| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1dieffenbachjAug 27, 2009 23:38:43 | Now, I like the article's premise, but I have quite a few problems with it... which quickly devolve into a rant. #1 it discusses Lady Vol. What the hell, this is an article for players, can we at least PRETEND to remain consistent with the Eberron Player's Guide, that Lady Vol isn't publically known? #2 It advocates evil deities for PCs. I normally have never had a problem with this, but it does bother me that this is ALSO inconsistent with the EPG. #3 Not all of the domains are covered. This is the BIG thing for me, because this lackluster effort on the writer's part is going to propogate into the official rules of the Character Builder, which restricts domains based on your deity. Where's Poison? The idea of poison is perfect for the Mockery, who delves in both assassinations and betrayal--fitting with Poison's idea of poison being both physical and mental. Moon? We've never had a Moon god before, but The Traveler seems a fit for it's change side, or perhaps The Mockery for it's dark side, or The Shadow for being the reverse of the Sun. Or something. This is the ONLY domain I think they might've struggled to fit in! Winter? Is The Devourer not representative of nature's wrath and hunger for Winter to be applicable? Tyranny?? The Blood of Vol seems appropriate for it's evil side--and remember, for the purpose of this list, we're including the evil aspect of the deities as available for PCs. STRIFE for God's sake? They couldn't find a place for STRIFE in the Eberron deities list??? How about... The Shadow, "The Sovereign of Magic and Mayhem". I guess "Mayhem" and "Strife" are different things now. You know, I hate that my first post in these new community forums is so negative, but come ON. This is the most haphazard support for Eberron I've seen in an article. I feel like someone just said "Yeah, those Eberron people... just throw them a couple domains, and they'll be happy. Sure, it'll be hardcoded into the Character Builder in a couple months, thus officially ruling any PCs who want the Poison domain or the like as House Ruled and ineligable for use in certain events... but we threw them an article, they should be happy. Make sure the article is REALLY good for Forgotten Realms players though. Don't leave anything out for THEM."
And the best part of all this? The article was posted at the end of the month. We have exactly until THE END OF TODAY to make enough of a ruckus about this to get ALL of the divine domains from Divine Power added into Eberron! Otherwise, this gets added permanently to the compilation issue, coded into the character builder, and from THEN ON we don't get access to all of the Divine Power domains!
Great work. |
| #2AvonRekaesAug 28, 2009 0:29:18 | On the point of advocating evil gods for PCs:
I was actually pleasantly suprised by this, as it's a return to the original 3e Eberron Campaign Setting. I want to see evil gods with well-meaning followers (PCs) just as there are good gods with corrupted followers (villians). |
| #3Nibelung_ajrAug 28, 2009 0:34:32 | Strange, i liked the article. It gives a very nice base to us start our work, and have something to say to players who want the domain "x". Sure, some domains were out from eberron lore, but to be fair, i never used the domains exactly as they were writen on DP. Oh, you praise the Raven Queen, but wants to use the sun domain? Let's rephrase the domain effects, so that you can get the effects you like on the divinity you want. What about Solar Enemy being a wave of negative energy, turning foes into temporary undeads? Eberron dont have any world-scale living campaign anymore, like LFR. So, my opinion over "officially supported" is very light. Guides are better than stone-writen rules for Eberron (at least, until we have another Xen'drik Expeditions, or similar). Only my two cents. |
| #4Nai_CalusAug 28, 2009 0:37:57 |
Oh don't worry, there's some hardcore fluff failures in the FR stuff too. Nothing as horribly STUPID as omitting domains, but failures nonetheless. |
| #5AegeriAug 28, 2009 2:32:27 | The somewhat stupid thing with domains is they are always going to end up different depending on a persons opinion. If you limit them per God, then it just makes that fluctuation in opinion even more dramatic (such as omitting some domains over others). Personally I follow these as mere guidelines and won't be taking them seriously. It's easy to just add another feat in the character builder anyway using "houserule" so the lack of a domain feat doesn't bother me. |
| #6PJammaGodAug 28, 2009 6:43:59 | * Insert Segue here* I probably deserve a n00b status right now, but upon accessing the Dragon Contents page I'm finding the link to the Eberron/FR Domains article is blanked out regular text. Is there another hyperlink access for us DDI subscribers please? (I'd like to thoroughly read the article before posting a response). |
| #7GiloAug 28, 2009 7:01:24 | Is there another hyperlink access for us DDI subscribers please? (I'd like to thoroughly read the article before posting a response).
