I was trying to think of a way to help everyone understand the setting more fluidly and with less trouble when it occurred to me, the flaw of my previous way of explaining Eberron's facets was that I presumed the Points of Light setting as the default and the trains, message stations, professional soldiers and nationalism and intercontinental expeditions and all that, I explained all these things as modifications of the base PoL assumptions.
The over-stretched suspension of disbelief I felt my players were experiencing could be explained as not each individual factor of Eberron being unbelievable ("Airships? Yeah that makes sense. Any wizard with a levitate spell could do that, and harnessing an elemental instead of, say, coal or gasoline, makes sense for propulsion") but the cumulative effect of each slight stretch of disbelief combining to an overall awkward feeling towards the setting. What I mean is, airships are easy to add to PoL. So are trains. So are teleport stations, telegraphs, newspapers, and so on. But the combined total of each individual addition to the PoL setting being a bit much.
So if the problem wasn't each individual setting alteration but the cumulative effect, could I use this knowledge to ease the transition for new players into the setting?
Don't get me wrong. I love the setting, my players do too, and I don't think this is a big problem, but just a minor one with a relatively easy solution.
Regardless, my solution came out to be something like this: my approach to explaining Eberron has always been to tell people to behave as though this were the base Points of Light setting, except where I say differently ("I want to play an elf, because they're very spirited and woodsmany." "Alright. In Eberron, there are three types of elves: Aerenal, who live on their own smallish continent living in concert with their forests, Khorvaire, who urban dwellers living alongside the other races, and Valenar, who are veiled desert warrior tribes from the southeast, who aren't particularly friendly to anybody.") What if, instead, I told people to imagine the setting as Early Nineteenth century America/England, but with magic, and clarified my statements from there rather than clarifying my statements from the PoL setting.
Instead of having to say: "Yes, this is like PoL, except there are trains, and nations, and telegraphs, and airships, and all of that." I would merely have to say "This is like a stylized magical 19th century real world: there are gnomes who run telegraphs and print newspapers, there are great universities where middle-class families struggle with debt for years to send their children through. The train network crisscrosses the continent, but instead of coal they are powered by elementals. Airships--kind of like zepplins, except also elemental-powered--are a recent invention but are popular among the rich..."
And so on.
In retrospect, I find myself realizing that I've always given Eberron a steampunk/19th century real world sort of feel: In the pictures of the aristocracy I've drawn/stolen for handouts (newspapers, NPC portraits, etc), they wear that era of clothing. The class structure I've subtly portrayed has always been similar to the 19th century America. Heck, Sharn has always been, in my mind, 19th-century Boston, and during the Last War my Thrane soldiers had started taking up the use of muskets.
Straight-up telling the group "this is the base assumption of the world you should have in mind, not PoL" is the natural conclusion of this tendency.
So anyway, that's just my little rambling thought process, that I thought would be a useful concept for new Eberron DMs to consider, and one I want the opinion other DMs who have been playing Eberron since it came out like me. I think from now on I'll explain Eberron as being magical 19th-century: I think it'll help with suspension of disbelief, and what's more, make it easier for me to explain every facet of the setting, from the slavery of the warforged, the civil war, to exploring other continents and the departure of nature to the face of the industrial revolution...
Anyway, thoughts?
But I think going "It's like this but..." isn't the best way to convey the setting, let the themes of the setting speak for itself, and the rest will follow.
My personal choice is something like this: "The continent just went through a hundred year long civil war, which only ended because of the mysterious annihilation of a nation. Magic is used widely in both war and day to day life, allowing for Trains and telegraph-like communication. Industry is controlled by 12 magical bloodlines amongst the different races of the world, and each race's culture in their own nations are slightly different from the ones you know well - and the war, The Last War... it's not really over."
Then you can explain undead worshiping elves, valenar, Halfling Barbarians, Crazy backstabbing gnomes, Eladrin who have been in the world for only 2 years... dwarves still being dwarves (But they're BANKERS! really thats VERY cool.) etc
Explaining it like that I think is much more evocative and informational that saying... "Well, it's kinda like PoLand, but there's trains" and there isn't going to be any assuming POL assumptions hold up and then they make character concept for that, for example halflings are a river traveling people, and they come up with a concept like that, then having it (slightly) dashed (I'm sure something could be come up with, but it wouldn't be REALLY Eberron)
And I've always pictured Sharn more as a combination of 19th century London, Rio de Janeiro and 19th and early 20th century New York.
Oh and Sharn is totally new york, and Fairhaven is clearly London
To me, we have to split London into two categories: Light London and Dark London. Dark London is the kind you see in Sweeney Todd or From Hell. Light London is more like actual modern London (I can't think of any movies that put London in a positive light XD): sure, there might be gangs and/or corruption, but for the most part the people are friendly and generally Good aligned (or so was my London traveling experience at least =P)
I see Sharn as Dark London and Fairhaven as Light London.
EDIT: *humming*
There's a hole in the world like a great black pit
and the vermin of the world inhabit it
and its morals aren't worth what a pig could spit
and it goes by the name of London.
While I agree with the overall assessment, I would pick a slightly earlier time then turn of the century 1900 Europe. I would go back to the very early Industrial Revolution time and describe it more as post-Napoleon then pre-WWI ;)
Furthermore, I don't agree with your comparison. Breland is nowhere near as democratic as the States in that period. Breland is actually much more comparable to England at the time. Remember, England had a parlaiment and that parlaiment did had something to say about state government. Aunaudair is also depicted much more like France with their love for good food, luxery and even a faction of somewhat fanatic Catholic erm Silver Flame worshippers ;) Thrane would be the Vatican. Karnath Russia. That leaves Cyre, who would be Austria/Germany, the big players in Europe we are missing at this point ;)
Aundaire I see as being a combination of France aristocracy and cities and Italian wine-country.
As for the original topic; I agree with your idea to abandon the PoL setting as a baseline for explaining things (afterall, Eberron predates PoL and was always more cosmopolitan and connected than other settings), but don't forget that a lot of those "modern" conveniences like airships, trains, and telegraphs don't connect to all the numerous small little towns.
Remember that airships can't land, or they'd wreck their bottom elemental strut. They need mooring towers to properly load and unload cargo and passengers, and those are only built in cities where House Lyrander forsees profit. Trains only go to places with conductor stones, and even then will blow right by if there isn't a station to disembark on. Whispering Wind telegraphs from sending stones can only reach other sending stones, so unless House Sivis believes there's an economic reason for having a sending stone station in a town, there won't be one.
