"There will be no new dragonmarked houses introduced, with one exception. As part of making the dragonmarked houses more accessible, the race restrictions are being lessened if not outright removed."
I'm interested in peoples thoughts as to how this would work. (Please, please save the "this is crap, what where the idiot designers thinking" posts for another thread).
I can see two ways. One, the houses stay divided along racial lines but now have some member with other marks the the original founding marks or Two, the houses stay focused on a particular mark and now allow other races to join them.
I'm also looking for peoples thoughts on a possible story explanation for the marks appearing on any race. I would think it would have to be more then an accident of birth since they are not advancing the timeline. Could the aberrant marks have something to do with this? Maybe House Tarkanan (sp?) tried some way to make all marks aberrant and while it failed it caused marks to start appearing on any race (yeah I know that's weak but I'm really at a loss for an explanation).
When developping the Dragonmark Powers they might have restricted the Aberrant Mark powers to fewer choices. My guess, is that Aberrant Marks could now appear on any race. In 3.5 it was impossible to see a changeling or a gnoll with an Aberrant Mark. Now in 4E Aberrant Marks might spread to these ''monstrous humanoid'' races. Which could also be the explanation for the race restriction removed, now giving the Tiefling, Dragonborn, Shifter and Warforged the possibility to develop Aberrant Marks.
As for the race restriction being lessened, it might only be for True Dragonmarks,a nd only for PCs and a few unique NPCs. However, they haven't talked about removing the family by blood and mariage restrictions. Which could suggest that members of the same d'House will remain mainly of the same race. However, seing how dragonmarked are scared of mixing blood, mariage with another race could also be tabooed.
Rekko
As I read, I understand that there won't be new Dragonmarked Houses. However, there's House Tarkanan and House Vol that never really got a whole lot of attention. My bet is that they are going to develop House Tarkanan, which is, in my opinion, a great idea. And by doing so, they'll leave House Vol and the Mark of Death a mystery.
When developping the Dragonmark Powers they might have restricted the Aberrant Mark powers to fewer choices. My guess, is that Aberrant Marks could now appear on any race. In 3.5 it was impossible to see a changeling or a gnoll with an Aberrant Mark. Now in 4E Aberrant Marks might spread to these ''monstrous humanoid'' races. Which could also be the explanation for the race restriction removed, now giving the Tiefling, Dragonborn, Shifter and Warforged the possibility to develop Aberrant Marks.
As for the race restriction being lessened, it might only be for True Dragonmarks,a nd only for PCs and a few unique NPCs. However, they haven't talked about removing the family by blood and mariage restrictions. Which could suggest that members of the same d'House will remain mainly of the same race. However, seing how dragonmarked are scared of mixing blood, mariage with another race could also be tabooed.
Rekko
Hmmm... That could work while still keeping the integrity/racial restrictions of the existing houses. I never thought of it was a way to have Dragonborn, Tiefling, et al... with marks.
I also think the Aberrant marks with appear on anyone now.
Hmmm... That could work while still keeping the integrity/racial restrictions of the existing houses. I never thought of it was a way to have Dragonborn, Tiefling, et al... with marks.
well, to find an explanation, put yourself in the designers mind. They created a new system with different core material. Back in 3.5 the dragonmarked raecs were restricted to those of the players handbook, to give players more options. I bet that last thing, giving players more options hasn't gone away with the new edition. So, in my opinion, the designers needed to change the dragonmark rules to allow any player to have them.
Letting a Half-Orc bear the Mark of Storm is freaking out of story and out of setting. It would mean huge changes to the setting and a great load of extra work they don't need. So I guess that House Lyrandar is still pretty much made up of Half-Elves. However, PCs are exceptions to the rule. So as a DM and as a designer I don't mind letting one Half-Orc carry the Mark of Storm, or one Dragonborn carry the Mark of Sentinel, or one Warforged carry an Aberrant Mark. However, this might not be the change they are after, it is a huge change after all to allow a Half-Orc to carry the Mark of Storm.
