Dragonborn of Argonessen and Khorvaire? *SPOILERS* - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dragonborn of Argonessen and Khorvaire? *SPOILERS*

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
JohnLynch
May 01, 2009 8:22:29 THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS TO ONE OF THE EBERRRON BOOKS. I WON'T SAY WHICH ONE BECAUSE THAT ITSELF MIGHT BE A SPOILER.

So from my understanding of what Keith has said and the Dragon Forge book (haven't read it myself). There are two groups of Dragonborn. Those who live in Argonessen and the Dragonborn of Khorvaire (most PCs should belong to the Khorvairan Dragonborn rather then the Argonessen ones).

I'd be interested to hear how people think there came to be 2 groups of Dragonborn with the Argonessen ones knowing nothing about the Khorvairan ones.

Now given the novels aren't canon, we can say that the Argonessen ones don't actually exist unless we want them to exist. But having reworked my campaign a fair bit,
Show
I've increase the presence of Dragons and I'd like to explore the Argonessen Dragonborn.
#2
lyran
May 01, 2009 13:50:34 First I'm going to have to correct you. Dragon Forge is James Wyatt's novel, not Keith Baker's.

It is an intresting theory. The problem is that the conclave destroyed every Dragonborn if they were acting against the conclave, and thus, in the conclave's eyes, a threat to order and Argonessen.

I supose that some Dragonborn could have decided that they had no chance of surviving and surenderd. The concalve then could have sparred them.

Of course some could have fled to Khorvaire and survived.
#3
oid
May 01, 2009 14:17:13 i like the sound of that. So is the Khorvairian population of Dragonborn hostile or indifferent to the dragons of Argonessen? and how do they feel about those dragonborn that stayed? and when did the dragonborn leave?

i guess the dragonborn would be indifferent to the dragons, kinda like they are with tieflngs in core. The dragons most likely would care either and the Argon dragonborn might see them as less than them, being influenced by the common races and distant from the splendor of their dragon masters. i assume it's been along time of course maybe during the Age of Monsters but that's just a wild guess.

i think House Denieth loves the dragonborn. they would make great mercs and guards for them. Their martial strength, powerful magic, military mindset, leadership qualities, and dragonborn loyalty would be a huge plus.
#4
Nived
May 01, 2009 16:26:58 I believe James said that when he originally started writting Dragon Forge that Eberron was still on track go go for that two year jump...

Of course that was put to an end, some say by the boards exploding, some say Bill Slavicsek called a halt to it... who knows... anyway.

So as the timeline is not advancing, Argonessen is still remaining largely a land of mystery, and there being a need for Dragonborn PCs to have a relitively easier background than at level 1 somehow making the dangerous voyage from Seren to Khorvaire every time...

I have conjectured my own theory on Dragonborn's eventual Eberron origins. Like I say its conjecture... largely taken from Keith Baker's Dragonshard on Kobolds, and James Wyatt's explaination for the origin of Dragonborn in Races and Classes the 4th edition preview book.

The two of those origins are practically the same. Many kobolds in Eberron believe they were the first form of life on Eberron formed from blood spray from the battle of Siberys, Khyber, and Eberron. In the generic Points of Light James Wyatt mentioned an origin story for Dragonborn being formed from the blood of Io when the Primodials split him in half to form Bahamut and Tiamat.

They are just too similar not to use. They are practically the same thing, and I personally find linking the two races endlessly amusing, kinda like a hobgoblin/goblin thing.

Speaking of the goblins I'd explain Dragonborn presence on Khorvaire as they once had an empire there, one that made war with Dhakaan and lost, lost hard. The goblinoid empires conquered the dragonborn empire, (much like Galifar did say the Mror Holds), after the crushing defeat the dragonborn were scattered into their "few rootless clans" (as the PHB 4e puts it) they never recovered. After the humans came they intigrated into human culture existing on the perifery. They are around, never in large numbers, but they're around.
#5
AvonRekaes
May 01, 2009 16:32:39 The Dragonborn might be the effects of a curse laid upon true dragons during the Age of Demons. Dragons fought the Rakshasas and their Rajahs on all continents of the world.

