Now, Mr. Baker has already said that Eberron is not meant to correlate to the real world (and he's correct, of course), but there are certainly parallels between the game and the world that are interesting to me, if for no reason than guessing them and comparing notes. For example,
- The Church of the Silver Flame certainly has aspects that lead to common ground with the Catholic Church. The Templars and Cardinals, with an Pseudo-Inquisition event in the Silver Purge. That sort of thing.
- The khesh'dar of Darguun come off like goblinoid versions of the ninja (the taarka'khesh having a more martial bent, the shaarat'khesh being more mystical), with their penchant for secrecy and impartiality, and their dark clothing (according to the Legacy of Dhakaan novels). By extension, the Dhakaani Empire has a parallel of note between it and ancient Japan: The caste system. Each goblinoid has its own place, and the Tokugawa banned marriage between the classes, so there is an area that could correlate this culture with ours.
- Xen'drik has a resemblance to late 19th century/early 20th century Africa because the British and wealthy patrons often went to the continent on hunting trips. Expansion into Africa was also done around this time, and that's what's been going on in Xen'drik over the last several decades.
I'm looking for what you think each culture/country/city/people of Eberron shares with the real world, if any. Hopefully, my explanations can give you guys an idea of what I'm asking. By all means, share what you think. In fact, I welcome them all.
That said, I'm hoping that Madfox11 will stop in and start talking. I promise I won't BM&C.
Okay, while I've said one of my fave things about Eberron was the unknown qualities of the gods, another great aspect is the possible aspects of the campaign to the real world.
Now, Mr. Baker has already said that Eberron is not meant to correlate to the real world (and he's correct, of course), but there are certainly parallels between the game and the world that are interesting to me, if for no reason than guessing them and comparing notes. For example,
- The Church of the Silver Flame certainly has aspects that lead to common ground with the Catholic Church. The Templars and Cardinals, with an Pseudo-Inquisition event in the Silver Purge. That sort of thing.
- The khesh'dar of Darguun come off like goblinoid versions of the ninja (the taarka'khesh having a more martial bent, the shaarat'khesh being more mystical), with their penchant for secrecy and impartiality, and their dark clothing (according to the Legacy of Dhakaan novels). By extension, the Dhakaani Empire has a parallel of note between it and ancient Japan: The caste system. Each goblinoid has its own place, and the Tokugawa banned marriage between the classes, so there is an area that could correlate this culture with ours.
- Xen'drik has a resemblance to late 19th century/early 20th century Africa because the British and wealthy patrons often went to the continent on hunting trips. Expansion into Africa was also done around this time, and that's what's been going on in Xen'drik over the last several decades.
I'm looking for what you think each culture/country/city/people of Eberron shares with the real world, if any. Hopefully, my explanations can give you guys an idea of what I'm asking. By all means, share what you think. In fact, I welcome them all.
Aundair is France pre revolution.
Breland is like America
Karnath is very much like pre ww2 Germany post ww1
The Aerenal reminds me of like the Congo with a bit of Amazon thrown in. Very much a ancestor worship so like Africa but living in the decayed ruins and overgrown jungle is like south america to me.
Cyre I see like it used to be some of the eastern European countries, very much on the rise, but instead of the Russian communist block coming in a ruining their growth it was a much worst magical plauge.
I kinda would say that the Silver Flame is in my mind like if the Mormons were in the middle ages being that they are very hot or cold about things. I would say that the Host is more like the Catholics as they practice assimilation by conversion. Just think of the host gods as saints or angels and how cathlics worked in converting the south americans and native americans. Also with the dark six are like lucifer, azazil ect.
I agree about the Dhakaani empire.
For xen'drik i would throw a little of Australia in there too.
The Sarlonins i see like the American idealization of communism. It works and is a very functional but in two ways. Either through a totalitarian rule and fierce xenophobic control (quori) or through the people working together and with a true uncorrupted sense of community (kalishtar). Both seem alien to us but are kinda the two ways to go about it to make communism work.
The Valinar are very much in my mind like the Islamic countries in that they have a wonderful sense of pride and history. As well an appreciation for warfare and technology(magic).
