Siberys

Jun 27, 2009 10:15:26
If you search enough, you'll find that some person, I think he's a really handsome and cool guy, has tried to make Proper Eberronian shifters - or shifters that are more like the 3.x counterparts.

You mean me? I greatly appreciate the well-deserved compliments... :P

As for natural weapons being useless at higher levels? All it takes is to design some magic items that bestow their enchantment on the natural weapon. There's a description of such an item in that PDF.

NOTE: I left out Gorebrute an Swiftwing, though I could make some up. I took them out due to some legitimate flavor complaints fielded about them in my games.

Also, this requires modifying or disallowing a number of existing shifter feats. My house rules document has that info, but it's mostly common sense changes.

EDIT: I've just realized I left out targets in a number of the powers. Another thing I need to fix... :embarrass
#44

Alex_

Jun 27, 2009 11:17:40
This is entirely the reason why shifters don't get claw weapons or a bite attack - it simply won't compete with a character's regular attacks, for either proficiency bonus or enhancement bonus. So they do the next best thing: if you hit with a melee attack, you also hit with your claws or bite, dealing extra damage.

This is how natural attacks were best utilized in 3E as well. Make your normal melee attacks, then toss in a Warforged Slam/Longtooth bite/Razorclaw claw at the end for a chance at a few extra points of damage.

Also, they had to put out the Shifter in time for the Eberron setting. Since the Shifter was never really defined by unarmed attacks (only a couple of types got them and the ones they got were pretty lame) and you still haven't perfected unarmed attacks (Monk is still in playtest and not due till a year later). Separate unarmed attacks for Shifters is a reasonable thing to leave out.

Also, only getting unarmed attacks while shifting would have been pretty sketchy. You can only shift after you've been bloodied, so your claws and teeth wouldn't even come up every fight so you can't really base a build around it. Furthermore, you have to make them compete with all the other weapons and powers. Is gaining the rough equivalent of an un-disarmable short/longsword when bloodied really that useful for many classes?
#45

That_Blasted_Somoflange

Jun 27, 2009 23:44:22
You mean me? I greatly appreciate the well-deserved compliments... :P

As for natural weapons being useless at higher levels? All it takes is to design some magic items that bestow their enchantment on the natural weapon. There's a description of such an item in that PDF.

NOTE: I left out Gorebrute an Swiftwing, though I could make some up. I took them out due to some legitimate flavor complaints fielded about them in my games.

Also, this requires modifying or disallowing a number of existing shifter feats. My house rules document has that info, but it's mostly common sense changes.

EDIT: I've just realized I left out targets in a number of the powers. Another thing I need to fix... :embarrass

Actually, I mean myself> http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=18238198#post18238198

Sorry to burst your bubble.
#46

awesome_dude

Jun 28, 2009 13:10:17
Wait what? I thought you were complimenting me!
#47

sephiwind

Jun 28, 2009 13:44:12
Wow I wasn't really expecting this much responce to this thread. I'm glad to see that I wasn't the only one that didn't like how they really cut down the race like they did.

Reading over both Siberys and Somoflange's version I have to say I like them both. Personally I prefer Sibery's more but if they would have went that route you would probably have had the FR people saying that's how the Genasi should have been done, and I woudl be in agreement with them. Really I think both races should have gotten better treatment then they did, but really Shifters really were watered down.
#48

awesome_dude

Jun 28, 2009 15:21:07
Problems with Siberys' version: Redundant wording on when the powers can be used; just make them encounter powers and be done with it. There is a large discrepancy in power between the types of shifting. Shifting should last until the end of the encounter and some of those bonuses need to be cut. Resisting 10 damage from every attack until the end of the encounter (a shifter with this is not going to be rendered unconscious) is ridiculous for an encounter power. Bonuses to defenses are not given unless the stat bonuses overlap, and never to AC.

Somoflange: Lose a healing surge to use your racial power = No. There is absolutely no justification for this. Not a mechanical one and not one of flavor. As with Siberys, there is a large discrepancy in power (= imbalanced) between the traits. Gorebrute gaining extra damage equal to their strength bonus? And knock their target prone? Gorebrute gives you your healing surge's value, plus a bonus to your defenses. Sort of a second wind, jr. Contrast with the natural weapons provided by Razorclaw and Longtooth, which don't even have a proficiency bonus.