It could be that during the war, there were battles where the dragons met limited resistance and were maybe a little confused at the useless spells thrown their way. They were hit, and they didn't do anything immediately apparent. Shrugging their shoulders, the dragons went back to their roosts and eventually mated. The eggs produced from these dragons, however, hatched dragonborn. Weak, mewling, and shortlived compared to the mighty dragons of Argonessen.

You see, this would be a perfect strategy for the immortal fiends. When a fiend dies, it will be reborn. Even if it's not the same personality, it will be of roughly the same power level. So the fiends could go into battle, perform complicated curses that have no immediate threat, and be wiped out. The dragons return, and spread the curse among their people. The dragon's only advantage over the demons, tremendous personal power, would be weakened over the course of generations which is nothing to immortals.

Obviously, this form of attack was eventually countered by the Dragons, possibly with help from their couatl allies. The Dragons began to breed true again. But they didn't know what to do with the Dragonborn. So they used them as expendable shocktroops. After the war, they were more or less left where they were.

On Khorvaire, the real battleground, I'd think, since it's the homeland of the fiends, the numbers of dragonborn would be horrendously low since they died in legions while fighting there. On Argonessen where it's relatively safer, they were more, and they were eventually released at least from their military service, if not completely emancipated.

EDIT:

This actually combines well with Nived's idea up top. Regardless of how few dragonborn remained at the end of the Demon-Dragon War, there was literally millions of years to get their population back up. A war with Dhakaan would be a good explaination. I also like how it makes Dhakaan even cooler, because now we suddenly have a historical account of them being badass and winning (Sure they defeated the Dealkyr with Gatekeeper help, but they were crippled and eventually collapsed because of it).

EDIT 2: Return of Edit
Just had another idea. Instead of the Dragonborn being degenerated dragons, they could be the Dragon's attempt at creating expendable footsoldiers, taking the Couatl's example with the Shullassakar and creating humanoids in their image instead. The placement of Dragonborn in Khorvaire could either be by neglect as in my original idea above, or Dragonborn clans could hold the same function as Shulassakar, guarding demon prisons.
Either way, a Dragonborn/Dhakaani war would still be awesome.
#6
ellorin
May 01, 2009 16:46:19
Either way, a Dragonborn/Dhakaani war would still be awesome.

Most certainly.

P.S. In a previous (3.5) campaign there were some dragonborn with the lizardfolk in the Talenta plains until the Dhakaani forced them out of the plains and into the jungles. A true fallen dragonborn realm would be a much better alternative though.
#7
JohnLynch
May 01, 2009 21:10:43
First I'm going to have to correct you. Dragon Forge is James Wyatt's novel, not Keith Baker's.

What I meant was based on Keiths comments in the forum, PC Dragonborn will be from Khorvaire. ALSO in addition based on a book, there are Dragonborn who live in Argonessen.

It is an intresting theory. The problem is that the conclave destroyed every Dragonborn if they were acting against the conclave, and thus, in the conclave's eyes, a threat to order and Argonessen.

I supose that some Dragonborn could have decided that they had no chance of surviving and surenderd. The concalve then could have sparred them.

That's what I'm imagining. Those who didn't escape were beaten into submission. Now after thousands of years the Argonessen Dragonborn have completely forgotten about the long ago war. The Khorvairan Dragonborn might remember the war, but I think they'd have forgotten its cause or how their race came to be.

I have conjectured my own theory on Dragonborn's eventual Eberron origins. Like I say its conjecture... largely taken from Keith Baker's Dragonshard on Kobolds, and James Wyatt's explaination for the origin of Dragonborn in Races and Classes the 4th edition preview book.

The two of those origins are practically the same. Many kobolds in Eberron believe they were the first form of life on Eberron formed from blood spray from the battle of Siberys, Khyber, and Eberron. In the generic Points of Light James Wyatt mentioned an origin story for Dragonborn being formed from the blood of Io when the Primodials split him in half to form Bahamut and Tiamat.

They are just too similar not to use. They are practically the same thing,

Definitely. And while I'd definitely want to keep that open as a possibility (at least to begin with), I'm definitely more interested in more mundane origins.

and I personally find linking the two races endlessly amusing, kinda like a hobgoblin/goblin thing.