happened to me too (google ftw): |
| #8Marcus_MajarraAug 28, 2009 10:03:06 | #1 it discusses Lady Vol. What the hell, this is an article for players, can we at least PRETEND to remain consistent with the Eberron Player's Guide, that Lady Vol isn't publically known? I think this was inevitable. It would be inconsistent for the Blood of Vol not to be affiliated with the Undeath domain. I believe a fair middle ground would've been to mention how the faith is championed by martyrs who sacrifice the potential of the divinity within by becoming undead who defend the faithful. #2 It advocates evil deities for PCs. I normally have never had a problem with this, but it does bother me that this is ALSO inconsistent with the EPG. From a Dragon article, I don't mind at all. I don't see why there should be a deliberate attempt to keep the entire edition evil-free, when it comes to PCs. #3 Not all of the domains are covered. This is the BIG thing for me, because this lackluster effort on the writer's part is going to propogate into the official rules of the Character Builder, which restricts domains based on your deity. I disagree. Attempting to fit in all the domains would be like shoehorning all the PoL ideologies into Eberron's deities, which would be a mistake. Keep in mind that the domains in Divine Power were designed first and foremost to satisfy the needs of the pantheon presented in the PHB and the DMG. Where's Poison? The idea of poison is perfect for the Mockery, who delves in both assassinations and betrayal--fitting with Poison's idea of poison being both physical and mental. While I can easily accept followers of the Mockery using poison as a means to fight dishonorably, the faith isn't driven by the use of poison. To me, assigning the Poison domain to the Mockery would be the same as assigning it a theoretical Swords domain because swords are a tool of warfare and the Mockery is one of the three gods of war. The implication of poison within the Mockery's faithful goes nowhere nearly as far as it does with the cult of Zehir, which idolizes poison itself and its manifestations in the world. Moon? We've never had a Moon god before, but The Traveler seems a fit for it's change side, or perhaps The Mockery for it's dark side, or The Shadow for being the reverse of the Sun. Or something. This is the ONLY domain I think they might've struggled to fit in! None of your examples use the symbolism of the moon as a means to describe a god's areas of influence. Yes, the moon does symbolize change, which would certainly fall in with the Traveler's advocation of said change. However, the moon represents predictable change: it's shape changes following a predictable pattern. This is actually the opposite of what the Traveler proposes. There is also nothing connecting the moon to the Mockery either. The Mockery is a god of dirty fighting, treachery, and war. The moon has nothing to do with these concepts. Finally, I don't see how the moon can be perceived as the reverse of the sun. In fact, it pretty much acts like a nocturnal sun, shining light into the darkness. It's more like a beacon than something that spreads darkness, which would actually be what is opposite to the sun. Thus, I don't see how the Shadow falls into these concepts. Winter? Is The Devourer not representative of nature's wrath and hunger for Winter to be applicable? I don't believe the Devourer falls into this role at all. Winter doesn't represent nature's wrath and destructive, untamed side. It represents a part of the natural cycle where life stops (or, at the least, slows down), and becomes quiet. While I can certainly see followers of the Devourer reveling in the mighty awe of a destructive blizzard, but not moreso than they would for a tornado in the summer, or a flood in spring. If any of Eberron's faiths were to be associated with the Winter domain, it would have to be the aptly named Children of Winter, which are a druidic sect anyway. Tyranny?? The Blood of Vol seems appropriate for it's evil side--and remember, for the purpose of this list, we're including the evil aspect of the deities as available for PCs. The Blood of Vol doesn't advocate tyranny in any way. Even Lady Vol herself isn't a mighty tyrant within her own faith, as she doesn't impose her influence in a deliberate and overt way over her gathering. No deity in the Nine and Six and One promotes tyranny either. In fact, the only faith that promotes the idea of tyranny is the following of the Lord of Blades, which advocates dominion over the lesser races. STRIFE for God's sake? They couldn't find a place for STRIFE in the Eberron deities list??? How about... The Shadow, "The Sovereign of Magic and Mayhem". I guess "Mayhem" and "Strife" are different things now. On this one, you get no argument from me. How Bonner missed this one, I don't know. |
| #9GMforPowergamersAug 28, 2009 14:17:08 | what do you think is better taking a domain and makeing it fit, or only takeing the ones that fit? |
| #10sallaAug 28, 2009 16:44:51 | It's an easy fix, really. Even before this article came out, my philosophy was 'pitch it to me'. If you think a god should have a domain, explain to me why you think this is so. If it sounds good, I'll say yes. I can't remember which god covers animals and plants (Balinor?), but if someone was a divine character of Balinor and wanted Poison as a domain, I'd say yes. Why? Poisonous plants and animals exist, therefore that is obviously under said god's purview. |
| #11dieffenbachjAug 28, 2009 22:13:29 | Incidentally, I wasn't sayin git was necessarly BAD that we have encouragement of evil deific worship or mention of Lady Vol. But from a pure consistency standpoint, I think it's complete codswallop that we have an EPG which says one thing, and Dragon support for that EPG which say another. I have fond memories of my Good worshipper of the Blood of Vol... but I just hate inconsistency.
