Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lux_aeterna May 22, 2010 7:35:35	I'm just starting up an Eberron campaign, that takes place in the last years of the Last War, where the players are joining the Blademarks of House Deneith.  In my campaign the Blademarks are a bit of a Foreign Legion, with some people signing up to escape thier past, while others have bought into the recruit posters and are signing up for adventure and glory.  Finally, the dragonmarked bearing the Mark of the Sentinal are almost all children of House Deneith, and are signing up because all children of House Denieth go through Basic Training and join the Blademarks as a rite of passage. Eventually the players will be in the 13th Company, a reknowned Blademark outfit doing a Peace-keeping tour between Breland and Droam. So, my question.  One of my players wants to be an elf and take 'Mark of Shadow'.  This doesn't fit very well with the premise of the campaign. If they were discovered I'd imagine the Blademark response would be to treat them as a spy. Is there any fiction or mechanic out there that would permit this safely?  I was thinking of creating a fiction that would let other Houses work directly for another House called a 'Dragonmarked Bond'.  This would simply be where say a House Cannith Artificer exchanged for a House Deneith Protector in a 'Exchange Officer' program to work directly for House Deneith.  While this could help out my player, I think it weakens the overall paranoia that I think exists between the Houses.  So I was thinking of making this somehow irrevocable.  Once the Cannith Artificer comes into the house, he/she must abide by the following rules: 1) Cannot romantically persue anyone dragonmarked in the joined house. 2) Swears a vow not to betray the secrets of original house 3) Swears a vow not to betray the sercrets of the joined house. The vow would most likely be magically enforced.  Obviously if this were common place, the houses would have a level of trust in the procedure. So what are your thoughts?
#2 Ogiwan May 22, 2010 7:55:52	Mmm, it could work. What class is the Elf, though? Deneith might have wanted a commando/light infantryman (ranger or rogue, I figure), or an "infiltration specialist" to be organic to their Blademark formations.
#3 lux_aeterna May 22, 2010 12:59:30	New and improved: If your sneaking into House Deneith Blademarks wearing anything other than a Mark of the Sentinel, you'll be treated as a spy. In my campaign the Last War is still raging so this is during wartime thus the penalty would be severe. If your carrying an aberrant Dragonmark, your almost certainly facing death at worst, and at least, forcible removal of the tattoo (remove the offending flesh, which few survive).  In this campaign as you'll be entrenched within House Deneith, at times in very close quarters with other soldiers, your secret will come out, which would disrupt the campaign, so I ask you not to go that route.   That said, there is one way that you could bear a dragonmark other than Mark of the Sentinel, and that is to be part of an 'officer exchange' program from another House. That means this would all be above board, with both Houses brokering the deal. The two houses, (loosing house and gaining house) would agree on duration. You may or may not have had a say in it. You may be part of the program as a punishment, expelled from your own house.  Sometimes this is done as a political move to strengthen bonds between houses. The single issue is that you would not be allowed back into your original house. You would be treated as an exile.  Consider that your going to have access to the inner circles and dark secrets of your new house.   You swear a Dragonmark Vow, under the strongest of magics that: 1. You'll never reveal to anyone the secrets of the loosing house; 2. You'll never reveal to your old house the secrets of the gaining house; 3. As per the Korth accord, your forbidden to have any romantic entanglements with anyone bearing a mark other than your own, so lovers bearing the mark of the gaining house are forbidden. In recorded history the Dragonmark Vow has only been broken twice, resulting in deaths so devastating, that no resurrection was possible. And in both cases, the secrets were kept safe, as the explosions took out the audience, thus there is a high level of confidence that secrets will remain secrets. These types of exchanges are far and few between, however, they are pragmatic and necessary.  For an elf of House Phiarlan to work in the inner circles of House Deneith, the Elf would most likely be employed as as recon scout working in the front lines.  A House Jurasco healer could be embedded with an Blademark infantry unit as their combat-medic.  A House Cannith Artificer could be engineering new weapons of war. During the Dragonmark Vow ceremony your tattooed on the face, with the gaining House mark, to identify to all your new allegiance. Despite the precautions, your at -2 to reaction rolls from your new House until you've proved yourself.   For players in my campaign going this route, the Dragonmark Vow ceremony would occur after successful completion of House Deneith basic training.