I suggested in another thread that the Dragonborn were mutated Lizardfolk as a small group of Dragons were doing experiments in an attempt to create a new race, much like the couatl possibly did with turning humans into devas (which is my preferred deva origin at this point). It'd be quite easy to say Dragonborn were mutated kobolds (hence why they have a similar origin story).

It could be that during the war, there were battles where the dragons met limited resistance and were maybe a little confused at the useless spells thrown their way. They were hit, and they didn't do anything immediately apparent. Shrugging their shoulders, the dragons went back to their roosts and eventually mated. The eggs produced from these dragons, however, hatched dragonborn. Weak, mewling, and shortlived compared to the mighty dragons of Argonessen.

You see, this would be a perfect strategy for the immortal fiends. When a fiend dies, it will be reborn. Even if it's not the same personality, it will be of roughly the same power level. So the fiends could go into battle, perform complicated curses that have no immediate threat, and be wiped out. The dragons return, and spread the curse among their people. The dragon's only advantage over the demons, tremendous personal power, would be weakened over the course of generations which is nothing to immortals.

Now that's interesting.

An alternative if you wanted to turn it on its head and throw all assumptions out the window:

The ancient records speaking of Dragons, in fact refers to Dragonborn. It was the Dragonborn who were allied with the Couatl. As the war went on a curse was spread among the Dragonborn, they lost their intelligence and began to go on rampages. This curse didn't just affect them mentally, but also physically. Over time the cursed dragonborn would grow tremendously in size and also mutate many features. Some grew horns, others grew wings. This gave rise to the numerous types of Dragons that now exist.

This sickness wiped out most of the Dragonborn forces and so in reaction the Couatl sacrificed most of their kind to defeat the Rakshasa Rajahs. Those few that remained lived in hiding with the Dragonborn survivors. They worked together to undo the curse upon the gigantic Dragons, and eventually succeeded. While they could cure the mind, they were having much more difficulty in curing the physical abberations. The dragons decided against changing back to their Dragonborn appearances, and so they wiped out the secret labs.

Over the thousands years since, the small dragons would be called the Dragonborn while the gigantic ones would retain the name Dragons. Eventually the origin of the species would be forgotten by all except possibly the Dragon Conclave who keep it in secret for fear that it would destroy Dragon society. Although some remnant of it does exist in Dragonborn legends that outline how their race was created.

The Dragonborn were enslaved by their larger kin, and so it was for thousands of years. However when Tiamat rose to spread a corruption among the Dragons, what she did in actuality was reactivate the Rakshasa Rajah curse which lay dormant in all Dragons. The Dragonborn were able to once more deactivate the curse and save their kin, but they demanded a cost this time.

After Tiamat was destroyed the Dragonborn/Dragon treaty became enforced. Per the treaty the Dragons were forced to live only on one continent. Argonessen. The Dragonborn would be able to expand over the rest of Eberron as they desired. However the Dragonborn also demanded they be allowed to live independently of the Dragons on Argonessen as well. This treaty was upheld for thousands of years.

The Dragonborn forces outside of Argonessen were quite small. The largest of them were in Khorvaire and so most of the Dragonborn went to either Khorvaire or Argonessen (only those who didn't despite the Dragons ended up in Argonessen). Those that didn't retreat to either continent would die out within the next few hundred years.

The Khorvairan Dragonborn empire never recovered and so the planned expansion across all of Eberron never took place.

So is the Khorvairian population of Dragonborn hostile or indifferent to the dragons of Argonessen? and how do they feel about those dragonborn that stayed?

In all my origin stories (I'm sure I'll end up making a couple more) I leave that undefined. In ancient times they definitely either liked the Dragons or hated them. However what their attitude is in modern times I'll leave up to the ECG and EPG.

i assume it's been along time of course maybe during the Age of Monsters but that's just a wild guess.

Yup. Plenty of time for the Dragonborn to forget their race's origin allowing the DM to reveal the true origin to players if they so desire.

So as the timeline is not advancing, Argonessen is still remaining largely a land of mystery

I'm wondering how much is revealed in Dragons of Eberron? More then Secrets of Xen'drik? Less?

Anyway thanks for everyone's ideas. I'd definitely be interested in hearing more!
#8
rauric
May 01, 2009 21:45:35
I believe James said that when he originally started writting Dragon Forge that Eberron was still on track go go for that two year jump...

