Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 maceo00 Jun 04, 2015 17:01:40	I'm looking for some help to understand something I am re-reading.   In the 3.5 ECS book in the "Humans" entry p.12 it addresses humans leaving Sarlona and coming to the Lhazaar Principalities. Then it says "From there, they spread across Khorvaire, disrupting the placid elven empire of Aerenal and leaving ruined goblin kingdoms in their wake."   It's the disruption of the Aerenal empire I'm confused about. When did they interact and disrupt elves?
#2 Captain_Kobold Jun 06, 2015 16:47:07	Didn't the Aerenal elves use to have an outpost nation on khorvaire? It was part of the justification for the Valenar to invade and occupy their current land: they were only taking back that which was rightfully theirs.   I'd guess that a new race wrecking the neighbouring nations, changing the political and trade dynamics and suchlike would be disruptive to the elves. Some chose to integrate. Others chose not to.
#3 Tempest_Stormwind Jun 06, 2015 19:59:38	Captain_Kobold wrote:
#4 Beoric Jun 07, 2015 9:16:47	That doesn't work, that colony was pushed out of Khorvaire 7,000 years before Lhazaar.  I think the reference is a leftover from an ealier draft that was missed when they printed the errata.  I can't think of any other reference to humans of that period having contact with Aerenal, let alone disrupting it.    I don't imagine there was not much contact between the Aerinal and the Dhakaani after the Aerenal were pushed out of Khorvaire, so I don't see much potential for disruption that way, either.  If anything, problems suffered by the Dhakaani navy (or slave ships) would tend to stabilize things for the Aerenal.   EDIT:  Nuts, ninja'd by tempest.
#5 maceo00 Jun 07, 2015 6:57:44	Ok, thanks everyone.   Looking at when the Elves left what would become Valenar, (-10,000) the dragon war seems to have prevented what could have been a deadly interaction with the Daelkyr if the Elves would have remained in that area.
#6 Hellcow Jun 07, 2015 16:55:30	There's a few ways to read the quote in question.   One option is that the quote is a mistake. Among other things, the Aereni never held territory on Khorvaire: The Tairnadal did. And as noted it, they abandoned it and swore an oath not to return... and upheld that oath until the Cyrans invited them to return. So the first option is that the quote in question was a mistake.   The second option is that the quote isn't refering to direct contact. Change doesn't come easily to the Aereni. Their society is largely about looking back. They're more concerned with perfecting the traditions of the past then developing new things. The goblins had been in decline for thousands of years; it was a stable situation for Aerenal. The arrival of a new, aggressive civilization undoubtedly disrupted the "placid" balance.   The first large-scale contact between human and elf came in the wake of the extermination of the line of Vol, and is covered in places like this Dragonshard. With that said, I have no doubt that there was earlier contact that's simply never been documented in canon material. Malleon the Reaver and his associates knew nothing about the elves and would have had no reason NOT to try to seize Aerenal at some point in the course of their expansion. It would be bizarre if humans DIDN'T attack Aerenal at some point - but we're talking about "attacks" on the scale of viking raids that would have been quickly repelled, and humans would soon learn to leave Aerenal alone. Still, it's the sort of thing that would definitely "disrupt" normal operations.