#4 Ogiwan May 22, 2010 17:41:58	OK, but again, we get back to organic capabilities of a military unit. Who has the best healers around? Jorasco. Who is best able to take care of the unit's animals (for pulling carts and the like, all the things necessary for logistics)? Vadalis. Armor repair, fortifications, and siege engineers? Probably can get a Cannith to cover those. Again, scouts? Thuranni/Phiarlan, or maybe Tharashk. Blademark companies command high prices not only because of the skill of Denith-trained mercs, but also because they can draw on support staff from the other Houses, just like multiple houses collaborated on projects like the Lightning Rail, Airships, or whatever. My point is that a Blademark unit may have Denith-trained sword-swingers, and Denith officers, but a lot of the support positions could, conceivably, be filled by specialists from the other Houses. I'm not sure if this elaborate Vow of yours is necessary. I wouldn't drop it on my players, for the simple reason that loyalty to a 'mark's House is the bread and butter of their existence. If you want to drop it on your players, then by all means do so. You're the DM. All I can say is that I wouldn't drop this on my players, because its already more-or-less implicit in the setting.
#5 lux_aeterna May 22, 2010 19:49:27	I hear what your saying, as there is a Jorasco Healing team, following the Combat units. There is Golanda Wagons to support messing of troops etc.  Unfortunatly the first thing I'm sending my players through is the last piece of Blademark Recruit training, affectionatly known as 'The Gauntlet'.   Now I have to make sure the fiction supports the players desires to wear other Marks, and my somewhat hard reqr to have them all go through the Gauntlet to become true Blademarks.  I suppose the Gauntlet could be for a reqr that House D has for _anyone_  service with House D, including other Houses members.  I'll have to ponder this a bit.
#6 superdeadsmurf May 22, 2010 23:24:27	I see absolutely no reason you would need this sort of "vow" for a 'marked elf to join the blademarks.  A) The lower level Deneith heirs and marked or unmarked functionaries have NO IDEA that House Phiarlan/Thuranni are spies.  They're those Illusionists, artists, musicians and dancers. B) There are lots (well it's rare, but everyone would know of a few) of 'marked people that have disagreements with, or are born without direct connection to their house (other than their bloodline) - many get (back) in with their house, others don't.  The recruiter bringing in the PC Elf will likely ask some questions, but a good recruit for a scout (etc) is a good recruit. C) You don't need to worry about (most) 'marked people wanting to "get it on" cross-marked - the stigma of possibly producing Aberrant marked children is really REALLY ingrained in anyone growing up within their house. D)  The Blademarks are just hired mercenaries. Simple as that.  They get lots of not-so-trustworthy recruits (ie: Hobgoblins up the wazoo)  - they don't trust any recruit until they've proven themselves.   So yeah, I think the Blademarks would welcome an Elf with inborn magic that enhanced his or her  hiding skills.  They'll keep an eye on them (higher ups will REALLY keep their eyes on him or her) until he or she proves him or herself.  But the Elf can never expect to get very high up in the ranks, just like any other non-human (or human proven from another 'marked bloodline) because that's just how Dragonmarked houses work.
#7 lux_aeterna May 23, 2010 5:57:27	I agree more or less.  Particularly with the idea that the recruiter is going to pick the best healer if they need healers, or best engineer if they need engineers.  Ok.. so when the recruiter asks 'do you have any scars, piercings or tatoos'  if they pipe up and say 'ya I got this here Mark of Making thing on my left leg' no problem, welcome to Blademarks.  They sign up. The guy will never make prestige class ranks in Deneith, but will be great in the low ranks. I'd argue though that when it comes to rising in the ranks,  or want to move over to Defenders Guild, or Sentinals Guild, where they are going to start being trusted with high level House Deneith secrets they may not be trusted.  Non marked can go high in Houses, but off-marked?  Now this would be when they could volunteer to make use of the Vow. If they were working close support from another House, there is a trust issue, and the vow could be a mechanic that is rarely used on only the most extreme circumstances. Say when they are selecting a Jurasco Healer to be the personal physician for the House Patriarch. I agree that most everyone is familier with the stigma surrounding inter-mark relationships and the Korth accord, so to re-enforce it in a vow is a bit redundant.  I'll pull that.
