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Eberron elf questions

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
mergedloki
Mar 25, 2008 3:22:13 Ok, currently I Play dnd in FR but I always like having a couple settings to switch things up every few characters. Also been playing in FR since 2E and a change would be nice.

anyways, I have the 'races of eberron' book and am getting the actual campaign setting this week (store didnt' have it when i was last in).
So this isn't mentioned in the races book. I'm just wondering...:
i'm assuming it (campaign book) mentions the ability bonus/penalties the different types of elves get? or do they all just get the standard +2/dex -2/con from PHB?
And for the Drow of Eberron, it states in the 'races' book that they favor using long knives (exotic weapon) because they do more dmg than a dagger and have range (10 ft.) so i'm wondering do thye get a racial proficieny w/this weapon or no?
I'm aware I could just read it all up in 3 or 4 days time but as i'm always planning little things (plot hooks, rough npc ideas etc.) in the back of my head id like to have an idea sooner rather than later.
seeing as it's 4:30am i hope i was clear enough. later.
#2
Gurv
Mar 25, 2008 6:16:08
Ok, currently I Play dnd in FR but I always like having a couple settings to switch things up every few characters. Also been playing in FR since 2E and a change would be nice.

Eberron doesn't create a subrace every time an elf goes from one room to the next.

Elves are assumed to be the default elf from the PHB. What matters in Eberron is culture. An elf from Aerenal is completely different from one that has grown up alongside the humans of Khorvaire.

They're all assumed to use the PHB stats, unless the DM wants to add other subraces (which is perfectly fine, if you're into that sort of thing).

And drow are not automatically proficient with long knives or any of the other weapons. The Drow Skirmisher Feat (RoE 109) allows them to treat it as a martial weapon and grants them additional benefits.
#3
rav3nw0lf
Mar 27, 2008 18:28:08
Ok, currently I Play dnd in FR but I always like having a couple settings to switch things up every few characters. Also been playing in FR since 2E and a change would be nice.

anyways, I have the 'races of eberron' book and am getting the actual campaign setting this week (store didnt' have it when i was last in).
So this isn't mentioned in the races book. I'm just wondering...:
i'm assuming it (campaign book) mentions the ability bonus/penalties the different types of elves get? or do they all just get the standard +2/dex -2/con from PHB?
And for the Drow of Eberron, it states in the 'races' book that they favor using long knives (exotic weapon) because they do more dmg than a dagger and have range (10 ft.) so i'm wondering do thye get a racial proficieny w/this weapon or no?
I'm aware I could just read it all up in 3 or 4 days time but as i'm always planning little things (plot hooks, rough npc ideas etc.) in the back of my head id like to have an idea sooner rather than later.
seeing as it's 4:30am i hope i was clear enough. later.

What I'm doing with the Elves in Eberron, is treating them like the Elves from FR. The Aerenal are getting +2 INT, -2 STR (Gray Elves); Valenar Elves are +2 STR, -2 INT (Wood Elves); and the Khorvaire Elves are the standard PHB
#4
Edymnion
Mar 27, 2008 19:10:07
What I'm doing with the Elves in Eberron, is treating them like the Elves from FR. The Aerenal are getting +2 INT, -2 STR (Gray Elves); Valenar Elves are +2 STR, -2 INT (Wood Elves); and the Khorvaire Elves are the standard PHB

As much as I'm against this idea in general, that is the most logical way to go about it.

But again, I think its important to stress the idea that in Eberron, culture and nationality are more important than anything else. Just like humans, there is only one basic model of us, its just where we live and what culture we are in that dictates how we end up.

Just because some african tribe is renowned as the best runners around doesn't mean they are a different subrace with a higher base speed, it just means that cultural pressures steer most of them to take the Run feat as their racial bonus feat.

Same with the elves here. From a mechanic standpoint, the Valenar are putting their highest stat in Strength or Con more often than not, and they place an emphasis on combat, so most of them will put any level up ability boosts they get into Strength or Con. Sure, they're not as frail as other elves, because they devote higher base ability scores to make up for that Con penalty.

