I totally agree with opening the 'marks to everyone (as PCs) but I want them to feel more special when a marked race has them. As I had been assuming the racial prereq was going to survive to 4E, I had mocked up a least mark of scribing for one of my PCs, which let him use his ghost sound racial power at-will. (and gave access to rituals too) and this went over very well. Now I'm going to update him to the official mark, he'll lose his favourite manuever. That's not good, not only that I want to encourage the Dragonmarked races in my games to take the Marks. Right now I have a blooded Phiarlan Illusionist wizard, but he's not marked. The mark does nothing for him right now.
I decided last night to add some house rules, "bonuses" for the correct race if they take a mark. They need to be minor things, and preferably play off the racial abilities of the race.
Here's what I came up with.
Mark of Handling - Special: If you are Human you also get a +2 Feat bonus to Nature checks.
Mark of Healing - Special: If you are Halfling you can also use your Second Chance racial power to re-roll any number of dice rolled when using a power with a healing keyword. Use the second rolls even if they are lower. (For example with a healing word that heals a healing surge value + 2d6, you may re-roll one or both of the d6s)
Mark of Making - Special: If you are Human you may also pay 5% less on the Enchant Magic Item ritual to create new magic items. This cost reduction does not stack with any other ritual cost reductions.
Mark of Passage - Special: If you are Human you also get a +1 feat bonus to your speed.
Mark of Scribing - Special: If you are a Gnome you also can use your Ghost Sound Racial Power at-will as a Minor Action.
Mark of Sentinel - Special: If you are Human you also may, as a minor action once an encounter, lose the benefit of your Human defense bonuses (+1 to Reflex, Will and Fortitude) and grant those bonuses to an adjacent ally until the end of your next turn.
Mark of Shadow - Special: If you are an Elf you may also use your Elven curacy racial power to reroll stealth checks. Use the second result even if it is lower.
Mark of Storm - Special: If you are a Half-Elf you may also add the thunder or lightning keyword to the power granted by your Dilettante racial feature.
Mark of Warding - Special: If you are a Dwarf you also may grant your Stand Your Ground racial ability to an adjacent ally once per encounter as an immediate interrupt if effect causes them to undergo forced movement or knocked prone.
I couldn't figure out anything for: Mark of Hospitality, Mark of Detection or Mark of Finding.
I know I want the mark of finding to do something different (but related) if you're human or if you're half-orc. I couldn't figure out anything for Detection or Hospitality at all.
I don't like my Mark of Shadow power at all, because it's not good for an elf wizard (nor is the mark really, until you can get a bunch of invisibility powers)
I also came up with the aberrant mark extras:
Aberrant Mark of Contagion - Special: If you are an Elf, Half-Elf, Human, Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling or Half-Orc you also get a +1 to saving throws against disease.
Aberrant Mark of Madness - Special: If you are an Elf, Half-Elf, Human, Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling or Half-Orc you also get +1 Will Defense against Psychic attacks.
Aberrant Mark of Terror - Special: If you are an Elf, Half-Elf, Human, Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling or Half-Orc you also get +1 to saving throws to end conditions from fear attacks.
What do people think? Have suggestions? Anything ridiculously overpowered?
All Dragonmark feats have a racial prerequisite.
All rituals associated with a Dragonmark may be cast without components and with a casting time of one minute by spending a healing surge. Each ritual may be cast in this manner once per day. A PC may not cast rituals above his level.
Mark of Handling, extra rituals: Animal Friendship (PHB2), Beast Growth (Arcane Power).
Mark of Hospitality, extra rituals: Unseen Servant (Arcane Power).
Mark of Scribing, associated rituals: Arcane Mark (FR Player’s Guide), Comprehend Languages (PHB), Sending (PHB).
Mark of Storm, extra rituals: Control Weather (PHB2).
What do you do when a Mark of Making PC starts to become a daily Magic Item factory?
Something in line with the other ones?
For each tier, a dragonmarked of the correct race gets a +2 bonus to casting the ritual he/she gets from her mark.
Any dragonmarked can reduce the component cost of a ritual from their dragonmark by 5-10%, by using a healing surge. Simulating the dragonmarked books where it would get brighter when you were using it.
I did the math on it, and it works out well.
Here's an example...Let's say that there's a 20% markup on all magical weapons in the world that are bought from merchants.
Your typical Crafter Wizard will try to sell you a +1 Flaming Longsword for 1218 GP. (15 for the sword + 1000 for the enchant + 20% markup)
A Cannith Mark of Making Artificer Making the same sword would sell it for 1098 GP and gain the same % profit. (15 for the sword + 900 for the enchant less 10% + 20% markup) If he sells it for 1118, he gets the same amount of GP profit and is still 100 GP cheaper than the crafter wizard.
(As a side note here, you don't pay for the mundane weapon when buying magic weapons anymore. A level 5 magic dagger costs the same as a level 5 magic greatsword)
Well...that's correct according to character builder...
However the Enchant Magic Item ritual itself says that you touch a mundane item and turn it into a magical item. That taken into account would mean that one would need to buy mundane form of said magical item...
Well...that's correct according to character builder...
However the Enchant Magic Item ritual itself says that you touch a mundane item and turn it into a magical item. That taken into account would mean that one would need to buy mundane form of said magical item...
So an extra 5 gold, then? Does that amount really matter?
And I don't see the need to pile more goodies onto the Dragonmark feats just for being the 'correct' race. They're plenty good enough as it stands, and what you're trying to do is to enforce fluff restrictions via mechanics. That's as bad as LG-only paladins, which was discarded from the game years ago.
Enforcing would be to go back to 3.5 Dragonmarks which were restricted by race. What's happening here is that Superdeadsmurf is encouraging correct fluff.