Two year jump. **Sniff** I wish they did not buckle to the whiners. Oh well, life goes on. ;)
#9
davethebrave371
May 02, 2009 14:47:17
Two year jump. **Sniff** I wish they did not buckle to the whiners. Oh well, life goes on. ;)

Oh Rauric, the only ones still talking about it, much less whining about it, are the group that lost the war. ;)
#10
Gilo
May 02, 2009 23:09:45
Oh Rauric, the only ones still talking about it, much less whining about it, are the group that lost the war. ;)

As a Cyre sympathizer I kinda hoped they will move the setting's time line four years back ;)

[Edit:]
About Dragons and Dragonborn:

I don't have a full working theory, I'm just thinking about the possibility that Dragons (perhaps a group like the Chamber) will look at the younger races gaining dragonmarks and fear that this shift in the Draconic Prophecy focus toward mortals merits a creation of a race (splinter race) which will be potentially more attuned with this new prophecy trend.

[Edit2:]
That means that Dragonborn race only exist for about 3300 years.

In case Dragonborns already existed on Argonessen before that time (maybe because of a tactical need for humanoid soldiers during the Demon/Giant/Elf wars) there will still be a need to migrate them to Khorvaire (or Aerenal) so they can be closer to where the Draconic Prophecy 'action' is (so that the Dragons as a race can stay relevant and in focus with the prophecy).
#11
Hellcow
May 03, 2009 6:26:19 Needless to say, the 4E Eberron books are already nailed down. I can't say exactly what approach we went with, but at least some of you should be happy with it. ;)
#12
lyran
May 03, 2009 11:19:24
Needless to say, the 4E Eberron books are already nailed down. I can't say exactly what approach we went with, but at least some of you should be happy with it. ;)

What ever you went with I'll be happy with it. ;)
#13
JohnLynch
May 03, 2009 22:07:16
What ever you went with I'll be happy with it. ;)

And if I'm not I'll change it :D

This thread's mostly for fun. ;)
#14
Omen_of_Peace
May 05, 2009 11:22:55
Either way, a Dragonborn/Dhakaani war would still be awesome.

Ooh, very nice !