IMO, playing in Eberron means you have to break out of the tired old ways. There are no subraces, because they don't make sense. They were only put there in the first place to make elves (and then practically every other race) be good at every class in the game. Why, when the difference between a normal human and a hulking half-orc is only a +2 Strength, would something with an equal increase still be an Elf?

Sure, we can rationalize putting them in all we want, but then even what little basis subraces had to begin with is just gone. Why can't I use Half-Orc rules and say I'm a human from the Reaches? Or be a human from the mountains that uses Dwarf stats? Sure, its doable, but at that point you lose any reason to have races in the first place. Just give the players "+2 any stat, -2 any stat, and pick a favored class. There, now call yourself whatever you want".
#5
Gurv
Mar 28, 2008 11:03:18 Nope. You are right on this. There is no rule or text anywhere that says that Eberron does not have subraces of elves.

I was incorrect when I referred to the "no subrace" stance as the default assumption for the Eberron setting. Also, my use of the word "default" was not utilized in the correct context.

What I should have done is to have expressed the "no subraces" stance as an opinion. It is an opinion shared by myself, a number of frequent posters on this message board, as well as the creator of the setting Keith Baker. It should also be noted that the majority of them, notably Mr. Baker, also agree that such things can easily be incorporated into a game should the DM wish to do so.
#6
ORC_Wyvern
Mar 28, 2008 21:35:47 Wanna fight about grammar and word definitions? Take it outside.

These here forums are about...games.

So until Wizards creates a forum for the exciting RPG "Textbooks and Grammar Teachers", there should not be debates about people's language usage. Debate ideas and opinions, not personal attributes.