Basically, you can still have Points of Light in Eberron, it's just that there are some really huge, blinding beacons of light as well. There's mass transit and communication between really big cities and capitols, but there are hundreds and hundres of little villages and thorps that've never seen these modern ammenities.
Don't forget that a lot of those "modern" conveniences like airships, trains, and telegraphs don't connect to all the numerous small little towns... Basically, you can still have Points of Light in Eberron, it's just that there are some really huge, blinding beacons of light as well. There's mass transit and communication between really big cities and capitols, but there are hundreds and hundres of little villages and thorps that've never seen these modern ammenities.
That's it in a nutshell. If you're looking for a "point of light" feel, just come up with a reason for players to go to a frontier town that's not on the stones or the rail, or where the rail connection was lost in the war and hasn't been repaired yet... perhaps somewhere on the fringes that's been traded around, or an area like the Droaam edge of Breland, which bears the same relation to Sharn that Valenar did to Metrol back before the elves came along. You've got those well-connected beacons of light and you can avoid the points if you want - but there's lots of points off the edge of that network.
The OP notes other elements that diminish the standard POL view, namely instant communication and safe travel. Khorvaire's a very connected world, and regular people can easily stay within the grasp of civilization their entire lives.
*That said, Eberron is very much a POL setting, but the PCs themselves are the points of light. It's always been true in Eberron (and is now standard in 4E) that people powerful enough to have PC classes are very rare. A first-level PC starts off extraodrinary. When things need to change, regular people can't do much about it. They aren't helpless in the face of an unknown, savage world - they are helpess in the face of an indifferent civilization. It takes heroes to help people in this world - it's just that the danger they face comes from organizations and institutions more often.
Don't forget that a lot of those "modern" conveniences like airships, trains, and telegraphs don't connect to all the numerous small little towns... Basically, you can still have Points of Light in Eberron, it's just that there are some really huge, blinding beacons of light as well. There's mass transit and communication between really big cities and capitols, but there are hundreds and hundres of little villages and thorps that've never seen these modern ammenities.
That's it in a nutshell. If you're looking for a "point of light" feel, just come up with a reason for players to go to a frontier town that's not on the stones or the rail, or where the rail connection was lost in the war and hasn't been repaired yet... perhaps somewhere on the fringes that's been traded around, or an area like the Droaam edge of Breland, which bears the same relation to Sharn that Valenar did to Metrol back before the elves came along. You've got those well-connected beacons of light and you can avoid the points if you want - but there's lots of points off the edge of that network.
Do you feel it would be appropriate to run eberron in a way where the five nations are pretty much "all light" in the sense that most, if not all, settlements have good roads leading to them, at least one stone, a rail station is probably only a few days ride away, etc? basically, the kind of place where your biggest direct threat that doesn't involve politics is highwaymen?
I mean, obviously Xen'drik is mostly darkness, with few points of light, but what draws me to eberron is the sense that the light and the darkness are both found in the same places. You might be buying bread from a guy who is "owned" by a crime syndicate which is in turn controlled by one of the various evil bastard organisations. or he could be in the employ of the flame, as a watchmen, scouting for Evil!(tm).
and really, you can't be sure which would be more of a threat.
am I offbase? would I essentially be reinterpreting the setting in a non-core manner?
Don't forget that a lot of those "modern" conveniences like airships, trains, and telegraphs don't connect to all the numerous small little towns... Basically, you can still have Points of Light in Eberron, it's just that there are some really huge, blinding beacons of light as well. There's mass transit and communication between really big cities and capitols, but there are hundreds and hundres of little villages and thorps that've never seen these modern ammenities.
That's it in a nutshell. If you're looking for a "point of light" feel, just come up with a reason for players to go to a frontier town that's not on the stones or the rail, or where the rail connection was lost in the war and hasn't been repaired yet... perhaps somewhere on the fringes that's been traded around, or an area like the Droaam edge of Breland, which bears the same relation to Sharn that Valenar did to Metrol back before the elves came along. You've got those well-connected beacons of light and you can avoid the points if you want - but there's lots of points off the edge of that network.
Do you feel it would be appropriate to run eberron in a way where the five nations are pretty much "all light" in the sense that most, if not all, settlements have good roads leading to them, at least one stone, a rail station is probably only a few days ride away, etc? basically, the kind of place where your biggest direct threat that doesn't involve politics is highwaymen?
I mean, obviously Xen'drik is mostly darkness, with few points of light, but what draws me to eberron is the sense that the light and the darkness are both found in the same places. You might be buying bread from a guy who is "owned" by a crime syndicate which is in turn controlled by one of the various evil bastard organisations. or he could be in the employ of the flame, as a watchmen, scouting for Evil!(tm).
and really, you can't be sure which would be more of a threat.
am I offbase? would I essentially be reinterpreting the setting in a non-core manner?
You seem to be mostly on track for how I see Eberron in my mind, but instead of being vast points of light, I see the 4 remaining nations as points of grey. Some places approach light, most areas well-traveled are pretty safe, but it gets dicier as the grey gets darker. And sometimes they contrast greatly, because shadows can be darker and are more defined when the light is brighter.
I Definitely like the idea that everyone is a little dirty - they're owned by the Boromar, or Killed someone with friendly fire in the War, or cheat on their taxes, or were Dragon Below cultists in their youth.
Don't forget that a lot of those "modern" conveniences like airships, trains, and telegraphs don't connect to all the numerous small little towns... Basically, you can still have Points of Light in Eberron, it's just that there are some really huge, blinding beacons of light as well. There's mass transit and communication between really big cities and capitols, but there are hundreds and hundres of little villages and thorps that've never seen these modern ammenities.
That's it in a nutshell. If you're looking for a "point of light" feel, just come up with a reason for players to go to a frontier town that's not on the stones or the rail, or where the rail connection was lost in the war and hasn't been repaired yet... perhaps somewhere on the fringes that's been traded around, or an area like the Droaam edge of Breland, which bears the same relation to Sharn that Valenar did to Metrol back before the elves came along. You've got those well-connected beacons of light and you can avoid the points if you want - but there's lots of points off the edge of that network.