Poison, in Divine Power, doesn't just cover the physical, toxic chemical that slays mortals. Poison also covers EROSION of the mind through malicious ideas. And the Mockery is the god of betrayal and corruption, who tells his followers to corrupt other priests... at least according to Faiths of Eberron. Combine that fact with him also being the patron of assassins, Poison seems like the PERFECT domain, in both senses of the word. The Mockery won't just kill you with some arsenic, he'll metaphorically 'drip venom in your ears' and corrupt your mind. The same goes for Winter for the Devourer, actually. When you read the Divine Power excerpt, it talks about Winter not just representing the cold season, but also the hunger of nature, and the end of life cycles, and all that jazz. This goes either perfect for the Devourer--or The Keeper, forthat matter. As for the Moon, well, I agree it's the hardest to place really... there's no physical moon god in Eberron, but there are plenty, PLENTY of gods who are representative of the metaphysical ideas of the Moon. As for the Blood of Vol and Tyrrany, Blood of Vol in 3.5 was a Law and Evil domain religion; it seems fine to me to reflect this in 4E with Tyrrany, the epitome of Lawful Evil. I know it's not one of their primary focuses, but The Blood of Vol has always (behind the scenes) tried to position itself into places of power and control. Kaius was the epitome of this fact, the Blood gaining control of a friggin' King, until he decided he didn't like being their servant. I'm not familiar with Kaius' story too much but that is what I recall of it.
And if a player wants to make a Tyrrany cleric who follows an Eberron deity, with or without the Character Builder (and I always make my players go WITH for the sake of consistency) there's no way to do it without House Ruling it to go with Blood of Vol. I don't mind house rules. I make them all the time. But it gets me mad when I have to do it to fix problems, like "Not all of Divine Power is available in Eberron".
Also, I meant to say something along the lines of "I'm sure Forgotten Realms got screwed a little bit too, but at least they have all the domains" but in the heat of the moment my current phrasing seemed a bit punchier =P |
| #12jedi123Aug 28, 2009 22:26:03 | My two-cents:
In Eberron the gods are unknowable, unfathomable, and not truely known to exsist. This isn't a realm where god's interfere in the lives of mortals. Divine charecters reflect this by drawing power from their faiths, but more so than in other settings they get to decide that faith. It's not the god giving domain powers it's faith adding extra power in certain fields. SO as long as the player can explain why the follower of that fait has that ability it passes in my book.
This however doesn't address the issue with the Charecter builder. |
| #13Twiggly_the_GnomeAug 28, 2009 23:07:36 | The same goes for Winter for the Devourer, actually. When you read the Divine Power excerpt, it talks about Winter not just representing the cold season, but also the hunger of nature, and the end of life cycles, and all that jazz. This goes either perfect for the Devourer--or The Keeper, forthat matter. I'd be inclined to go with the latter, myself. It seems to fit the more unaligned view of the Keeper and death as a part of the natural cycle.
As for the Moon, well, I agree it's the hardest to place really... there's no physical moon god in Eberron, but there are plenty, PLENTY of gods who are representative of the metaphysical ideas of the Moon. The problem with a "Moon domain" in Eberron is the multiplicty of moons, each with different metaphysical associations. One would have a similar issue using said domain in a Dragonlance campaign. |
| #14Madfox11Aug 29, 2009 5:22:22 | This however doesn't address the issue with the Charecter builder. What issue? It requires you a few more clicks, but you can litterally take everything with everybody. The builder is going to mention your character is houseruled, but that is effectively the case anyway. Side note: if a deity had the Law and Evil domains in 3E I would not consitute that automatically to Tyranny. The alignment domains were almost automatically granted to the deities with said alignments regardless of whether they cared that much about them. I agree that the religion of Vol is not about tyranny or even domination. |
| #15jedi123Aug 29, 2009 7:21:52 | This however doesn't address the issue with the Charecter builder.
The OP is calling it an issue, and I was acknoledging that my view didn't fix the problem he was having with the builder. |
| #16AvonRekaesAug 29, 2009 11:30:07 | Tyranny doesn't fit the Blood of Vol because the Blood of Vol isn't Lawful Evil anymore, or Evil. It's Unaligned. No reason for it to have Tyranny. Also linking Tyranny to any old god/religion with the Law and Evil domains is kinda silly because gods ALWAYS had their alignment domains, no matter how little they cared about those alignments. |
| #17SiberysAug 29, 2009 11:42:46 | In my houserules document, I assigned domains to The Lord of Blades, the Becoming God, the Path of Inspiration, and the Draconic Prophecy (for those dragonborn characters who would treat it as a religion), the religions that got the lurch with the changeover to 4e. The Lord of Blades got Tyranny. I still need to decide if strife is worth adding to any deities. The Shadow and the Mockery seem like natural fits... I'm disappointed with the lack of moon, poison, and winter, but their lack of presence is understandable. EDIT: I've decided to give the Mockery in particular, and the Dark Six as a whole, the Strife domain. EDIT EDIT: I've added domains on as thus; Blood of Vol: Skill Dark Six: Strife the Mockery: Torment |
| #18Omen_of_PeaceSep 01, 2009 14:39:55 | I'd give Winter to the Keeper - winter is often associated with death. And I now see they gave it to the Raven Queen in the core setting... In my Eberron you can worship one of the moons or all of them together (like a poster above said, you can pretty much worship what you want). Poison I might give to the Dragon Below. |
| #19crow3333Sep 01, 2009 19:40:03 | for the love of bane can someone PLEASE post what tempus got stuck with I cant get my laptop to run anything right now and if they butchered tempus AND dont allow me to worship bane I may have to go on A WOTC drive bye |
| #20fortmanSep 02, 2009 17:24:59 |
Tempus got Protection, Strength and War. Bane got Civilization, Tyranny and War. |