Thanks much!
WizO Ginger
#7
mergedloki
Mar 28, 2008 22:56:22 Well im (in theory) running my first eberonn adventure next week (just gonna run the sample one outta the back of ECS) and im just gonna go with the basic PHB elves b/c as another poster already stated, the elves are different in culture not racial make up. (well cept for the drow of course they'll have the drow ability modse c.)
Thanks for all the posts, gave me a few ideas.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mergedloki Mar 25, 2008 3:22:13	Ok, currently I Play dnd in FR but I always like having a couple settings to switch things up every few characters. Also been playing in FR since 2E and a change would be nice. anyways, I have the 'races of eberron' book and am getting the actual campaign setting this week (store didnt' have it when i was last in). So this isn't mentioned in the races book. I'm just wondering...: i'm assuming it (campaign book) mentions the ability bonus/penalties the different types of elves get? or do they all just get the standard +2/dex -2/con from PHB? And for the Drow of Eberron, it states in the 'races' book that they favor using long knives (exotic weapon) because they do more dmg than a dagger and have range (10 ft.) so i'm wondering do thye get a racial proficieny w/this weapon or no? I'm aware I could just read it all up in 3 or 4 days time but as i'm always planning little things (plot hooks, rough npc ideas etc.) in the back of my head id like to have an idea sooner rather than later. seeing as it's 4:30am i hope i was clear enough. later.
#2 Gurv Mar 25, 2008 6:16:08	Ok, currently I Play dnd in FR but I always like having a couple settings to switch things up every few characters. Also been playing in FR since 2E and a change would be nice. Eberron doesn't create a subrace every time an elf goes from one room to the next. Elves are assumed to be the default elf from the PHB. What matters in Eberron is culture. An elf from Aerenal is completely different from one that has grown up alongside the humans of Khorvaire. They're all assumed to use the PHB stats, unless the DM wants to add other subraces (which is perfectly fine, if you're into that sort of thing). And drow are not automatically proficient with long knives or any of the other weapons. The Drow Skirmisher Feat (RoE 109) allows them to treat it as a martial weapon and grants them additional benefits.
#3 rav3nw0lf Mar 27, 2008 18:28:08	Ok, currently I Play dnd in FR but I always like having a couple settings to switch things up every few characters. Also been playing in FR since 2E and a change would be nice. anyways, I have the 'races of eberron' book and am getting the actual campaign setting this week (store didnt' have it when i was last in). So this isn't mentioned in the races book. I'm just wondering...: i'm assuming it (campaign book) mentions the ability bonus/penalties the different types of elves get? or do they all just get the standard +2/dex -2/con from PHB? And for the Drow of Eberron, it states in the 'races' book that they favor using long knives (exotic weapon) because they do more dmg than a dagger and have range (10 ft.) so i'm wondering do thye get a racial proficieny w/this weapon or no? I'm aware I could just read it all up in 3 or 4 days time but as i'm always planning little things (plot hooks, rough npc ideas etc.) in the back of my head id like to have an idea sooner rather than later. seeing as it's 4:30am i hope i was clear enough. later. What I'm doing with the Elves in Eberron, is treating them like the Elves from FR. The Aerenal are getting +2 INT, -2 STR (Gray Elves); Valenar Elves are +2 STR, -2 INT (Wood Elves); and the Khorvaire Elves are the standard PHB
#4 Edymnion Mar 27, 2008 19:10:07	What I'm doing with the Elves in Eberron, is treating them like the Elves from FR. The Aerenal are getting +2 INT, -2 STR (Gray Elves); Valenar Elves are +2 STR, -2 INT (Wood Elves); and the Khorvaire Elves are the standard PHB As much as I'm against this idea in general, that is the most logical way to go about it. But again, I think its important to stress the idea that in Eberron, culture and nationality are more important than anything else. Just like humans, there is only one basic model of us, its just where we live and what culture we are in that dictates how we end up. Just because some african tribe is renowned as the best runners around doesn't mean they are a different subrace with a higher base speed, it just means that cultural pressures steer most of them to take the Run feat as their racial bonus feat. Same with the elves here. From a mechanic standpoint, the Valenar are putting their highest stat in Strength or Con more often than not, and they place an emphasis on combat, so most of them will put any level up ability boosts they get into Strength or Con. Sure, they're not as frail as other elves, because they devote higher base ability scores to make up for that Con penalty. IMO, playing in Eberron means you have to break out of the tired old ways. There are no subraces, because they don't make sense. They were only put there in the first place to make elves (and then practically every other race) be good at every class in the game. Why, when the difference between a normal human and a hulking half-orc is only a +2 Strength, would something with an equal increase still be an Elf? Sure, we can rationalize putting them in all we want, but then even what little basis subraces had to begin with is just gone. Why can't I use Half-Orc rules and say I'm a human from the Reaches? Or be a human from the mountains that uses Dwarf stats? Sure, its doable, but at that point you lose any reason to have races in the first place. Just give the players "+2 any stat, -2 any stat, and pick a favored class. There, now call yourself whatever you want".
#5 Gurv Mar 28, 2008 11:03:18	Nope. You are right on this. There is no rule or text anywhere that says that Eberron does not have subraces of elves. I was incorrect when I referred to the "no subrace" stance as the default assumption for the Eberron setting. Also, my use of the word "default" was not utilized in the correct context. What I should have done is to have expressed the "no subraces" stance as an opinion. It is an opinion shared by myself, a number of frequent posters on this message board, as well as the creator of the setting Keith Baker. It should also be noted that the majority of them, notably Mr. Baker, also agree that such things can easily be incorporated into a game should the DM wish to do so.
#6 ORC_Wyvern Mar 28, 2008 21:35:47	Wanna fight about grammar and word definitions? Take it outside. These here forums are about...games. So until Wizards creates a forum for the exciting RPG "Textbooks and Grammar Teachers", there should not be debates about people's language usage. Debate ideas and opinions, not personal attributes. Thanks much! WizO Ginger
#7 mergedloki Mar 28, 2008 22:56:22	Well im (in theory) running my first eberonn adventure next week (just gonna run the sample one outta the back of ECS) and im just gonna go with the basic PHB elves b/c as another poster already stated, the elves are different in culture not racial make up. (well cept for the drow of course they'll have the drow ability modse c.) Thanks for all the posts, gave me a few ideas.