Do you feel it would be appropriate to run eberron in a way where the five nations are pretty much "all light" in the sense that most, if not all, settlements have good roads leading to them, at least one stone, a rail station is probably only a few days ride away, etc? basically, the kind of place where your biggest direct threat that doesn't involve politics is highwaymen?
I mean, obviously Xen'drik is mostly darkness, with few points of light, but what draws me to eberron is the sense that the light and the darkness are both found in the same places. You might be buying bread from a guy who is "owned" by a crime syndicate which is in turn controlled by one of the various evil bastard organisations. or he could be in the employ of the flame, as a watchmen, scouting for Evil!(tm).
and really, you can't be sure which would be more of a threat.
am I offbase? would I essentially be reinterpreting the setting in a non-core manner?
I don't think you *can* be wrong in portraying Eberron in any way you wish. If you want even small thorps at the edge of the Five Nations to have a sending stone station and well-maintained Orien Trade Roads leading to the nearest bigger settlement, by all means. It's your game and no one (not me, Hellcow, or even WotC) can tell you how to run it. As for what's "core" for the world, I'm pretty sure the specifics of what's available to little villages isn't even commented upon. So there isn't a "cannon" view on the matter. My reply above is more just my interpretation of what's written (and taking the opinions of Hellcow into account when portraying my Eberron to my players).
The reality is that given the scale of Khorvaire (and it is MASSIVE), people are pretty thin on the ground. You go a few miles off the roads or Lightning Rails, and you are in the middle of nowhere.
So, yeah, there are these big metropolitan areas, and they are fairly well connected to each other by Orien roads and Lightning Rails and sea lanes and such. The populated areas are pretty well managed (although less well so now that the veterans are back... bush wars are flaring up everywhere, with these veterans looking to get their land back, but those land lords got muscle of their own too... the papers don't send reporters out that way, but you'll be hearing about it soon, don't you worry...). But the hinterlands are so vast that in the scale of things, they are dwarfed by the areas that are simply unsettled.
Civilization hasn't really conquered Khorvaire... it's ON Khorvaire, but it doesn't dominate it. Who really knows what is out there in those woods? Dhakaani ruins? Remnants from the Age of Demons? Abandoned machines of an abortive settlement attempt by the Fifth Titanic Empire? And that's WITHIN the Five Nations.
Beyond the 5N, information is even dicier.
Overheard at an Shamukaar's Tavern in Sharn, from a hardened Aundairan merchant to some clueless young adventurers:
Q'barra? Who has any idea about what's beyond sight of the river banks? Some people say that there's escaped slaves out there, building a confederacy that'll throw out those Cyrean jerks who run the show, but maybe that's hogwash... I ain't seen an escapee who had an ounce of fight in him... he's just running for his life, and if it ain't from the disease and the flies and the dragon turtles it's from the lizard men with their poison blowguns and hankering for man flesh.
The Demon Wastes? Has anyone ever come back from there? The orcs in the Labyrinth will kill you before you know it... and that's IF you can survive the Druid-haunted Eldeen to get there by land... forget landing on the coast. The oceans act as though they are possessed by the Fury and I don't know of a single landing party that's made it through the night.
The Shadow Marches? What fool would actually go out there? Zarash'ak is awful enough... yeah some people have gone to places like Valshar'ak and up the river to Patrahk'n, but it's not like they've stuck around for longer than it took to do business. Even the orcs know better than to go beyond earshot into the marshes. Listen, I just pay the Tharashk and they make the deliveries. Where they get the shards ain't my problem.
Darguun? Even when Cyre was on top, they made sure that there was a no trafficking policy near the Seawalls, and any man that went across the Torlaac River into the moors was taking his life into his own hands. 400 soldiers looking for some rebel prince or other vanished into the Khraal about a century before the Last War. The only info anyone got back was the word "DEAD" carved in some Giant tongue, right into the stone wall of Wyvernskull. You can go there and see it if you want. Letters are ten feet high. Can't miss'em... carved a foot deep. Showed up in the middle of the night... guards on the walls didn't hear a peep...
The Principalities? You ever heard of Dreadhold? yeah... well it ain't the scariest bit of that little stretch. it's right off from Cape Far, huge cliffs that come right up to the ocean, except for one little spot where there's this rocky little beach. The Kundaraks who run the prison, every month, they get in a little boat they got, load it up with the bodies of the dead prisoners and row out to that tiny bit of coast. And mind you, the seas there, they roar up in waves twenty feet high on a good day, but around this narrow crack in the cliff... these dwarves, they take the bodies out of the boat, and leave'em there on the shore. Then, they jump in their boat and row like the dickens back to their island. Don't ask me why... I don't wanna know myself...
oh, and don't get me started on the Mournland.
When you look at the broader world, the lack of hard knowledge is even more stark. The oceans are largely untraveled beyond the Khorvairean coast and the routes to Stormreach. Sarlona, Xen'drik, and Argonnessen are essential no-go zones, and I for one wouldn't be signing up for a cruise to Aerenal. While the GM and the players know all about these places, the PCs sure don't... which is why the Universities are so interesting--they are reaching out to find out about these places for the first time. So, beyond Khorvaire, you aren't talking about knowledge being in the 19th century, with world maps and transoceanic trade routes--it's the early 16th century... da Gama has just landed in India, and there's this idea that there's a landmass or at least some islands pretty far out west. But even then, there's no equivalent Marco Polo who has actually gone deep inside Sarlona... just the old myths about what things were like back there thousands of years past.
That's just how I look at things.
If you're in Sharn, the west side of the street might be safe and the east side dangerous. The streets might be safe but the shopkeeper on 4th Avenue a serial killer.
If you're in Breland, all other nations are darkness in the same way that during the cold war, an American would find Russia an area of darkness.
But in each nation, the towns within them are points of light and the wilderness around them relatively darker.
And the entire continent is a point of light--it doesn't matter if you're in the Demon Wastes, you can find some Silver Flamists to hang out with! But if you go into Xen'drik, Aeranel, etc., well, you're screwed.
BUT at some levels and after certain quests, the entire continent might be your friend compared to Dal Quor!
...but even the Quori are willing to be your friends compared to the greater evils of Xoriat who wish to upset their reign...
The point is that to me, Eberron can be put into many, many, MANY forms, and here's the important bit: depending on the nature of the campaign.