Personally, I plan on using the ritual discount in my games because in my games one does not simply take a Dragonmark. It comes with a lot of social baggage, even more so if you're out of race.
I was offering the discount idea as an alternative to Alisair_Longreach's initial idea of allowing PCs to cast a ritual for free every day, as that would create an immense imbalance for Mark of Making PCs.
And also, to your question about the 5 extra GP...It may not matter to House Cannith, but it would matter to a Crafter Wizard trying to compete with House Cannith.
Actually, Stogoe, what Superdeadsmurf is attempting to do is to give bonuses for being the correct race as opposed to mechanically enforcing any amount of fluff, as you claimed given your example of the Paladin.
Enforcing would be to go back to 3.5 Dragonmarks which were restricted by race. What's happening here is that Superdeadsmurf is encouraging correct fluff.
How can you not see that these are exactly the same thing? Between a choice of X, and X+5, who is ever going to choose X? Be honest.
I prefer non-correct dragonmarks, personally, because nothing seems to freak you people out more.
How can you not see that these are exactly the same thing? Between a choice of X, and X+5, who is ever going to choose X? Be honest.
to be honest the first character I make for my 4e eberron game is a Mark of Making Warforged. Yes I know its not original but I fell in love with the character and now we PCs can make it. Thanks for the great story and setting Keith
-Nerp
How can you not see that these are exactly the same thing? Between a choice of X, and X+5, who is ever going to choose X? Be honest.
I prefer non-correct dragonmarks, personally, because nothing seems to freak you people out more.
It's not so much that they're exactly the same thing
Paladins, for example, are X (LG Paladin) vs X-5 (Paladin that fell).
Dragon Marks in this example are X (Non matching race) vs X+5 (Matching Race Dragonmark)
Is the end result the same? Yes, the one that follows what we think they should follow is 5 greater than the non-standard. But the methods are different. In psychology we refer to these two methods as Punishment and Reward.
The differences are subtle, but as I recall, Punishment alters behavior quickly, but the change does not last long, while Reward takes longer to set in, but lasts far longer.
And to be honest, I look at more than just the mechanical effects when Dragonmarks are concerned. I personally would not choose Dragonmarks outside of the original races unless I had an incredibly good reason to. Even if there was a rule like "Members of the Dragonmarked Races who choose their proper Dragonmark lose access to their Racial Encounter power (Or Equivalent there of) when they take a Dragonmark." I would still be writing up a House Lyrandar Half-Elf Swordmage with the Mark of Storm, because I think that Storm Sentries are a very cool character concept.
Displaying your mark isn't automatically going to signal to everyone that you are touched by the Prophecy.
Those who are marked with the incorrect mark for a race are labeled(if they let the Mark show) as freaks. For those that know of the Prophecy, they understand that you are somehow touched by it. They avoid you to. The only attention you'll get from showing of your Mark is that the House associated with that mark is going to hunt you down. Now once they catch you, it all depends on what House you're dealing with. I could easily see Orien or Lyrandar putting you to work. Cannith isn't going to like it, neither is Sivis, Kundarak, not sure about Denieth. Vadalis seems like they wouldn't either, what with that rumored renegade out there in Karnath(I can't seem to find the source on that though...)
Incentives for being the approrate race for a Dragonmarked? You are normal.
Displaying your mark isn't automatically going to signal to everyone that you are touched by the Prophecy.
Those who are marked with the incorrect mark for a race are labeled(if they let the Mark show) as freaks. For those that know of the Prophecy, they understand that you are somehow touched by it. They avoid you to. The only attention you'll get from showing of your Mark is that the House associated with that mark is going to hunt you down. Now once they catch you, it all depends on what House you're dealing with. I could easily see Orien or Lyrandar putting you to work. Cannith isn't going to like it, neither is Sivis, Kundarak, not sure about Denieth. Vadalis seems like they wouldn't either, what with that rumored renegade out there in Karnath(I can't seem to find the source on that though...)
I think all of the houses would much rather kill you than put you to work. Orien and Lyrandar especially seem the types to simply kill you...I mean, you're a loose cannon AND you can control their special vehicles on which they make the majority of their money? If anything I can see Denieth offering you a position on a "Crack Mercenary Team" (ie, Suicide Squad), as being the best of the options. Vadalis, I suspect, would cut you apart to try to figure out why you manifest the mark.
I think all of the houses would much rather kill you than put you to work. Orien and Lyrandar especially seem the types to simply kill you...I mean, you're a loose cannon AND you can control their special vehicles on which they make the majority of their money? If anything I can see Denieth offering you a position on a "Crack Mercenary Team" (ie, Suicide Squad), as being the best of the options. Vadalis, I suspect, would cut you apart to try to figure out why you manifest the mark.
Fair enough. I don't think they'd outright kill though. I think it'd be more likely they employ you and then... WHOOPS! Industrial accident! Awww too bad that guy died....
-Nerp
Well...that's correct according to character builder...
However the Enchant Magic Item ritual itself says that you touch a mundane item and turn it into a magical item. That taken into account would mean that one would need to buy mundane form of said magical item...
Mundane costs are largely handwaved after early levels. For instance, the rules for making characters above 1st level say "take as many mundane items as you want". So really, in the long term, mundane item costs are so insignificant as to be merely flavor.
Mundane costs are largely handwaved after early levels. For instance, the rules for making characters above 1st level say "take as many mundane items as you want". So really, in the long term, mundane item costs are so insignificant as to be merely flavor.
It depends on how much book keeping the DM and players are willing to do really...
I mean...On the one hand, ignoring the mundane costs makes for a much more pulp action feeling game...
But on the other hand, i had a ton of fun playing a D20 Star Wars "Oregon Trail" game where me and two of my friends ran a freighter up and down the Corellian Run doing cargo and passenger shipping...That game was like 99% book keeping...
