| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1ellorinNov 11, 2009 7:55:40 | The title is self-explanatory From what can be read in the excerpt it seems that they are actually quite distinctive from the dragonborn. Their role is very different and works perfectly for Eberron without any need for adaptations. Ironically the way draconians are created makes it very unlikely
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| #2CentauriNov 11, 2009 8:33:56 | Something always vaguely bugged me about the draconians. Maybe it was their name, or maybe it was tied up with my dislike of Dragonlance in general. That said, I like your suggestions and I'll think about using them if I ever try to involve these creatures in my non-Dragonlance settings. |
| #3SacramentNov 11, 2009 11:15:29 | Yuan-ti's hate dragons? Is it because they were exiled from Argonessen? |
| #4ellorinNov 11, 2009 13:50:02 | Precisely. The sacking of Io'vakas was a nasty story. |
| #5bobiagoNov 11, 2009 15:26:48 | I like using Githyanki as the signature "we kicked the dragons' **** and lived to tell the tale" race. If they can use them for mounts, they can certainly breed their eggs and turn them into vile corrupted creatures. I have been playing with the idea of the Gith being another genetic offshoot of the Eladrin, so the plane raiding Gith become just a more successful prosecution of that war. |
| #6ellorinNov 11, 2009 16:03:10 | Really? Interesting. I prefer the version where the daelkyr destroyed their world. And, if i may ne so bold, it sounds strange to use the red-dragon/githyanki pact for Eberron(the 3,5 PGtE explicitly denied its existence). How do you explain it? I'm curious... |
| #7GiloNov 11, 2009 16:24:09 | As I understand it: the Gith made a pact with Tiamat (aka Takhisis - the Dark Queen of the Dragonlance setting), she gave them the power over the red-dragons -which is Ellorin's first suspect. |
| #8ellorinNov 11, 2009 16:35:55 | I know next to nothing about Dragonlance. Hm...it could work, but how many dragons would accept becoming a mount of a lesser race? If anything, Eberron's dragon are even more vain(see Thir).hen again, it might work the other way around(the dragon commands, the githyanki obey). I'm not sure about that. Dragon-riders in Eberron feel a little weird to me. That's just a personal thing though-the idea is solid. |
| #9Duke5150Nov 11, 2009 17:24:30 | I know next to nothing about Dragonlance. Hm...it could work, but how many dragons would accept becoming a mount of a lesser race? Ansalonian dragons accept riders in times of war, when they were called to serve by either paladine or takhisis. A dragon rider and its mount would often form bonds the way talenta and valenar do. Not all dragons form bonds with their riders and sometimes the dragon won't listen to its patron deities commands. For instance, takhisis called a white dragon from icereach to fight, and it ignored the call. Eventually a dark knight showed up, claiming he was to be the dragons rider. They flew off to regroup with the whitewing but the white dragon claimed to be tired and sick, landing on an iceflow in the middle of the freezing ocean. There both dragon and mount stayed. The rider frozen to death. This is when the white dragon got up, shook its head and flew back home. Having pretended to be ill. That is a rare example though, as many dragons are loyal to their riders. Of all the evil dragons of krynn, blue dragons were the most loyal and the bonds they formed with their riders are legendary, like that of kitiara and skie. Eberron dragons are nothing like that and the idea of lesser beings not only riding them, but commanding them would be a joke. If you there were dragonriders in eberron, it would be a rare exception. Eberron dragons have more important things to do with their time, than waste time helping short lived races with tasks that don't matter. Unless of course, its connected to the prophecy, the overlords or the lords of dust. As for draconians in eberron? I like the talon of tiamat idea, which is basically how they were created in dragonlance. wizards and clerics creating a horrible ritual to corrupt dragon eggs. Metallic draconians are evil or unaligned. Chromatic draconians are good or unaligned (good in DL) I'm not feeling the other ideas though. Creating draconians should be limited to one group (talon) and a well guarded secret. Dragons view draconians with distaste or outright hatred and would never create such abominations. Hell, even draconians don't like being draconians, as they suffer memories of their draconic heritage. Dreams of flying, power and what its like to be a real dragon, then they wake up to what they are. Abominations created by humans to be slaves. Chromatic draconians hate what they are so much, they don't even want to breed and are so ashamed at who they are that facing a real dragon would probably be impossible. I won't be including draconians in eberron, personally, because I also run dragonlance. But I have a ritual from the talon of tiamat that gives dragonborn explosion (fireball) deaththroes. |
| #10bobiagoNov 12, 2009 10:50:52 | Let me preface by saying that I am not as faithful an adherent to canon as some, so this may not be to others taste. I'm not forcing this on anyone, and am willing to hear/debate ideas that are better, as long as the criterion for better is not just that it is canonical or virtually canonical (i.e. a post by KB). First, I run Eberron as a Geocentric universe, where the Sun is Dol Arrah, at least as far as the PC's are concerned. The Planes are visible as subtly colored globs (like visible nebulae) out in the Astral Sea, and get brighter/larger as they wax. There are no stars other than a single, inconstant bright one (and it is either Xoriat or a harbinger of same - the PC's, and I for that matter, don't know yet). Geocentrism just fits the creation myth better in my view, and I don't need to explain the astral physics outside of "it's magic". As such, the explanation of "Xoriat blew up the Gith homeworld" doesn't work for me. Second, I am not a huge fan of Gith. I don't dislike them, and think they have a place, but I don't want to jump through a lot of hoops or manipulate the world to give them their own special identity. I know some people do, and that's great, but I just want them to fit within my established framework. Third, I have never been happy with the rationale for why the Elf/Dragon wars have not been a total Draconic blowout. I know, something spooky about the Undying Court is behind it, but what that something spooky is has been left to the DM to decide, and as DM I have yet to come up with anything that isn't completely lame. "It's because