If I want my players to save the world from Asmodeus the Rakshasa Rajah rising from his volcanic prison, I really don't care about political intrigue between Breland and Thrane. But on the other hand, if the campaign involves Aundair starting the Last War up again, the fact that outsiders with funny accents are treated as untrustworthy spies becomes very relevant when the players cross the border, if they can get past the border patrols who, in a campaign where the party has to meet the Gatekeepers to stop Xoriat, don't exist...
Yeah. I guess I'm rambling a bit. The point is, I've run campaigns where a Karrnath necromancer, an Aundair evocationist, and a Brelish ex-soldier warforged have saved the world without their national origins being important. And I've run campaigns where the players are all Cyran and have to deal with the fact that they are treated well and trusted by no other nation, though Breland treats them the least-worst. Both are equally valid, and one of the things I love about Eberron (and one of the things that makes me sort of proud to DM it) is that these things AREN'T written in stone, they're barely specified.
In terms of how prolific telegraphs are, we get the following information:
"House Sivis exists, and they can operate sending stations. Rich people might have their own station, big cities might have a couple."
It doesn't say anything about how common they are in small towns. So if they don't exist there, I can have it that way and isolate the players--if they DO exist there, I can have it that way, all without contradicting the Eberron Campaign Guide.
Are monsters hiding in the woods outside the walls of Sharn? It's not written yes or no. So "whichever way is more convenient to the campaign."
Sharn might be a point of light, or Breland might be a point of light, or Khorvaire a point of light, or Eberron a point of light, or evne the entire planescape a point of light, all depending on how we the DMs want it (and, of course, our parties level)
The politics are mainly in relative to the five nations; I'm sure if I stretched or looked hard enough I could find comparisons for nations like Darguul or Droaam, but I think they are best left out.
Anyways, my views on the five nations are that Breland equates to the Empire of Great Britian (including India, which is seen in the spicy food the southerns like) with Sharn as a homage to New York and London. Aundair is pretty easily France pre French Rebellion. Cyre equated to Italy (and more specifically Florence and Venice), while Karrnath is heavily Prussian with a touch of Eastern Europe as well.
Of course, this leaves Thrane, which doesn't neatly fit into the political model. Most days, I see Thrane as Spanish, with a more powerful church, but I'm willing to be flexible on this one.
As for the points of light campaign, I'd say once you leave the major population centers, the PoL campaign fits fairly well, especially in places like Droaam, Darguun, and Xen'drik.
Cutting back to historical comparisons, I've always viewed Eberron as having a war equal to WWI, politics following the Napoleonic war, some technology from the 1800s (mainly trains and telegraphs), but with a guild system that stifled development in other areas (the Dragonmarked houses).
The politics are mainly in relative to the five nations; I'm sure if I stretched or looked hard enough I could find comparisons for nations like Darguul or Droaam, but I think they are best left out.
Anyways, my views on the five nations are that Breland equates to the Empire of Great Britian (including India, which is seen in the spicy food the southerns like) with Sharn as a homage to New York and London. Aundair is pretty easily France pre French Rebellion. Cyre equated to Italy (and more specifically Florence and Venice), while Karrnath is heavily Prussian with a touch of Eastern Europe as well.
Of course, this leaves Thrane, which doesn't neatly fit into the political model. Most days, I see Thrane as Spanish, with a more powerful church, but I'm willing to be flexible on this one.
As for the points of light campaign, I'd say once you leave the major population centers, the PoL campaign fits fairly well, especially in places like Droaam, Darguun, and Xen'drik.
I dunno if these strict one for one comparisons work out so well. After all, the 5N were all one kingdom for a thousand years--they are much more similar to each other than different in a lot of ways. There's a bit of flavor here and there, but by and large, they are the same country with some regional differences.
additionally, this is a world where there are trolls and dragons and elves and magic... it's not like there's any real way to say that this is similar to RL Europe.
Now, concerning the Last War, I think there isn't a war equal to it in Earth history. Consider: It is a vicious civil war (we'll go with the American Civil War) that is not concluded (thus, leaving all sorts of tensions between nations; no real parallel), but was nevertheless long and very destructive (look at the Thirty Years War) and resulted in the political fragmentation, generally by secession (no parallel) of the major countries. The war resulted in the creation of and employment of drastically new technologies (World War I), but no nation ever got the upper hand and the war was ended by the destruction of the country (no parallel).
Again, it's like nothing this world has seen, and God willing, will not see.
Now, focusing on the 998 YK political system, of the four major powers, three of them had lands secede from them. All of them had their allies turn on them at some point, and the relations between Thrane, Karrnath, and Aundair are cool enough to see your breath in. Sure, the Treaty of Thronehold was signed, but.....all of the nations think that the other nations are just preparing for a new offensive.
Sure, you might be able to draw out some cultural similarities to Earth, but they will be scattered over all sorts of epochs, and not really usable.
So, I'd say stay away from the real world.
I agree with Yakman. Trying to draw RL parallels probably isn't a good idea. For a world like 7th Sea, yeah, the parallels are built into the setting. Not so much for Eberron.
But players will draw parellels, DMs will draw parallels. It's the nature of the game, and it makes imagining the setting easier. It's not a 'should I' but 'how well can I control it when it happens'
Now, concerning the Last War, I think there isn't a war equal to it in Earth history. Consider: It is a vicious civil war (we'll go with the American Civil War) that is not concluded (thus, leaving all sorts of tensions between nations; no real parallel), but was nevertheless long and very destructive (look at the Thirty Years War) and resulted in the political fragmentation, generally by secession (no parallel) of the major countries. The war resulted in the creation of and employment of drastically new technologies (World War I), but no nation ever got the upper hand and the war was ended by the destruction of the country (no parallel).
Hum.
A "last war" or "War to End All Wars" between a group of European-sized nations, which a great deal of the world's modern technology was invented for, boundaries were redrawn on the maps in every area. The original intent of the war was conquering the continent. The economic ramifications wandered from good to horrible, and military technology that is horrible compared to previous eras where everyone fought with good old fashioned weapons in a straight line. A war that was ended by a gigantic explosion so massive and world-shaking that it spawned political tension for years to come.
A war where nobody got the upper hand until a new element was introduced, and even after treaties were signed tension continued, perhaps leading to new wars and armament buildups in a sort of... cold war...
Wait, I think I have an analogous event in human history: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
I'm not saying World War II is perfectly analogous but... it's not as COMPLETELY dissimilar as you would have us believe. In fact, I draw more parallels than I see differences.