Just to turn the "cursed birth" version on its head: maybe it's the Dragons who cursed lesser fiends to progressively turn them into beings that resembled them. Whether the transformed fiends then switched sides or not is lost in the mists of time...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 JohnLynch May 01, 2009 8:22:29	THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS TO ONE OF THE EBERRRON BOOKS. I WON'T SAY WHICH ONE BECAUSE THAT ITSELF MIGHT BE A SPOILER. So from my understanding of what Keith has said and the Dragon Forge book (haven't read it myself). There are two groups of Dragonborn. Those who live in Argonessen and the Dragonborn of Khorvaire (most PCs should belong to the Khorvairan Dragonborn rather then the Argonessen ones). I'd be interested to hear how people think there came to be 2 groups of Dragonborn with the Argonessen ones knowing nothing about the Khorvairan ones. Now given the novels aren't canon, we can say that the Argonessen ones don't actually exist unless we want them to exist. But having reworked my campaign a fair bit, Show I've increase the presence of Dragons and I'd like to explore the Argonessen Dragonborn.
#2 lyran May 01, 2009 13:50:34	First I'm going to have to correct you. Dragon Forge is James Wyatt's novel, not Keith Baker's. It is an intresting theory. The problem is that the conclave destroyed every Dragonborn if they were acting against the conclave, and thus, in the conclave's eyes, a threat to order and Argonessen. I supose that some Dragonborn could have decided that they had no chance of surviving and surenderd. The concalve then could have sparred them. Of course some could have fled to Khorvaire and survived.
#3 oid May 01, 2009 14:17:13	i like the sound of that. So is the Khorvairian population of Dragonborn hostile or indifferent to the dragons of Argonessen? and how do they feel about those dragonborn that stayed? and when did the dragonborn leave? i guess the dragonborn would be indifferent to the dragons, kinda like they are with tieflngs in core. The dragons most likely would care either and the Argon dragonborn might see them as less than them, being influenced by the common races and distant from the splendor of their dragon masters. i assume it's been along time of course maybe during the Age of Monsters but that's just a wild guess. i think House Denieth loves the dragonborn. they would make great mercs and guards for them. Their martial strength, powerful magic, military mindset, leadership qualities, and dragonborn loyalty would be a huge plus.
#4 Nived May 01, 2009 16:26:58	I believe James said that when he originally started writting Dragon Forge that Eberron was still on track go go for that two year jump... Of course that was put to an end, some say by the boards exploding, some say Bill Slavicsek called a halt to it... who knows... anyway. So as the timeline is not advancing, Argonessen is still remaining largely a land of mystery, and there being a need for Dragonborn PCs to have a relitively easier background than at level 1 somehow making the dangerous voyage from Seren to Khorvaire every time... I have conjectured my own theory on Dragonborn's eventual Eberron origins. Like I say its conjecture... largely taken from Keith Baker's Dragonshard on Kobolds, and James Wyatt's explaination for the origin of Dragonborn in Races and Classes the 4th edition preview book. The two of those origins are practically the same. Many kobolds in Eberron believe they were the first form of life on Eberron formed from blood spray from the battle of Siberys, Khyber, and Eberron. In the generic Points of Light James Wyatt mentioned an origin story for Dragonborn being formed from the blood of Io when the Primodials split him in half to form Bahamut and Tiamat. They are just too similar not to use. They are practically the same thing, and I personally find linking the two races endlessly amusing, kinda like a hobgoblin/goblin thing. Speaking of the goblins I'd explain Dragonborn presence on Khorvaire as they once had an empire there, one that made war with Dhakaan and lost, lost hard. The goblinoid empires conquered the dragonborn empire, (much like Galifar did say the Mror Holds), after the crushing defeat the dragonborn were scattered into their "few rootless clans" (as the PHB 4e puts it) they never recovered. After the humans came they intigrated into human culture existing on the perifery. They are around, never in large numbers, but they're around.
#5 AvonRekaes May 01, 2009 16:32:39	The Dragonborn might be the effects of a curse laid upon true dragons during the Age of Demons. Dragons fought the Rakshasas and their Rajahs on all continents of the world. It could be that during the war, there were battles where the dragons met limited resistance and were maybe a little confused at the useless spells thrown their way. They were hit, and they didn't do anything immediately apparent. Shrugging their shoulders, the dragons went back to their roosts and eventually mated. The eggs produced from these dragons, however, hatched dragonborn. Weak, mewling, and shortlived compared to the mighty dragons of Argonessen. You see, this would be a perfect strategy for the immortal fiends. When a fiend dies, it will be reborn. Even if it's not the same personality, it will be of roughly the same power level. So the fiends could go into battle, perform complicated curses that have no immediate threat, and be wiped out. The dragons return, and spread the curse among their people. The dragon's only advantage over the demons, tremendous personal power, would be weakened over the course of generations which is nothing to immortals. Obviously, this form of attack was eventually countered by the