I don't blame you two for trying: Shifters are a ***** to get right in 4th Edition. WotC has come closest and their version does not require what is basically analogous to trying to shove a cubic brick through a square hole.
#49

Siberys

Jun 28, 2009 19:20:59
With regards to the redundant wording, there's a reason they're like that. If they were encounter powers, then they might as well be constant benefits, unless I imposed the "can't use unless bloodied" clause, which I specifically avoided - I find that nonsensical and not particularly useful. As is, it can be used for the whole of one encounter, then after bloodied the rest of the day.

As for the balance of powers... Yeah, Beasthide specifically was one I was worried about, ditto on the improved trait benefits. I'm going to be going back over these with an eye for balance. When I wrote them an age ago, it was mostly off the cuff, trying to figure out how shifting would work.

And your last problem (the defenses one) is not necessarily true; reference Changelings. I'll be keeping it.

In other words, a redesign of the powers and some feats is in order. I'll probably be making a weretouched master PP to match.
#50

That_Blasted_Somoflange

Jun 29, 2009 5:07:56
Well, I did do a few versions. That was probably just an older post, since the search feature consists of going through every forum manually, I didn't get one of the ones with the latest info. However, I will post the latest update below. You will note that I did get rid of the healing surge use, etc. And no, the claws don't get a proficiency bonus, but they do get a bonus to hit, which is mean to offset that your claws can't be enchanted. The natural weapons though, can be used with powers.

Show
Homebrew Shifter

Ferocious heirs of the wild,
the perfect fusion of civilized race and wild beast

RACIAL TRAITS

Average Height: 5´ 7˝–6´ 0˝
Average Weight: 130–180 lb.

Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Common, choice of one other
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance
Lycanthropic Heritage: You may choose one shifting trait (you can choose others with the Mongrel Lineage feat) that you display when you use the Bestial Shifting power.
You gain the Bestial Shifting Power

Bestial Shifting
You tap into your lycanthropic heritage, releasing the inner beast
Encounter
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You can activate one of your shifter traits which lasts till the end of your next turn.
Sustain Minor If you can activate more than one shifter trait, both are sustained.

Longstride: You increase your speed by 2.

Razorclaw: Your claws on both hands elongate and sharpen, giving you a natural weapon with +3 to hit and doing 1d6 damage. The bonus to hit increases to +6 and damage becomes 1d8 at 11th level, and +9 and damage becomes 1d10 at 21st. Razorclaw natural weapons are treated as having the Off Hand and High Crit keywords.

Beasthide: You gain resist all 2.

Longtooth: You teeth elongate and sharpen giving you a natural weapon that is +3 to hit and doing 1d6 damage. If you hit the opponent is grabbed. If the opponent breaks free from the grab they take another 1d6 damage. The bonus to hit increases to +6 to hit and damage becomes 1d8 at 11th level, to +9 to hit and damage becomes 1d10 at 21st level.

Cliffwalk: You gain a climb speed equal to your speed, as well you also gain a +5 bonus to all climb checks. You do not provide combat advantage while climbing.

Wildhunt: You ignore the penalties for concealment and total concealment, also you may reroll any perceptions checks, but you must keep the second result regardless.

Truedive: You gain a swim speed equal to your speed, as well you gain a +5 bonus to all endurance checks made to hold your breath. You add your constitution modifier to the number of rounds you can hold your breath before making a save (minimum 1).

Gorebrute: You grow horns or tusks and gain bonus damage equal to your strength modifier on charge attacks, as well as knock the target prone. This trait allows you to activate Bestial Shifting as a free action on a charge. However, you can only activate one trait when doing this in this fashion and it cannot be sustained.

Dreamsight: You gain blindsight equal to 1+Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), this replaces your normal vision type while it is active.

Swiftwing: You grow leathery wings similar to a bats. You treat all jump checks as well as if you had a running start, as well you may make acrobatic checks as if you were trained to avoid falling damage. If you are trained in acrobatics you gain a +5 bonus to checks made to avoid falling damage.
This trait allows you to activate bestial shifting as a free action immediate interrupt any time you would take falling damage, but cannot be sustained if activated in this fashion. If used in this manner you cannot activate another trait at the same time.

* Natural weapons are treated just like weapons for powers marked with the weapon keyword, however they cannot be dropped or disarmed. For the purposes of requirements and use, natural weapons are treated as light blades. You cannot enchant natural weapons.


Shifter feats:
Heroic:
Mongrel Lineage
Requirement: Shifter
you may select an additional shifter trait. This feat can be taken more than once but always applies to a different shifter trait.

Unrivaled Ferocity
Requirement: Shifter with Razorclaw or Longtooth traits
Your natural weapons gain the brutal 1 keyword. At 11th level this becomse brutal 2, at 21st this becomes brutal 3.