Now, focusing on the 998 YK political system, of the four major powers, three of them had lands secede from them. All of them had their allies turn on them at some point, and the relations between Thrane, Karrnath, and Aundair are cool enough to see your breath in. Sure, the Treaty of Thronehold was signed, but.....all of the nations think that the other nations are just preparing for a new offensive.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_war
But players will draw parellels, DMs will draw parallels. It's the nature of the game, and it makes imagining the setting easier. It's not a 'should I' but 'how well can I control it when it happens'
why bother? i mean a player could say "Thrane... gosh... those fanatics sound like Iran... a band of religious leaders who claim to have a direct line to a prophet..."
A DM could say, "yeah, kind of"
OR he could say, "well, they aren't really... because the Prophet isn't in an "Occultation"--anybody can actually see her, not just an ayatollah. And Thrane isn't waging a religious war against the Sovereign Host, or is a branch of that larger religious tradition that's long seen itself as persecuted by that larger tradition. Nor does it have a history that is similar to Iran's. And while Thrane is a theocracy, it is fairly tolerant of followers of the Sovereign Host, although it does hold the BoV's faith as an abomination. So while there are some things that are similar, there's a lot that is different."
I think the latter style helps create more effective characters because it helps make Ebberron more "fantastic"
A "last war" or "War to End All Wars" between a group of European-sized nations, which a great deal of the world's modern technology was invented for, boundaries were redrawn on the maps in every area. The original intent of the war was conquering the continent. The economic ramifications wandered from good to horrible, and military technology that is horrible compared to previous eras where everyone fought with good old fashioned weapons in a straight line. A war that was ended by a gigantic explosion so massive and world-shaking that it spawned political tension for years to come.
A war where nobody got the upper hand until a new element was introduced, and even after treaties were signed tension continued, perhaps leading to new wars and armament buildups in a sort of... cold war...
Wait, I think I have an analogous event in human history: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
I'm not saying World War II is perfectly analogous but... it's not as COMPLETELY dissimilar as you would have us believe. In fact, I draw more parallels than I see differences.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_war
the economic ramifications ranged from bad to horrible to disastrous. the 5N are broke. the only technological advance was the warforged and that line of experimentation has shut down. nobody benefitted from the war except for the arms dealers, the mercenaries, the spies, and the secessionists.
but as far as WW2/Last War, post-Thronehold/Cold Wargoes, the comparison is bad.
1- WW2 was far more destructive than the last war. even in victorious countries, entire cities were destroyed, millions dead... in poland 1/4 of the population was dead, in belarus it was 1/2. 600,000 people died in the tokyo firebombings. there's nothing even close to that in the Last War except for the Mourning. in fact, the last war was so long because it was fought largely on the periphery... it was more like the hundred year's war than WW2... summer campaigns, some relatively calm periods... not the intense year-round fighting that characterizes modern war.
2- We all knew what happened in Hiroshima + Nagasaki. Truman said it. Nobody knows what happened in Cyre. And what happened in Cyre is still going on. So not only is there the continuing threat that it could happen again, but everyone is 100% sure that right now they can't do squat about it. So there's a lot more fear--and it isn't the sort of fear that came up between the USSR and the USA where there was a clear enemy and each side armed itself to the teeth to prevent the other from attacking it. This threat therefore, is EXTERNAL, and it has united the survivors to some extent--it brought them to the table, didn't it? A better parallel might be if alien space bats had dropped a-bombs at the end of the war rather than a B-29.
3- There 4 Nations now. There were 2 Superpowers after the war. No two of the 4 can beat the other two. And no 2 are actually allied anyways. So the situation is a lot less fragile than the Cold War--Aurala can't launch a surprise attack on Karrnath or Thrane and hope to decide the issue in a rapid movement the way some strategists argued for in Germany during the cold war. nobody has the military resources to win, while in the cold war, both powers possessed them.
So, yes, you have countries that fought a devastating war, but it wasn't THAT devastating. Yes, you have a massive disaster, but the cause is unknown and it served to unite adversaries rather than divide allies. and you have a "cold war" but it doesn't have the potential to go hot any time soon.
Can we draw elements? Absolutely, and we should! Specific elements of history, bite-sized chunks that can essentially stand on their own, but can serve as a core to build out from work, because they are at least, somewhat, familiar to our world.
However, the larger the "chunk" you start using, the larger the parallel you begin to draw, and you start to run into larger and larger problems reconciling that with Eberron.
Using flashy-sounding names based on real-world units? Absolutely! In canon, we have the Cyrean Storm Cavaliers (which I have no idea what they are, but I want one!) and the Karrnathi Iron Band. My players loved my designation for Karrnathi undead units (which I got from somewhere, but can't remember): "Risen Patriots".
Incorporating a Gustavus Adolphus into Eberron, or a Rommell, or a Patton? Ehhhhh.....maybe in character traits.....
I find this sort of thing can be really helpful in providing some extra life to a setting, providing the DM with new details she might never have imagined and inspiring further creativity. The real world makes a great base to begin your game on, but your mileage will vary from there.
I don't think it would be necessary to give the players a real-world parallel unless they would all really benefit from such a revelation. Most times they will probably fit their own experiences and expectations into the game.
cheers,
Meshon
Side note: From what I read I did not get the impression Galifar had a uniform culture. In that regards the lightning rail and airships probably came just too late since a more uniform culture might actually have prevented the war from starting in earnest in the first place. The ir'Wains ruled Galifar, but considering they were replaced with each new generation by people from Thronehold I suspect that they did not fully integrated into the local culture nor did they have that big an impact on them.
Drawing paralels helps players and DMs describe the setting. It is a huge amount of work to draw up a culture from scratch, and making it believable is even more difficult. Describing Breland as old Great Brittain takes 5 words, while otherwise it would take a whole book. It might mean old prejudices and cliches get into the game, but that in itself does not need to be bad as long as the players know it is true. Of course, when you look in detail at the setting any comparison fails. RL did not had a continent spanning milenium old stable nation that collapsed in a civil war into 4 powerblocks. RL does not have the Raise Dead ritual, demons walking around or dragons working behind the screen (although I am not sure on that last bit, dragons are crafty ;) ).