The Principalities i see as the Caribbean in the high mariner days.
Qbarra i see like the Indonesian islands.
OK that's enough but those are some thoughts but not meant to be offensive.
I'll start by saying that I think that trying to draw such parallels is a bad idea.
That said, I'm hoping that Madfox11 will stop in and start talking. I promise I won't BM&C.
See other threads for extensive discussions on whether or not this is a good idea ;) Besides, I agree with many of your arguments about why you feel it is a bad idea, I just think that the good outweights the bad, but care must be taken.Note that Breland has much more in common with England then the USA. For one thing, it has a king and for another its parlaiment seems to have the same archaic structure as Englang had in the 16th century.
I would also compare Karnath to a mix of Prusia (English spelling?, regardless it is one of the more powerful German princedoms around the time of Napoleon) and Rusland. I would certainly not compare it to Germany as a whole, let alone to two decades between WWI and WWII.
The Aeranal reminds me a bit of the Aztecs and Mayans without the human sacrifice.
Similarly, Xen'drik seems to be an odd mix of middle America, Africa and Australia, or maybe, it is better to describe it as the Africa of pulp fiction since in RL there are actually not that many ancient stone ruins to be found in Africa.
Of course, your the about the Sovereign Host and their assimulation of local religious believes and mine about the Aeranal only highlights the fact that you need to be very careful with making paralels. On some levels they help, but when looked at in detail there are many many differences.
The Church of the Silver Flame certainly has aspects that lead to common ground with the Catholic Church. The Templars and Cardinals, with an Pseudo-Inquisition event in the Silver Purge.
I've posted my opinions on this at great length in the Cardinal Krozen thread, and I won't derail the thread with that here. The one thing I will point to is that a key aspect of the Purge is that it was an attempt to combat something which, at the time, was causing the deaths of thousands and which if unchecked could have destroyed Galifar itself. At the end it BECAME an inquisition, as the Aundairian converts hungry for vengeance sought to root out every last hidden lycanthrope. But in the begining it wasn't an inquisition at all; it was a straight-up war.
Again, not to derail the general discussion - the Purge is just something I feel is often misunderstood. I always expected people to see parallels to the Inquisition, so I'm not surprised by that. But it's also always supposed to have been an effort to show that the Silver Flame is the force that will take a stand when a supernatural threat endangers the common people, even when those people are not followers of the Flame. The Purge wasn't about rooting out heretics; it was about defending the innocent from harm, regardless of faith.
Now back to your previously scheduled thread.
The Church of the Silver Flame certainly has aspects that lead to common ground with the Catholic Church. The Templars and Cardinals, with an Pseudo-Inquisition event in the Silver Purge.
I've posted my opinions on this at great length in the Cardinal Krozen thread, and I won't derail the thread with that here. The one thing I will point to is that a key aspect of the Purge is that it was an attempt to combat something which, at the time, was causing the deaths of thousands and which if unchecked could have destroyed Galifar itself. At the end it BECAME an inquisition, as the Aundairian converts hungry for vengeance sought to root out every last hidden lycanthrope. But in the begining it wasn't an inquisition at all; it was a straight-up war.
Again, not to derail the general discussion - the Purge is just something I feel is often misunderstood. I always expected people to see parallels to the Inquisition, so I'm not surprised by that. But it's also always supposed to have been an effort to show that the Silver Flame is the force that will take a stand when a supernatural threat endangers the common people, even when those people are not followers of the Flame. The Purge wasn't about rooting out heretics; it was about defending the innocent from harm, regardless of faith.
Now back to your previously scheduled thread.
Don't worry, I don't consider it derailment. I find it interesting, frank, fun discussion.
As for the Purge, that's correct, the Purge combatted a REAL threat, rooting out lycans, some of which were legitimately dangerous. The Spanish Inquisition was meant to root out non-Catholics, which is something the Spanish nobility wanted, regardless of danger presented. Many within the Silver Flame were trying to do what was right, while the Spanish Inquisition was only about getting rid of undesireables. That's mainly why I called it a pseudo-Inquisition. That, and I can't think of a Mel Brooks song to parallel the Silver Purge.