Dragons, possibly with help from their couatl allies. The Dragons began to breed true again. But they didn't know what to do with the Dragonborn. So they used them as expendable shocktroops. After the war, they were more or less left where they were. On Khorvaire, the real battleground, I'd think, since it's the homeland of the fiends, the numbers of dragonborn would be horrendously low since they died in legions while fighting there. On Argonessen where it's relatively safer, they were more, and they were eventually released at least from their military service, if not completely emancipated. EDIT: This actually combines well with Nived's idea up top. Regardless of how few dragonborn remained at the end of the Demon-Dragon War, there was literally millions of years to get their population back up. A war with Dhakaan would be a good explaination. I also like how it makes Dhakaan even cooler, because now we suddenly have a historical account of them being badass and winning (Sure they defeated the Dealkyr with Gatekeeper help, but they were crippled and eventually collapsed because of it). EDIT 2: Return of Edit Just had another idea. Instead of the Dragonborn being degenerated dragons, they could be the Dragon's attempt at creating expendable footsoldiers, taking the Couatl's example with the Shullassakar and creating humanoids in their image instead. The placement of Dragonborn in Khorvaire could either be by neglect as in my original idea above, or Dragonborn clans could hold the same function as Shulassakar, guarding demon prisons. Either way, a Dragonborn/Dhakaani war would still be awesome.
#6 ellorin May 01, 2009 16:46:19	Either way, a Dragonborn/Dhakaani war would still be awesome. Most certainly. P.S. In a previous (3.5) campaign there were some dragonborn with the lizardfolk in the Talenta plains until the Dhakaani forced them out of the plains and into the jungles. A true fallen dragonborn realm would be a much better alternative though.
#7 JohnLynch May 01, 2009 21:10:43	First I'm going to have to correct you. Dragon Forge is James Wyatt's novel, not Keith Baker's. What I meant was based on Keiths comments in the forum, PC Dragonborn will be from Khorvaire. ALSO in addition based on a book, there are Dragonborn who live in Argonessen. It is an intresting theory. The problem is that the conclave destroyed every Dragonborn if they were acting against the conclave, and thus, in the conclave's eyes, a threat to order and Argonessen. I supose that some Dragonborn could have decided that they had no chance of surviving and surenderd. The concalve then could have sparred them. That's what I'm imagining. Those who didn't escape were beaten into submission. Now after thousands of years the Argonessen Dragonborn have completely forgotten about the long ago war. The Khorvairan Dragonborn might remember the war, but I think they'd have forgotten its cause or how their race came to be. I have conjectured my own theory on Dragonborn's eventual Eberron origins. Like I say its conjecture... largely taken from Keith Baker's Dragonshard on Kobolds, and James Wyatt's explaination for the origin of Dragonborn in Races and Classes the 4th edition preview book. The two of those origins are practically the same. Many kobolds in Eberron believe they were the first form of life on Eberron formed from blood spray from the battle of Siberys, Khyber, and Eberron. In the generic Points of Light James Wyatt mentioned an origin story for Dragonborn being formed from the blood of Io when the Primodials split him in half to form Bahamut and Tiamat. They are just too similar not to use. They are practically the same thing, Definitely. And while I'd definitely want to keep that open as a possibility (at least to begin with), I'm definitely more interested in more mundane origins. and I personally find linking the two races endlessly amusing, kinda like a hobgoblin/goblin thing. I suggested in another thread that the Dragonborn were mutated Lizardfolk as a small group of Dragons were doing experiments in an attempt to create a new race, much like the couatl possibly did with turning humans into devas (which is my preferred deva origin at this point). It'd be quite easy to say Dragonborn were mutated kobolds (hence why they have a similar origin story). It could be that during the war, there were battles where the dragons met limited resistance and were maybe a little confused at the useless spells thrown their way. They were hit, and they didn't do anything immediately apparent. Shrugging their shoulders, the dragons went back to their roosts and eventually mated. The eggs produced from these dragons, however, hatched dragonborn. Weak, mewling, and shortlived compared to the mighty dragons of Argonessen. You see, this would be a perfect strategy for the immortal fiends. When a fiend dies, it will be reborn. Even if it's not the same personality, it will be of roughly the same power level. So the fiends could go into battle, perform complicated curses that have no immediate threat, and be wiped out. The dragons return, and spread the curse among their people. The dragon's only advantage over the demons, tremendous personal power, would be weakened over the course of generations which is nothing to immortals. Now that's interesting. An alternative if you wanted to turn it on its head and throw all assumptions out the window: The ancient records speaking of Dragons, in fact refers to Dragonborn. It was the Dragonborn who were allied with the Couatl. As the war went on a curse was spread among the Dragonborn, they lost their intelligence and began to go on rampages. This curse didn't just affect them mentally, but also physically. Over time the cursed dragonborn would grow tremendously