Side note: From what I read I did not get the impression Galifar had a uniform culture. In that regards the lightning rail and airships probably came just too late since a more uniform culture might actually have prevented the war from starting in earnest in the first place. The ir'Wains ruled Galifar, but considering they were replaced with each new generation by people from Thronehold I suspect that they did not fully integrated into the local culture nor did they have that big an impact on them.
but here's the problem with drawing a parallel rather than simply inspiration.
I'll say, okay, look, there's five nations.
they are essentially Breland/19th c. England, Thrane/theocratic Iran, Aundair/ancien regime France, Cyre/renaissance Italy, Karrnath/18th c. Prussia.
but then I'll point out something about Karrnath, like... it's riven by an religious turmoil between the SH and the BoV. And there's no corresponding historical event in Prussia. Or that the King never leaves his palace or is seen by anyone, while the Prussian Kings were always in the field, amongst their soldiery. Or that the Karrns have chosen to keep their people at home and do their fighting with the undead while the organizing principle of the Prussian state was universal conscription. the more info there is, the more that the parallels break down.
now, drawing INSPIRATION is different. I can certainly use elements of Louis XVI's France to bring greater life to Aundair... Aurala and her advisors living in splendor over a toiling peasant class. The tremendous appreciation of art and the patronage of artists. The ancient importance of Fairhaven as a center of culture and learning--these are all things that were present in France at the time. But saying that Aundair IS France, when it clearly isn't... well that's dishonest.
It seems to me that a lot of this ties into archetypes, rather than actual parallels. The fact that we are debating whether Thrane can be compared to Iran or to the Vatican speaks for the various ways that a religious state has existed, but then again Eberron is different because magic exists, and supernatural evil exists. The Silver Flame also acknowledges gender equality (being led by a young girl after all
) and doesn't appear all that concerned about consenting-adult sexuality, again very different from the real world counterparts. Yet they're just as corrupt as any other church, and they're still going around burning people at the stake. Yakman, I think you mean the exact same thing as I. When I talk about parallels, I am talking about something identical or similar in essential respects. Details such as the behavior of the typical Prussian king are hardly essential for the broad picture. In short, I am talking about using RL as inspiration and not as a direct copy. Having said that, in the case of Kaius drawing a parellel with Prussia might actually be a very good thing. The impression I get from Karnath is that they fully expect their kings to be in the field amongst their soldiery. The fact that Kaius III is not, is odd and any character from Karnath should realize that. Funnily enough, even the religious friction is very much part of Europe, especially in regions like Germany where you had Catholic and Protestant principalities (and I know Prussia is not Germany). So while I understand your point, I feel your examples are rather badly chosen ;)
P.S. The reason I personally don't want to depict as Iran is not because the political situation is more or less the same. When I make the comparison with RL nations I want to use them to help my me and my players RP their (N)PCs from said regions. I don't know enough about the culture of Iran to help me in any way as using it as a source of inspiration.
i don't think that parallels are there, and i don't think that gms should describe these places as "italy" or "ancien regime france". while it's fine to draw inspiration from RL, to say that these places are "RL with magic and gnomes" leads to assumptions that simply aren't supported, or are downright contradicted, by canon.
Karrnath isn't Prussia. It has nothing to do with Prussia except the winters are cold and the military tradition is strong. Aside from that, I personally don't see anything connecting the two.
Breland isn't 19th c. England. It's a huge, flat place, mostly--not a hilly, forested island. There aren't competing industrial and commercial centers in Breland like there were in England, no emergent towns, no textile industry, no Birmingham cotton mills, no overseas empire... it's just not anything like England.
Now, that's not to say I can't throw in Fagin & the Artful Dodger into Sharn, or have Colonel Klink running a Karrn prison camp. But saying that Karrns are Prussians is just not true,
RL does not have...dragons working behind the screen (although I am not sure on that last bit, dragons are crafty ;) ).
Side note: From what I read I did not get the impression Galifar had a uniform culture. In that regards the lightning rail and airships probably came just too late since a more uniform culture might actually have prevented the war from starting in earnest in the first place. The ir'Wains ruled Galifar, but considering they were replaced with each new generation by people from Thronehold I suspect that they did not fully integrated into the local culture nor did they have that big an impact on them.
Ahhhh! Ahhh! The Illuminati are Dragons! Ahhhhh!
Now, concerning cultural homogeneity, i got done reading a book about the industriliazitation of the French countryside between 1870 and 1914, and everybody in my class was shocked as to how nonhomogenous French culture was at the start of the period, especially when compared to the traditional depiction of the Napoleonic wars (clouds of French skirmishers motivated by nationalistic feelings).
Eventually, the teacher reminded us of how many governments rose and fell between 1815 and 1870, and pointed out that with each one, the authority they extended into the countryside would be retracted and then re-established, resulting in isolation and insularity among the peasantry.
I'm not saying that there's a direct parallel, but it's an interesting thing to keep in mind, especially in a PoL setting.
Karrnath isn't Prussia. It has nothing to do with Prussia except the winters are cold and the military tradition is strong. Aside from that, I personally don't see anything connecting the two.
Breland isn't 19th c. England. It's a huge, flat place, mostly--not a hilly, forested island. There aren't competing industrial and commercial centers in Breland like there were in England, no emergent towns, no textile industry, no Birmingham cotton mills, no overseas empire... it's just not anything like England.
Now, that's not to say I can't throw in Fagin & the Artful Dodger into Sharn, or have Colonel Klink running a Karrn prison camp. But saying that Karrns are Prussians is just not true.
I'm totally with you here. I mean, let's look at Prussia in the Seven Years War: They're, generally, fairly busy monkey-stomping everybody, and if you agree even a bit with Cittino, Prussians make great use of maneuver warfare, whereas Karrn doctrine according to Forges of War portrays them as very blunt, straightforward, and inflexible. War stuff aside, Prussia also had an infamous rivalry with Austria; the teacher I'm TAing for told the class that, "If a war broke out in Europe, you knew two things were going to be true: nothing major will be decided, and Prussia and Austria are gonna fight." Who is Karrnath's Austria?
Breland, too, suffers from trying to compare it to England. As the Yak points out, there's a severe lack of the sort of economic structures that make up the character of 18th and 19th century England (though, to be fair, Sharn does possess a good deal of industrial capacity). Also, Britain was always plagued by problems with the Irish and Scots trying to up and rebel; as late as 1745, there was a Jackobite rising in Scotland. One of the reasons the Irish aren't too keen on World War I is because of the separatist movements that tried to stage an armed rebellion. What nationalistic groups are causing discontent in Breland? Democratic Parliamentarians don't count.