An easy change, would be to make the Aberrant Mark more accessible, by letting any race allowed to carry it. This gives more importance to the Aberrant Mark and thus more importance to House Tarkanan. Which is why I think that the *new* House will be House Tarkanan.
Rekko
Rekko
I think the lack in restriction is on the Houses themselves not the rules for the marks...
It could be Tarkanan.
It could be Cannith.
It could be Death/Vol.
It could also be one of the clans that make up Tharask.
Though, given these options, I doubt it is either of the last two. Vol for being too big of a turn, and Tharask for being too inconsequential in the grand scheme. So I'll bet on Tarkanan.
I think the lack in restriction is on the Houses themselves not the rules for the marks...
True enough, the wording does lend itself to that idea.
On the other hand, if this means open season for true marks on any race...
i posted this in the other thread that talked about the seminar...
I think the lack in restriction is on the Houses themselves not the rules for the marks...
I posted a similar idea. This makes sense, especially when you think of Deinith. They are mercenaries. You'll still have the elite (the people with marks - which remain tied to a particular race) but lots of races.
If the "new house" is Tarkanan, and they're opening up aberrant marks to any race, I wouldn't have much of a problem with that.
On the other hand, if this means open season for true marks on any race...
I have no problem with aberrant marks being for any race, which concerning the now core races of dragonborn and teiflings, makes a great deal of sense. But the the known marks, should be left with racial requirements.
I can also see a 'house' being developed for aberrant marks. I'll be honest I don't know much about house Tarkanan. Which book(s) are they mentioned in?
I can also see a 'house' being developed for aberrant marks. I'll be honest I don't know much about house Tarkanan. Which book(s) are they mentioned in?
There is a good amount in the Sharn book and of course the Dragonmark book
I have no problem with aberrant marks being for any race, which concerning the now core races of dragonborn and teiflings, makes a great deal of sense. But the the known marks, should be left with racial requirements.
The problem with this being that most aberrant marks are caused when two members of different houses have a child. So a human from Cannith and an Elf from Phiarlin would have a half-elf with an Aberrant Mark. So this doesn't explain Tiefling and Warforged having them.
The problem with this being that most aberrant marks are caused when two members of different houses have a child. So a human from Cannith and an Elf from Phiarlin would have a half-elf with an Aberrant Mark. So this doesn't explain Tiefling and Warforged having them.
Well, here's a simple change as to why it can be explained:
Dragonmarks are meant to be a physical representation of the draconic prophecy yes? Houses, with their unified marks, have a specific destiny in the prophecy, while individuals may have a part in the prophecy at one time or another, it is the house as a whole that is more important to the prophecy, more so than an individual.
An aberrant mark shows up when a person has a specific destiny that is not intertwined or linked to one of the houses. So, mixed houses make aberrant marks, they can also show up on others. No body really knows why, except maybe certain dragons who are well versed in the prophecy.
Now, that's just something I came up with on the fly, so some of it may not work. But, as to marks, I never read that they were 100% guaranteed through hereditary passing. Two dragonmarked house members could have 5 children, only one of which bears a mark. Is this not the case?
For example, when the elves left Xen'drik, a group of bards helped the many different tribes to gather and organise themselves. These bards weren't from the same family bloodline, in fact there were five bloodlines that was granted the Mark of Shadow. These bards were called the Phiarlans by the Aereni, and these five families united under that name, until one family, the Thuranni, decided to murder one line and go on there own.
There might be some elves in Khorvaire or even on Aerenal that have a distant link to one of the members of the Phiarlan/Thuranni Houses. If he manifest a Mark of Shadow, all that it mean is that he is a distant lost relative, but a true heir of his powers, since even the Prophecy reckognized he had the talent that once granted the Houses their first Marks of Shadow.
That is how I rule, in 3.5 and 4E, the race and family restrictions for possessing true dragonmarks.