in size and also mutate many features. Some grew horns, others grew wings. This gave rise to the numerous types of Dragons that now exist. This sickness wiped out most of the Dragonborn forces and so in reaction the Couatl sacrificed most of their kind to defeat the Rakshasa Rajahs. Those few that remained lived in hiding with the Dragonborn survivors. They worked together to undo the curse upon the gigantic Dragons, and eventually succeeded. While they could cure the mind, they were having much more difficulty in curing the physical abberations. The dragons decided against changing back to their Dragonborn appearances, and so they wiped out the secret labs. Over the thousands years since, the small dragons would be called the Dragonborn while the gigantic ones would retain the name Dragons. Eventually the origin of the species would be forgotten by all except possibly the Dragon Conclave who keep it in secret for fear that it would destroy Dragon society. Although some remnant of it does exist in Dragonborn legends that outline how their race was created. The Dragonborn were enslaved by their larger kin, and so it was for thousands of years. However when Tiamat rose to spread a corruption among the Dragons, what she did in actuality was reactivate the Rakshasa Rajah curse which lay dormant in all Dragons. The Dragonborn were able to once more deactivate the curse and save their kin, but they demanded a cost this time. After Tiamat was destroyed the Dragonborn/Dragon treaty became enforced. Per the treaty the Dragons were forced to live only on one continent. Argonessen. The Dragonborn would be able to expand over the rest of Eberron as they desired. However the Dragonborn also demanded they be allowed to live independently of the Dragons on Argonessen as well. This treaty was upheld for thousands of years. The Dragonborn forces outside of Argonessen were quite small. The largest of them were in Khorvaire and so most of the Dragonborn went to either Khorvaire or Argonessen (only those who didn't despite the Dragons ended up in Argonessen). Those that didn't retreat to either continent would die out within the next few hundred years. The Khorvairan Dragonborn empire never recovered and so the planned expansion across all of Eberron never took place. So is the Khorvairian population of Dragonborn hostile or indifferent to the dragons of Argonessen? and how do they feel about those dragonborn that stayed? In all my origin stories (I'm sure I'll end up making a couple more) I leave that undefined. In ancient times they definitely either liked the Dragons or hated them. However what their attitude is in modern times I'll leave up to the ECG and EPG. i assume it's been along time of course maybe during the Age of Monsters but that's just a wild guess. Yup. Plenty of time for the Dragonborn to forget their race's origin allowing the DM to reveal the true origin to players if they so desire. So as the timeline is not advancing, Argonessen is still remaining largely a land of mystery I'm wondering how much is revealed in Dragons of Eberron? More then Secrets of Xen'drik? Less? Anyway thanks for everyone's ideas. I'd definitely be interested in hearing more!
#8 rauric May 01, 2009 21:45:35	I believe James said that when he originally started writting Dragon Forge that Eberron was still on track go go for that two year jump... Two year jump. Sniff I wish they did not buckle to the whiners. Oh well, life goes on. ;)
#9 davethebrave371 May 02, 2009 14:47:17	Two year jump. Sniff I wish they did not buckle to the whiners. Oh well, life goes on. ;) Oh Rauric, the only ones still talking about it, much less whining about it, are the group that lost the war. ;)
#10 Gilo May 02, 2009 23:09:45	Oh Rauric, the only ones still talking about it, much less whining about it, are the group that lost the war. ;) As a Cyre sympathizer I kinda hoped they will move the setting's time line four years back ;) [Edit:] About Dragons and Dragonborn: I don't have a full working theory, I'm just thinking about the possibility that Dragons (perhaps a group like the Chamber) will look at the younger races gaining dragonmarks and fear that this shift in the Draconic Prophecy focus toward mortals merits a creation of a race (splinter race) which will be potentially more attuned with this new prophecy trend. [Edit2:] That means that Dragonborn race only exist for about 3300 years. In case Dragonborns already existed on Argonessen before that time (maybe because of a tactical need for humanoid soldiers during the Demon/Giant/Elf wars) there will still be a need to migrate them to Khorvaire (or Aerenal) so they can be closer to where the Draconic Prophecy 'action' is (so that the Dragons as a race can stay relevant and in focus with the prophecy).
#11 Hellcow May 03, 2009 6:26:19	Needless to say, the 4E Eberron books are already nailed down. I can't say exactly what approach we went with, but at least some of you should be happy with it. ;)
#12 lyran May 03, 2009 11:19:24	Needless to say, the 4E Eberron books are already nailed down. I can't say exactly what approach we went with, but at least some of you should be happy with it. ;) What ever you went with I'll be happy with it. ;)
#13 JohnLynch May 03, 2009 22:07:16	What ever you went with I'll be happy with it. ;) And if I'm not I'll change it :D This thread's mostly for fun. ;)
#14 Omen_of_Peace May 05, 2009 11:22:55	Either way, a Dragonborn/Dhakaani war would still be awesome. Ooh, very nice ! Just to turn the "cursed birth" version on its head: maybe it's the Dragons who cursed lesser fiends to progressively turn them into beings that resembled them. Whether the transformed fiends then switched sides or not is lost in the mists of time...