Thoughts?
I'm in agreement to this. I'm still a bit too dodgy on the whole 4e set of checks and balances to work something like this from scratch, but "Star Pact" reworded seems as if it'd work along Quori lines.
Star Pact seems mor Xoriat, with all the tentacles and stuff. Not that some Quori don't have tentacles...
Star pact isn't primarily psychic damage though, which is what I'd expect from Quori. Also, Fey pact does the most messing with people's heads.
Star Pact seems mor Xoriat, with all the tentacles and stuff. Not that some Quori don't have tentacles...
True. That's the trouble with having two flavors of Unspeakable Lovecraftian Horror sharing the same world.
warlocks that get their power from the quori seems a bit frightening, but then wouldn't they be in turn controlled by the quori as well?
Well, you know what they say about Soviet Riedra...
(Of coarse with DM approval)
Keep in mind their might be a new pact for warlocks when the Eberron book comes out as well, but I understand that's a year away.
Therefore, a dream warlock, to be interesting, would do good instead of mean stuff. Think about that.
The thing is that the Dream pact, to be interesting, must be with the ancient good quori spirits that precede the Dreaming Dark.
Therefore, a dream warlock, to be interesting, would do good instead of mean stuff. Think about that.
Why must it? Heck why must it be with Quori at all? Dal Quor has plenty of other interesting inhabitants besides the Quori. You could make a pact with a dream-spirit, or an eidolon or even circumvent the Quori all together and establish a pact directly with Il'Lashtavar.
Dal Quor has plenty of other interesting inhabitants besides the Quori.
Quori's definition is actually a creature from Dal-Quor. It's like saying Earth has Earthlings or Mars has Martians.
Why must it? Heck why must it be with Quori at all? Dal Quor has plenty of other interesting inhabitants besides the Quori. You could make a pact with a dream-spirit, or an eidolon or even circumvent the Quori all together and establish a pact directly with Il'Lashtavar.
Because, my friend, the warlock pact is always made with a mysterious entity of old. Someone that's forgotten or really unaccesible.
The fey pact is made with ancient spirits of the feywild that no one sees anymore.
The star pact is made with completely alien entities that never really show up again and say "hey what's up?".
The infernal pact is not made with the devils of asmodeous but with a forgotten race of devils whose names where struck from the memory of all beings.
For this, I think that making a pact with Il-Lashtavar or any of it's followers would be like making a pact with Asmodeous. That doesn't work, it has to be (well, it should be) some ancient, forgotten race of Quori. The ones I best see fit are the lost good quoris that venerated the light that came before the Dreaming Dark.
Plus I think it's really interesting to have a warlock pact with good, yet mysterious and alien spirits.
I think you could create the pact around a theme of:
1) Provoking guilt to it's targets (visions of the suffering he's done)
2) Some weak form of psicokinesis
3) Many mental stuff, just like the fey pact.
For instance, the pact boon might let you slide a target 1 square or might unleash a felling of guilt in the allies of the victim so everyone on a burst 2 centerer on the cursed monster that dies take a -1 penalty to attack rolls for a round or better yet to defenses.
The at-will might be a thrown mindblade or a psyshic attack that deals 1d6+int and on a hit, if the target deals damage before the end of your next turn, then it gains vulnerability 5 all. The vulnerability ends at the end of your next turn.
Because, my friend, the warlock pact is always made with a mysterious entity of old. Someone that's forgotten or really unaccesible.
So suggesting to my warlock PC that his fey-pact is the group's Eladrin (wizard 1st level PC) was probably not a good idea (tho it will make the warlock keep the other PCs away from harm - since he can't have his power source die) ;).
So suggesting to my warlock PC that his fey-pact is the group's Eladrin (wizard 1st level PC) was probably not a good idea (tho it will make the warlock keep the other PCs away from harm - since he can't have his power source die) ;).
LOL. That's brilliant.
Just remember the old rule of thumb. If it works well for your group then all power to you.
Quori's definition is actually a creature from Dal-Quor. It's like saying Earth has Earthlings or Mars has Martians.
Read the dragon article on Dal'Quor. Quori are very specifically the progeny of the Dreaming Dark. The other inhabitants of Dal'Quor are never referred to as Quori.