#8 Ogiwan May 23, 2010 10:50:50	Yeah, if they start making it up high into the Deneith power structure, that's when I can see them requiring to take a Vow. I doubt sergeants would even need to worry about it, but if you want, you could have a regimental-level CSM (Command Sergeant Major) take the Vow. Concerning officers, I can't see LTs or Captains needing a Vow; the vast majority of low-grade officers will, of course, be Deneith heirs, and thus wouldn't need a Vow. If someone from out-of-House manages to snag a brigade/regiment command, then I could see a Vow being necessary. The 'marks from outside the House, I think, would generally be the same sort of thing. Enlisted, sergeants, or low-grade officers, no need to worry about Vows. But, if they get command of a large specialist formation, then I can see a Vow being important, because they would have some sort of divided loyalties; a Jorasco heir who gets put in command of a Blademark medical battalion, or similar sized formation or whatnot, has divided loyalties. They are important as hell to Deneith, but they're also important to Jorasco. Meh. Rambling. Hopefully I made my point. Nevertheless, if your PCs rise to a sufficient rank, then the Vow could be also an implement of plot, and you can use it to drive home how important they are to Deneith, and the level of trust Deneith is putting in them. But, that would probably necessitate them commanding the Company, or at least being an Assistant Chief of Staff.
#9 Hellcow May 23, 2010 17:24:18	Just as a side point, the Twelve exists precisely to facilitate cooperation between the houses - to enable them to accomplish things together that they could not do apart. Many of the greatest acheivements of the Houses are actually the result of such coordination. Airships require the work of Cannith and Lyrandar in addition to Zilargo. The Kundarak vault system was developed with the assistance of House Orien (which is why the warding house has a potent tool based around teleportation). Many of the dragonmarked focus items that only benefit specific houses are nonetheless produced by House Cannith. There is conflict between SPECIFIC houses. Lyrandar and Orien. Deneith and Tharashk. Phiarlan and Thuranni. Cannith and Cannith. But the Twelve exists to help the houses work together and to strengthen their power overall. Meanwhile, looking specifically to Phiarlan. As noted, not everyone equates Phiarlan with spies... among other reasons, because not every Phiarlan IS a spy. The bulk of the daily business of the house IS entertainment. The master acrobat, virtuoso tenor, and shadow-sculpting artist are all just what they appear to be. They aren't ALL spies and thieves. And among other things, Joe the Farmer can't hire Phiarlan to spy on someone. You want that, get a Tharashk inquisitive. Phiarlan sells its services to people in power - by the time you know who to talk to in order to hire a spy, you're someone. As people move higher up in the ranks, sure, they'll find out about the real businesses of the houses. But again, here you have the question of conflict of interest. Phiarlan specializes in gathering and selling intelligence. And trust me, if they want to know what you're up to, they probably already do. That elf in your troop isn't the thing you need to worry about - it's the elf you DON'T see. It's the Serpentine Mirror. And so on. You could, if you choose, alienate the house by refusing to work with its people. At which point, they may cut you off as a potential customer, at which point they are STILL spying on you but you can't actually hire them when you need them. Or you can form a strong relationship... one strong enough that it's not in their interests to sell your secrets to someone else, because the situation as it stands is of benefit to them. Furthermore, bear in mind that each house is made up of individuals - and individual relationships can be very important. Merrix d'Cannith might not trust his most private secrets to just ANY Phiarlan. But it may be that he has a long friendship with Elvinor Ellorenthi d'Phiarlan, and trusts HER with his secrets - again, because she likes him as a friend and client, and won't simply spill his beans to Boranel for a handful of crowns. But overall, this is the point of the Twelve. The council of the Twelve are the public faces of their houses. The Deneith commander could come to the Phiarlan representative and say "This elf - you'll vouch for him?" If the elf betrays that trust, he may face censure from his own house for the embarassment. In any case, as said above, each house has its own specialties. Jorasco will give you the best healers. Cannith has your battle artificers. Orien or Tharashk will give you good scouts, while Thuranni or Phiarlan will produce your spies and assassins. Each house DOES maintain its own private forces for matters of absolute internal security - groups like the Kundarak Ghorad'din - and the secrets of such an order will be kept entirely within the house. I can't imagine Deneith ever allowing anyone except an heir of the house to serve as a Sentinel Marshal. The Blademarks, on the other hand, are a broader force. Looking to Sharn: City of Towers, of the 451 Blademarks in Sharn, only 49 are heirs of House Deneith. Now, before they are allowed to wear the symbol of the Blademarks, they have to prove their competance, that they can be trusted, that they can work within the disciplines structure of the order. So the shadow-marked elf would have to prove all of those things. He'd have to earn trust, like any other out-of-house soldier. He'd have to show that he wasn't flighty and that he wouldn't rebel against the discipline. But I don't see a reason why an heir of another house couldn't serve in the Blademark. Now, if the point is that this unit IS an elite force like the Sentinel Marshals or Ghorad'din, that's different. If I decided that the campaign was going to be all Sentinel Marshals and the player wanted to be Phiarlan, I'd give him the option of either coming up with a character concept that works within the campaign I plan to run, or potentially have him be a deep-cover mole (magically altered via long-term disguise to conceal his race) with the risk that exposure will embarass his house and possible be fatal for him. That's assuming I'm dead-set on this being all-Sentinel-Marshals. Otherwise, I'd just make the unit less restrictive - a multi-house unit drawing on the strengths of ALL of the houses, operating under the auspices of the Twelve. Deneith may run the operation as officers and commanders, because that's what THEY are good at - but the unit serves the interests of all houses. And yes, this is technically in violation of the Korth Edicts, but this would be an example of the Twelve testing the strength and resolve of the other nations... and potentially having this unit do favors for other nations to weaken that resolve. But as always, do what makes sense for your game!
