There's been nothing like this for Eberron at all. In fact, I haven't seen any "Eberron is DEAD" threads at all (yet).
So, did WOTC do Eberron 4E right?
I'm asking as a person who got into D&D as 4E was released, and whose first exposure to Eberron is the 4E Eberron Player's Guide.
That means there are more rigid "diehard" fans that are resistant to change in FR than there are in EB. Plus after 20 years of being in the same century and adding lore baggage to the world designers felt it was time for a change. Some who were used to status quo stuff got upset when it was changed dramatically or even slightly.
You should have seen the designers of EB buckle to the few people that posted how they felt that a two year time jump was outrageous ( I now do not think it was necessary but it was not a horrible idea really).
So the "superfans" are out there trust me but the setting is new so new ideas and slight changes will not upset the applecart too much. Yet.
Seriously, who told whoever wrote the warforged writeup they could detatch their limbs? Honestly?
But I digress, is all good.
Can't wait to play my dragonmarked Talentan born Ghallanda barbarian! Now all I need is clawfoot mount stats! MWHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Edit* To Rauric, the official position is that Bill Slavicsek nixed the time jump, independent of FANBOY RAGE!!!! (the four exclamation points denote the proper amount of rage).
Oh there are a couple of sentences here and there to fill us with FANBOY RAGE!!!! but for the most part it is very good.
Indeed. I'm going to be honest in saying that I'm extremely displeased with the EPG. This isn't the thread for it, so I won't list the many reasons.
The setting itself, however, is still the great place we remember, from what I can tell.
When the 4E Realms were released last year, there were all kinds of threads declaring that this was the worst thing that could have happened, that the Realms were ruined forever, and so on.
There's been nothing like this for Eberron at all. In fact, I haven't seen any "Eberron is DEAD" threads at all (yet).
So, did WOTC do Eberron 4E right?
I'm asking as a person who got into D&D as 4E was released, and whose first exposure to Eberron is the 4E Eberron Player's Guide.
Short answer? Yes. They did it right.
Long answer? Eberron was designed from moment one as a sandbox for the Dungeon Master. The thing that I've always liked about Eberron is that when I write an adventure set in it, it feels like an adventure set in my world.
I've never got the impression that running things differently from what was published was somehow doing violence to the setting, the same way that tinkering with some other settings seems to be.
This doesn't seem to have changed in the new version, and it's the only thing that truly matters about Eberron when the dice hit the table.
—Siran Dunmorgan
...I think the 4e system BETTER matches the themes.
Indeed. Aside from the inclusion of Eladrin, the D&D game has morphed into something that just meshes better with the Eberron setting. The EPG is probably the most satisfying 4e purchase I've made next to the DMG1.
Short answer? Yes. They did it right.
Long answer? Eberron was designed from moment one as a sandbox for the Dungeon Master. The thing that I've always liked about Eberron is that when I write an adventure set in it, it feels like an adventure set in my world.
It's taken a little work to adapt Eberron to another system, so yeah. Unlike two of the others, it takes a little work to make Eberron work with other systems whole cloth (and yes, it's more fun!).
But whether they did it right, or did it wrong, its official now.
There is one thing I do find terribly worrying, and that is the paragon path which seems to suggest that the designers believe you can't ride any creature that doesn't have the mount keyword, which is thoroughly and abjectly dumb. However, since I will never play in the RPGA and therefore don't have to restrict myself to small-minded legalism in my RPG rules, I'm not that disturbed.
I still maintain the assertion I made last year that Pathfinder is a better system match for hard-bitten detective and espionage noir
Skill challenges have blown 3.5/3.75 out of the water for these facets in my campaign, and that includes a player of a character who was an Inquisitive in 3.5
Also I find the hit point totals of levels 4-6 in Pathfinder pack a relatively good balance between 'able to take a licking' and 'feeling really worked over in the morning.'
FANBOY RAGE!!!! (the four exclamation points denote the proper amount of rage).
Of course, because as those of us well versed in the works of DNA know; five exclamation marks is the sure sign of a diseased mind. ;)
The central themes have been maintain, the timeline has been unmolested, and a principal mechanical component (Dragonmarks) has been improved. I call it a win. The style of 4e is not all that different from the themes Eberron pushed in 3.5. Just I think the 4e system BETTER matches the themes.