of the Prophecy", is not necessarily lame, but since it is already the reason why the Dragon's haven't overrun the world it is at least redundant. Fourth, counter to one of the important design imperatives that there shall be no elven subraces I have never had a problem with elven subraces and actually think they are kind of cool. So my Valenar, Aereni and "Traditional" (Eldeen, Sharn, or wherever they are found) Elves are all descended from different key ancestors (as are Vulkoori, Qabalrin or Sulatar "Drow"). I loathe half-races, so my half-elf/Khoravar are also just a humanish elven subrace as well. Adding the Gith to that list (they do look vaguely elf-y, or at least it's imaginable to my eyes) was pretty easy. Note that I do this all with fluff - the mechanics stay true to the system, although I do allow the racial feats from FRPG if the players desire. So, by long way of coming around to it, I am attempting to add Gith and reconcile my longstanding issues with the Elf/Dragon wars by centering the prosecution of that war on the warlike Gith. So enter the pact that Gith made with Tiamat, giving the Gith some fiendish artifacts (like Orbs of Dragonkind) that let them hold their own against the Dragons, enslave them, use them for mounts (just to stick it to them), and corrupt their eggs into nasty little Draconians. They do all of this from the mobile sanctuaries in the Astral Sea. And, since Tiamat is not about wiping the Dragons out, but rather corrupting them, this is all just a diversionary tactic in her clever plan. So, long story, but I like the OP's idea that they are based in Tiamat, but since the Talons are more about subtlety and corruption from within, I don't think they would resort to tactics that would enrage a dragon as much as taking their eggs and turning it into something horrifying. However, Tiamat occasionally needs the use of a blatant, outrageous enemy as a distraction, and that enemy is the Gith. |
| #11ellorinNov 12, 2009 12:43:11 |
Are we talking about the same Talons of Tiamat? The ones who devour eggs to spawn half-dragon rakshasas? |
| #12HellcowNov 12, 2009 13:33:46 | Third, I have never been happy with the rationale for why the Elf/Dragon wars have not been a total Draconic blowout. I know, something spooky about the Undying Court is behind it, but what that something spooky is has been left to the DM to decide, and as DM I have yet to come up with anything that isn't completely lame. Just to speak to the canonical reasons... First, the "wars" were a far different thing from the conflict between dragon and giant. To quote Dragons of Eberron: Many find it impossible to imagine that the Aereni could stand against the force that utterly destroyed Xen’drik. In truth, the elves have never faced the full power of Argonnessen. The strike on Xen’drik was carried out by the full, unified force of Argonnessen; the elf–dragon wars have involved only a few flights from the Light of Siberys. The fact that the Undying Court has been able to hold off the dragons remains an impressive feat, but it has not faced the power that ravaged a continent. Beyond that, it's not that the Undying Court is "spooky". Looking again to DoE, "Thousands of years of research into necromancy and the energies of Argonnessen produced the Undying Court, an alliance of deathless elves with a gestalt power that rivaled the Overlords of the first age." As a unified force, the Undying Court is the closest thing to a true incarnate god that exists in the setting. It's tied to the basic principle that underlies many of the faiths of Eberron. The Blood of Vol holds that all mortal creatures have a spark of divinity within. The Silver Flame is the power of noble souls united as a weapon against the darkness. The Undying Court works on a similar principle to the Silver Flame, but embodied within the UC itself. The drawback is that this limits their influence to Aerenal itself. Unlike the Silver Flame, which is disembodied and known across Eberron, the full divine force of the UC can only be brought to bear within their sphere of influence, which is why they've never been able to take the fight to Argonnessen. But within that sphere of influence, they are astonishingly powerful. In my opinion, the Elf-Dragon Wars were an amazing display of magical power, with the physical battle skills of the Tairnadal only coming into play when a dragon manages to slip through the mystical conflagaration (like a single missile getting through a missile defense system - still capable of causing great damage if not dealt with). But even this wouldn't matter if the Light of Siberys truly wanted Aerenal destroyed. Again, they've never sent their full power against it. It could be because of the Prophecy. But if you want my honest opinion? It's a training exercise. That's why it comes and goes. We've got a new graduating class, and what's the graduation exercise? Attacking Aerenal. You'll be graded on your mystical and physical performance. This comes back to draconic indifference. Sure, their actions may result in the death of thousands of elves. All in a days work. Or, looking to Dragons of Eberron: Another possibility is that the struggle is a form of exercise for the dragons, a proving ground for the younger warriors of the Light of Siberys. Conversely, it might be that the wars are fought to test the elves and harden them for some future conflict, just as a soldier will sharpen his blade in preparation for battles to come. So if you play off that last sentence, the dragons have never wanted to destroy the elves; they want them to be ready for an upcoming battle with the Lords of Dust or the revenant daelkyr. The fact that the wars kill thousands of elves is, again, not their concern. Meanwhile, looking to why the dragons don't rule the world, that one is Tiamat. The further the dragons spread, the more they engage in acts of domination or tyranny, the more her power grows. It's the dark side: they KNOW that there is a force within that can seize control of them and turn them into monsters if they go too far. This doesn't stop individuals; one lord of the Vast isn't going to tip the scales. But it's enough to cause the Conclave to hold the species back. They could rule the lesser races... at the price of being enslaved themselves. They are smart enough to realize that and show restraint. Anyhow, that's the canon theory. As always, you're free to do what you want! |
| #13bobiagoNov 12, 2009 14:47:56 | Thanks Keith, that's both canonical and cool. |
| #14vigilant1Jan 17, 2010 5:18:57 | This is off-topic, but is the orium dragon shown in the excerpt meant to be based off the metal orichalcum, described in Plato's dialogue on Atlantis? |