I'm sure that we could go on and find massive, gaping flaws in any comparisons of Eberron to Earth. Oh, and comparing Aurala to Louis XIV or XVI is, in my eyes, the height of folly, as Aurala actually cares for her people. This is why I'm adamant in not comparing Eberron to the real world. It just gives the wrong impression.
I'm totally with you here. I mean, let's look at Prussia in the Seven Years War: They're, generally, fairly busy monkey-stomping everybody, and if you agree even a bit with Cittino, Prussians make great use of maneuver warfare, whereas Karrn doctrine according to Forges of War portrays them as very blunt, straightforward, and inflexible.
then again, by the time of the Revolutionary Wars, they were using surveying equipment on the battlefield to make sure their lines were PERFECTLY straight...
My point was simply that players will draw parallels, they will make comparisons to other things they know, and all we as DMs can control is what the are drawing comparisons to.
Whether it's comparing the Eldeen Reaches to Fangorn Forest, or Sharn to London, or the Boromar Clan to the Italian Mafia, or the Path of Inspiration to Buddhism, connections will be drawn. This is how we understand things, and how we make mental shorthand and emotional connections. I've read information on the Path of Inspiration many many times, but for the life of me I can't remember it. But, if I memorize "Path of Inspiration = Buddhism with Quori instead of Nibbana" I not only can memorize the exceptions of the Path of Inspiration better (memorizing exceptions is easier than remembering the whole on its own) but if I'm forced to make things up on the fly, as most DMs often are, I can just quote my knowledge of Buddhism and pretend like it's true for the setting.
Now, my comparison--Eberron to 19th Century Europe--has some flaws, as people have pointed out. But if those people legitimately think that I was aiming to say "This is all there is to it! No exceptions! I've found the perfect comparison" you are dolts.
My point, and here it is in very simple words: 19th Century Europe is a much smaller leap in terms of parallels to Eberron than the Points of Light setting is. With Points of Light, I find myself saying over, and over, and over this exception and that. With 19th Century Europe, I'm not so vain as to think I wouldn't have exceptions to state and clarifications to make--but my assertion that there would be less clarifactions and exceptions than the Points of Light setting would create.
If people want to argue, you could at least stay closer to on-topic and argue whether or not my actual point is right or not: Is 19th Century Europe "closer" to Eberron (AKA fewer 'it's like this, except this') than the Points of Light setting? And if not, do you have a closer comparison? For the WHOLE setting? It's all well and good to say "Thrane is more like Iran" but you're making an exception, which is specifically not what I'm looking for: I'm looking for the best possible 'base' to make exceptions off of, not what the exceptions would be.
And I completely disagree with the numerous people here who have asserted "You shouldn't be making any connections to the real world! Eberron is its own setting which exists without any sort of basis of comparison!"
...no, no it isn't. Sorry. That's not how fiction writing works. All settings must have connections to things the players already know, or else they fail. Differences between what people already know and what is present in the game/on the screen/on the page must be exceptions to the norm. All I'm asking is if explaining Eberron would be better suited having 'what people already know' be "19th century europe" or "points of light" or a better third alternative.
All I'm asking is if explaining Eberron would be better suited having 'what people already know' be "19th century europe" or "points of light" or a better third alternative.
a 3rd alternative is Eberron.
i dunno if you read him, but there's this great fantasy author named George R. R. Martin. He has this wonderfully detailed world, and in it, there's this country called "Dorne." Much of the rest of his world is close to one to one parallels from the British Isles and Scandinavia, but Dorne really sticks out because of its unique geography and culture.
So, the story goes that he's at some event and his fans are asking him, 'so is Dorne like spain? or more like morocco?'
and he says, "Dorne is just Dorne."
And I say that Eberron is just Eberron. Now, are there things pulled from RL? Yes. But they are combined and mishmashed and woven into a much larger world history that any particular country or culture no longer has much to do with RL.
You seem to be mostly on track for how I see Eberron in my mind, but instead of being vast points of light, I see the 4 remaining nations as points of grey. Some places approach light, most areas well-traveled are pretty safe, but it gets dicier as the grey gets darker. And sometimes they contrast greatly, because shadows can be darker and are more defined when the light is brighter.
I Definitely like the idea that everyone is a little dirty - they're owned by the Boromar, or Killed someone with friendly fire in the War, or cheat on their taxes, or were Dragon Below cultists in their youth.
right on. That's pretty much where I see the darkness lying in the 5 nations region, for the most part. in the cities themselves, right next to the light, often in the same organization, or even person. there are places and circumstances where it's more clear cut, but in the civilized areas you don't know where the person next to you truly stands.
avon: of course, I can always interpret a world how I wish, but it is rather informative to have other views, including that of setting designers/creator.
topic: nearly everything we imagine is influenced by those things which we witness, either directly or through third parties. Eberron is not an exception to this. Breland has many points of comparison with England. This probably isn't even accidental. The point is, the DM can use that comparison when describing Breland, and a player can quickly get a feel for what kind of character might come from there. how they might talk, how they might view members of other classes, what their feelings might be toward the current state of the government, etc. And they probably wouldn't end up making a character that is innaproppriate for a Brelish background.
However, if the player has PoL stuck in his head, it may be much harder for him to make a metropolitan Brelish character.
so, OP, I think you've struck on a good idea. As long as you don't go overboard with your comparisons, and point out, and remind players of, the differences, you'll be ok.
I've tried using how Eberron differs from FR to give people a feel for the setting, but it's a somewhat tiring process. use the keywords, like fantasy noir, psuedo steampunk, post-war, age of exploration, etc. they help.
possibly, try giving the players examples of the types of characters they can make in eberron that don't work as well elsewhere, and campaigns and adventures that can take place in eberron that don't work as well elsewhere.
Well, I think that Yak and I are arguing that, if your approach is to just describe exceptions, there will be booku exceptions. Too many to make it worthwhile, methinks.
It all depends on the details you focus on and the number of actual parallels you draw. Personally, I find it odd that you equate drawing parallels is the same as making it exactly the same. I agree that you should not go too far in making the comparisons. Hence my thought that the difference in opinion is more the result of a difference in definitions.