#10 Hellcow May 23, 2010 17:34:58	The Blademarks are just hired mercenaries. Simple as that.  They get lots of not-so-trustworthy recruits (ie: Hobgoblins up the wazoo)  - they don't trust any recruit until they've proven themselves. Just as a side note, the Ghaal'dar hobgoblins and Valenar who served as mercenaries in the war were, by and large, NOT actually Blademarks. Their services were brokered through the guild, and they had Deneith advisors who worked to evaulate their skills and value, but they weren't actually mixed into the rank and file of the Blademark forces and given the Blademark badge. You certainly could have hobgoblins and Valenar serving in the Blademark, but if that's the case they would be broken out of their cultural units and undergo training with other Blademark recruits, and not allowed to wear the Watchful Eye until they are deemed trustworthy. A Phiarlan elf would be treated the same way. So yes, the Blademarks recruit people from outside the house. All of them are potential security risks and will have to earn trust. I'm just saying that I don't know that they get hobgoblins up the WAZOO, because most Ghaal'dar probably prefer to serve in their own units and simply want to broker the services of those units through Deneith... which is a different sort of operation (and one in which the buyer should know that Deneith has less direct control).
#11 Hellcow May 23, 2010 17:46:32	If they were working close support from another House, there is a trust issue, and the vow could be a mechanic that is rarely used on only the most extreme circumstances. Say when they are selecting a Jurasco Healer to be the personal physician for the House Patriarch. This is certainly the sort of thing that would be a special circumstance. On the other hand, there's no bad blood between Deneith and Jorasco, and being the personal position to the House Patriarch is a position of great trust and influence. Jorasco COULD poison the Patriarch - but if the patriarch dies under suspicious circumstances under Jorasco's watch, that's going to be a tremendous political blow to the house. I'm just saying that today, in choosing a physician for a CEO or, say, the president, we don't generally strap an explosive collar around the doctor's neck. We establish trust based on the reputation of the doctor, through security checks, through the unspoken threat that being the Doctor who lets the President die would likely be the end of your career, if not your life. So again, I'd be more inclined to see the Deneith patriarch going to the Jorasco's voice on the Twelve and saying "I want the best you have as my personal physician. Don't let me down."... without the need for magical oaths. Now, if there was any level of animoisty between the two houses, or any sort of direct competition between them - a Tharashk agent somehow rising to power in Deneith, a Lyrandar serving in a Orien business - then I would expect more extraordinary measures to be taken, because there's a reason for that level of distruct. But Jorasco, Sivis, Kundarak and others all work hard to maintain their neutrality so that all houses CAN trust their services. The Orien patriarch believes he can send a confidential message through a Sivis stone because they have worked for a thousand years to establish that reputation for absolutely unimpeachable neutrality - and if they betrayed him now, the damage to their house would be severe.
#12 lux_aeterna May 25, 2010 14:58:10	Thanks for the detailed responses. I am taking a more open approach to Blademarks working with the other Houses.  The Dragonmark Vow will be relegated to where trust between Houses doesn`t exist or other unique circumstance.  I particulary love the insight into the Twelve, which until now, I`d never really appreciated.  That`s a marvelous politicaly charged organization which I think I`m going to have a lot of fun with.  thanks again.