For this, I think that making a pact with Il-Lashtavar or any of it's followers would be like making a pact with Asmodeous. That doesn't work, it has to be (well, it should be) some ancient, forgotten race of Quori. The ones I best see fit are the lost good quoris that venerated the light that came before the Dreaming Dark.
Why? In terms of raw power it's unlikely the two would be any different. Not to mention that whatever came before Il Lashtavar is pretty much gone short of a few docents. Could be interesting though; although word of Hellcow is that the alignment of whatever it was that came before Il'Lashtavar is deliberately vague.
Why? In terms of raw power it's unlikely the two would be any different.
Exactly, it´s just like asmodeous. And you never make a warlock pact with asmodeous.
Exactly, it´s just like asmodeous. And you never make a warlock pact with asmodeous.
Why not? If it fit the tone of the campaign you were doing to have warlocks quite literally make a deal with the devil...
Why not? If it fit the tone of the campaign you were doing to have warlocks quite literally make a deal with the devil...
I meant to say, that by RAW, you don't make pacts with asmodeous. He actually vanquished the devils that started that thing of the infernal pacts. By the rules as written, you don't make pacts with him.
Of course, a pact with asmodeous would be supercool but is really something that by default should be forbidden, because that's background just too drastical.
...because that's background just too drastical.
More importantly, there could be in-character ramifications, since you can actually visit Asmodeus. That's in general the reason for the "distanct pacts" - because if you attach too much baggage to it, it possibly changes characters, their concepts, and pushes bad DMs "screw" the player.
The Il-Lashtavar, however, is - despite being a living, still existing being - very distant. Sure, we have agents sent by the Dreaming Dark. We have Sarlona. We have evil Quori... but the Il-Lashtavar itself... is distant. Strange. Unfathomable. I daresay, it's alien and strange enough that it could be used for a pact.
Cheers, LT.
I meant to say, that by RAW, you don't make pacts with asmodeous. He actually vanquished the devils that started that thing of the infernal pacts. By the rules as written, you don't make pacts with him.
Of course, a pact with asmodeous would be supercool but is really something that by default should be forbidden, because that's background just too drastical.
A pact with Asmodeus makes you a Cleric.
A pact with Asmodeus makes you a Cleric.
4th edition has a disconnect of fluff from mechanics. If you have a pact with Asmodeus that gives you divine powers then that would be a cleric. If you have one that gives you arcane powers to destroy your enemies that would be a warlock in my opinion.
4th edition has a disconnect of fluff from mechanics. If you have a pact with Asmodeus that gives you divine powers then that would be a cleric. If you have one that gives you arcane powers to destroy your enemies that would be a warlock in my opinion.
Asmodeus is a god. Clerics pledge service to gods in exchange for power.
Asmodeus is a god. Clerics pledge service to gods in exchange for power.
But that doesn't mean they are the only ones. Not to mention Asmodeus is also a devil and warlocks make pacts with devils in exchange for power. Again, I am saying that the Fluff is disconnected from the crunch and can be done on a DM to DM basis. The Warlock stuff in particular was left open to interpretation and I think that was a great idea.
In my game, I will allow pacts with individual devils, including Asmodeus, if their story permits it. My point is that there is nothing in the crunch or the fluff that precludes this and it shouldn't be stated like there is. If you don't like the idea for your campaign then that's great too.
So suggesting to my warlock PC that his fey-pact is the group's Eladrin (wizard 1st level PC) was probably not a good idea (tho it will make the warlock keep the other PCs away from harm - since he can't have his power source die) .
Actually, if the two players in question are up for it, this idea could be really fun. The eladrin could be a sort of "field rep" for the higher-up fey with whom the warlock has made the pact. They could work up some really amusing flavor for how the powers work-- the warlock takes the action, but the eladrin does some "genie of the lamp" nose twitching. This could work especially well if the eladrin is a warlord or cleric, and able to provide the warlock with plenty of buffs and assistance.
For some reason, this whole set up also makes me think of Sam and Al in "Quantum Leap."
For some reason, this whole set up also makes me think of Sam and Al in "Quantum Leap."
Ziggy says there's a 93% chance you're here to kill that Rajah so... get on it. :P