I would also compare Karnath to a mix of Prusia (English spelling?, regardless it is one of the more powerful German princedoms around the time of Napoleon) and Rusland. I would certainly not compare it to Germany as a whole, let alone to two decades between WWI and WWII.
Prussia (double s) is the English spelling, as is Russia ;). I agree with your view of Karnath.
Zilargo I see as a mix of Switzerland (Neutrality) and the Renaissance Italian city-states like Venice and Florence (art/architecture).
The Holds also have a Swiss feel to me. (Mountains, Banking)
Valenar remind me of the Mongol hordes with some Arabic spicing.
Writing about the Valenar made me think, how much of this feeling is from the actual text and how much is form the accompanying art (which has been shaped by the cultural parallels drawn by the artist). The main reason the Valenar have an Arabic feel to me is the clothing the art protrays them as wearing which looks like (my pop-culture interpretation of) medieval Arab garb.
The Holds also have a Swiss feel to me. (Mountains, Banking)
Considering the clan structure and the strife between the clans it sounds much more like Scottish highlands than Switzerland to me. The only banking has to do with House Kundarakk, the rest of the clans are not particularly known for it. Of course, I absolutely hate all those dwarves running around with Scottish accents, although, that might be because of particular player in my home game
(And no, it is not Morgrum ;))Valenar remind me of the Mongol hordes with some Arabic spicing.
Writing about the Valenar made me think, how much of this feeling is from the actual text and how much is form the accompanying art (which has been shaped by the cultural parallels drawn by the artist). The main reason the Valenar have an Arabic feel to me is the clothing the art protrays them as wearing which looks like (my pop-culture interpretation of) medieval Arab garb.
Well, the Mongols did conquer Persia for a short time ;)
While the outlook of the Valenar look a lot look pop-culture medieval Arab, both in regards to the desert, horse riding, tribal structure and attitude towards the outside world, I would say all comparisons stop there. The ancestor worship, the love for battle, aggressive stance of honor and the strife to immulate one specific ancestor as some kind of spirit totem are a bit too unique to compare to any RL equivalent. Maybe it looks a bit like pop-culture prejudices about Native American plain tribes such as the Sioux? Mmmm... counting coup would actually fit the Valenar very well.
Valenar's culture is definitely one of the most interesting. The style of the headdresses (especially the headdresses) and clothing, along with the shape of their blades leads me to think Valenar has Persian influences. Seeing the art made me think of the Persian Immortals, particularly (not the ones in 300, the ones shown in historical art).
As for the ancestor worship (not technically worship, but let's leave it be for the moment), the closest culture I could find that associated with the Spirits of the Past was the ancient Egyptian veneration of the dead in order to make sure the spirit would live on, but that was it.
Now, Zilargo, that definitely comes off like Switzerland, but more because it is surrounded by combative countries (Breland and Darguun) than anything else. IIRC, Switzerland is surrounded by mountains (The Alps), and most of Zilargo's borders are made up of mountains, so this could lead more credence to this parallel.
I like to think of Cyre more as Renaissance-era Italy. As I remember, Rome was known for debauchery, and many devout Christians during that time felt the period involved some activities the church viewed as sinful. One could interpret the Day of Mourning as retribution for those sins. Whether this is true or not, I don't really care, but the Mourning could have been vengeance from within.
That's my quibble, based on the historical fact of Swiss mercenary murdilation of....everyone.
The thing about Switzerland, though, is that Swiss mercenaries were so terrifying that they were banned from fighting as mercenaries, or in anything but defense of Switzerland or the Pope. Zilargo is terrifying in terms of intelligence capability, but not in terms of raw military power.
That's my quibble, based on the historical fact of Swiss mercenary murdilation of....everyone.
Actually, it could be substitution. Instead of Zilargo being good at combat, they're good at information. Considering gnomes aren't exactly built for open warfare, that makes information all the more useful to them.
Also, the Swiss having prime mercenaries makes a lot of sense, now that you mention it. I completely forgot about the Swiss Guard. I would assume the country's history in warfare was the reason the Church wanted the Swiss Guard.