As for Aberrant Marks, the Prophecy chosed to mark them to enhance whatever talent they have. Back in 3.5 I ruled that it was only accessible to the dragonmarked races (human, elf, half-orc, half-elf, gnome, dwarf, halfling) which were the core races. Now that in 4E the core races have changed, and for the fact that I want to give my players the option to manifest a dragonmark even if they chose a Tiefling or a Dragonborn, I changed my ruling for Aberrant Marks. Now, any race appearing in a Player's Handbook, and possibly Player's Guide to FR and Eberron, can now manifest a Aberrant Mark. I might add Orcs, Goblinoids and the Gnolls to the list even if they don't make it to a PHB.
Rekko
I was actually at the seminar, the answers reposted here are very brief, Keith, James, Jeremy, and Stephen often talked at length about subject, often having to dance around things they weren't allowed to say.
For instance the running joke of the seminar became "Boy that thing on the cover of the Player's Handbook 2 looks an awful lot like a shifter doesn't it?" They never actually said "The shifter is in PHB2" but they refered to that "Very shifter looking character" all the time.
As to the dragonmarks, yes they said that other races and non Dragonmark races would be able to gain dragonmarks. HOWEVER! This was refered back to the fact that in 4th edition Eberron the Prophecy would have its importance really punched up, that the prophecy is written on the skin of mortal races is really really important.
There are still only the 13 houses (14 if you cound House Tarkanan), there will not be a teifling house or a dragonborn house. They specifically said that non 'dragonmarked' races developing dragonmarks was NOT NORMAL, its being marked by the prophecy directly, and personally. Mind you this is not unprecidented, the Cataclysm Mage and the adventure Eyes of the Lich Queen allowed non-dragonmarked races to develop dragonmarks. A dragonborn with a mark is a unique (not to say the dragonmark is unique, rather the event of the dragonborn developing a mark) pretty much PC or plot device only event. They will not be founding new houses or be expecting their children to develop marks THEY PERSONALLY have been marked by the prophecy.
Also while we don't know the mechanics fo the new Dragonmarks, the pannalists were extremely tight lipped about the new mechanics beyond saying it was "Awesome", James said awesome a lot actually. They did mention there will be Epic Destinies related to Dragonmarks and The Prophecy.
-Thought I would share this post.
18DELTA ;)
Unless they already have. Come to think of it, I haven't heard from Edymnion in a while...
More to the point, doesn't the setting by its very nature discourage absolutism in anything? I mean, there's even a continent that changes its geography whenever it feels like it... a little thing like magic tattoos spontaneously manifesting on people who normally don't have them should be simple by comparison.
Has Eberron been around long enough to have purists???
Yep. It's attachment to D&D means attachment to a large fanbase, which means it'll get a lot of fans with a tendency to be purists about things.
(I'm not a die-hard purist, though a few sourcebook paragraphs and novels have kind of annoyed me.)
While it's not quite what I expected, I'll wait and see how it turns out.
Well, here's a simple change as to why it can be explained:
Dragonmarks are meant to be a physical representation of the draconic prophecy yes? Houses, with their unified marks, have a specific destiny in the prophecy, while individuals may have a part in the prophecy at one time or another, it is the house as a whole that is more important to the prophecy, more so than an individual.
An aberrant mark shows up when a person has a specific destiny that is not intertwined or linked to one of the houses. So, mixed houses make aberrant marks, they can also show up on others. No body really knows why, except maybe certain dragons who are well versed in the prophecy.
Now, that's just something I came up with on the fly, so some of it may not work. But, as to marks, I never read that they were 100% guaranteed through hereditary passing. Two dragonmarked house members could have 5 children, only one of which bears a mark. Is this not the case?
Your reasoning regarding the relationship between the Prophecy and the aberrant dragonmarks is good. My only comment is that it applies to the regular dragonmarks as well. ALL dragonmark-carriers have been chosen in some manner by the Prophecy (although I am curious whether the standard and aberrant dragonmarks result from the same Prophecy or part thereof). Just because the Prophecy tends to manifest the same mark in multiple people related by blood does not mean that marks have somehow become genetic. ALL dragonmarks are still magic deriving from the Prophecy, and subject to whatever strange rules govern that mysterious force. In game, if the Prophecy wants to manifest in an unrelated person, genetics is not going to stop it from happening. Out of game, unusual dragonmark manifestations among the PCs make for great plot devices for DMs to use.