I don't think so. I used to think something like this, but truly, it's up to the GM and the Players to make a world work the way its supposed to. A Roleplaying System only provides rules for you to play. Flavor is truly up to you and the GM.
I don't think so. I used to think something like this, but truly, it's up to the GM and the Players to make a world work the way its supposed to. A Roleplaying System only provides rules for you to play. Flavor is truly up to you and the GM.
That's why 4e is so perfect for pulp/noir like Eberron. It only adjucates combat, and it makes it much more pulp (check) and swashbuckly by making swashbuckly moves easier to do (I recall reading the massawyrm review on AICN before 4e was released referring to a playtest group he was in sliding under a table and kicking it from underneath to toss two crossbowmen standing atop it and having my jaw drop with how easy and fluid it was described), leaving you to elaborate without adjucation on matters of noir (check) rather than have 3.5's messy "ADJUCATE EVERYTHING" not account for the feel you want to evoke.
That's why 4e is so perfect for pulp/noir like Eberron. It only adjucates combat, and it makes it much more pulp (check) and swashbuckly by making swashbuckly moves easier to do (I recall reading the massawyrm review on AICN before 4e was released referring to a playtest group he was in sliding under a table and kicking it from underneath to toss two crossbowmen standing atop it and having my jaw drop with how easy and fluid it was described), leaving you to elaborate without adjucation on matters of noir (check) rather than have 3.5's messy "ADJUCATE EVERYTHING" not account for the feel you want to evoke.
Huh? Why are you selling 4th edition to me? I only said that a feel that works in a World like Eberron is up to the GM and the players to make. System doesn't have anything really to do with it. So, dude, calm down. Take a deep breath. Relax. I don't play Fourth Edition anyhow, I'm pretty much out of Wizards of the Coast's target market.
So, un-houseruled, 4e makes it easier for a group to do so. It's not impossible to play Eberron in World of Darkness, or Ninja Burger, and still have the right feel. I was talking about ease of inserting that feeling based on rules getting in the way.
My point is just that the noir feel of Eberron is easier to achieve when you either a) ignore adjucation in 3.5 that is useless and gets in the way, or b) don't houserule 4e at all.
So, un-houseruled, 4e makes it easier for a group to do so. It's not impossible to play Eberron in World of Darkness, or Ninja Burger, and still have the right feel. I was talking about ease of inserting that feeling based on rules getting in the way.
The noir and cliffhanger pulp from the 20's, 30's, and 40's? Maybe. But then again, I've been told that 4.0 is already obsolete.
Saying "some random person told me something and I believed it" has no bearing in the first place, and having that something be "it's obsolete" also has no bearing, since I also name-dropped Ninja Burger as a possible RPG system to play it in. You could literally play it in any system, Chaosium, Hero System, a diceless system, 1e AD&D, etc. I was saying out of any existing system that I have familiarity with, it fits best regardless of qualities like how old the system is. "Obsolete" in the RPG industry is just code for "I don't like it" since nothing could ever be truly obsolete as long as there are people playing it. It's not like people's imaginations needs a new graphics card to render their characters with every edition. Obsolete...sheesh.
"Obsolete" in the RPG industry is just code for "I don't like it" since nothing could ever be truly obsolete as long as there are people playing it.
Dave, just because someone told me that they are already working on 4.5, doesn't mean jack to you. While discussing this subject of D&D changing so quickly (on another board) means that D&D is no longer the yardstick by which you judge an RPG. Wizards is changing D&D so often, I just don't see the point of sticking with D&D anymore. D&D is leaving me in the lurch.
I was saying out of any existing system that I have familiarity with, it fits best regardless of qualities like how old the system is.
Alright, I accept that. Just that I am making the argument that everything depends on the GM. rules or no rules, it's up to the GM on how the game is run.
Calm down. Just calm down.
Never been anything but.
Dave, just because someone told me that they are already working on 4.5, doesn't mean jack to you. While discussing this subject of D&D changing so quickly means that D&D is no longer the yardstick by which you judge an RPG.
I don't know why it means jack to you, since it's not true. Whoever told you is convinced they know secrets that don't exist.