Regardless, no game book goes into much detail about the culture of a nation and the personalities of its citizens. It is as Dieffenbachj says, drawing parellels with RL on specific points is a great help for people to immerse themselves in the campaign with a minimum of fuss. Of course, there is a book of exceptions, but at least that is better then the complete encyclopia Brittanica of similarities. In fact, by making those comparisons it is a great inspiration for the things the game books do NOT mention. For example, you mention Ireland and Scotland as being different from Breland. Is it? I might very well compare the relation between Droaam and Breland as between Ireland and England and use that as a the starting point and by doing so I have already drawn a parallel between the two.
As for the differences in culture within one nation, being a European I am well aware of it ;) In fact, France is a rather homonogeous example. You just have to look at the Turkey, Russia and Austria/Hungry to get a few examples of RL empires that spanned much bigger cultural differences and who in case of Turkey and Austria collapsed as part of a violent continent spanning war (WWI).
And even though I don't know much about Europe in general during the 18th century I think that the Grand History of Eberron has drawn an interesting parallel there, for those who can use it. To me it feels like the 18th century (specifically the early 1700s) work better for getting the balance between fantasy and industrialized society that Eberron can contain. I think the 19th century might be too far towards the latter for my liking. However, that period could work very well to give a different, more civilized feel to Khorvaire, while still leaving other parts of the world wild and dark.
cheers,
Meshon
I always like to think of the Last War in a different context. Instead of "the war to end all wars", I view as a simpler "the last war to have occured". Another one's gonna happen, just likely not until the next generation of humans comes along.
Sharn seems more like London (as others have said) more because it reminds of the fires in the 17th Century that burned London to the ground, and IIRC, Sharn's come down twice.
Secret societies (or societies in general)? Hmmm.
Cabinet of Faces or The Chamber = The Illuminati (hard to decide)
The Shaarat'khesh = The Ninja
House Phiarlan = The Hashshashin (sort of, House Thuranni might be better as it's smaller)
Valenar = The Saracens
Church of the Silver Flame = The Knights Templar
Order of the Emerald Claw = The IRA (on the surface, they seem like them, anyway)
I always like to think of the Last War in a different context. Instead of "the war to end all wars", I view as a simpler "the last war to have occured". Another one's gonna happen, just likely not until the next generation of humans comes along.
can't agree with this. the Last War was the largest war to have occurred in over 900 years. It split an Empire that had lasted that entire time. It almost destroyed Galifaran civilization. It was big, real big, beyond anyone's imagining.
Sharn seems more like London (as others have said) more because it reminds of the fires in the 17th Century that burned London to the ground, and IIRC, Sharn's come down twice.
Sharn is Charles Dickens' London, F. Scott Fitzgerald's Manhattan, Paolo Soleri's Arcology, David Wingrove's Chung Kuo, and every other mega-city run amok. There's enough color there to run any sort of city campaign that one could want.
I always like to think of the Last War in a different context. Instead of "the war to end all wars", I view as a simpler "the last war to have occured". Another one's gonna happen, just likely not until the next generation of humans comes along.
can't agree with this. the Last War was the largest war to have occurred in over 900 years. It split an Empire that had lasted that entire time. It almost destroyed Galifaran civilization. It was big, real big, beyond anyone's imagining.
And there's nothing wrong with thinking that way. But if you look at Eberron's history, it's pretty much defined by conflict and war. The Quori-Giant War eradicated the giant civilization, the Daelkyr War decimated the Dhakaani Empire, the War of the Mark destroyed Sharn, and the Last War effectively ended Galifar as we know it.
If history shows anything, it shows the wars in Eberron end with something new coming along, be it good or bad. Galifar was not meant to last, nor will the peace established. Things are too tense for there NOT to be a conflict. War is always inevitable in Eberron, whether people like it or not. Not now, obviously, but it wouldn't be a shock to see another large-scale war after a generation or two. Perhaps a war between the dragonmarked houses is next.
Case in point: Nothing lasts forever. NOTHING!!
I always like to think of the Last War in a different context. Instead of "the war to end all wars", I view as a simpler "the last war to have occured". Another one's gonna happen, just likely not until the next generation of humans comes along.
can't agree with this. the Last War was the largest war to have occurred in over 900 years. It split an Empire that had lasted that entire time. It almost destroyed Galifaran civilization. It was big, real big, beyond anyone's imagining.
And there's nothing wrong with thinking that way. But if you look at Eberron's history, it's pretty much defined by conflict and war. The Quori-Giant War eradicated the giant civilization, the Daelkyr War decimated the Dhakaani Empire, the War of the Mark destroyed Sharn, and the Last War effectively ended Galifar as we know it.
If history shows anything, it shows the wars in Eberron end with something new coming along, be it good or bad. Galifar was not meant to last, nor will the peace established. Things are too tense for there NOT to be a conflict. War is always inevitable in Eberron, whether people like it or not. Not now, obviously, but it wouldn't be a shock to see another large-scale war after a generation or two. Perhaps a war between the dragonmarked houses is next.
Case in point: Nothing lasts forever. NOTHING!!
The Giant-Quori war was 30.000 years ago. the daelkyr-dhakaani war was what, 10.000 years ago. A LONG time past the setting, events not really understood in the present.
The War of the Mark, while terrible, was not nearly as destructive as the Last War, and it occurred well over 1.000 years past. A Long, Long, Long, Long, Long, time past.
Looking at the Last War as anything but is hardly an invalid viewpoint.
and yet, that annoyingly naive queen wants to start a new war to put herself on the throne of Galifar. And there are conflicts and rivalry and tensions that could easily set off a new war that could, in a sense, be WW2 to The Last War's WW1.
Looking at the Last War as anything but is hardly an invalid viewpoint.
no, but saying that Eberron's history is characterized by large-scale warfare is. Peace is far more prevalent in Khorvaire, Sarlona, and even Argonnessen than war.
However, has anybody ever read the Heirs of Ash trilogy? If you haven't, it's a really good trilogy. One of the themes, though, is this notion that for some people, the Last War is all they knew, and as such, think that this new state of peace is an unnatural state, and that war is the natural state of Eberron.
That looks like some good villain thinking to me.
One of the themes, though, is this notion that for some people, the Last War is all they knew, and as such, think that this new state of peace is an unnatural state, and that war is the natural state of Eberron.
It's something I called out slightly in the Queen of Stone (in the relations between the Thranes and Brelish) and tried to bring up in the 4E ECG as well. The Last War lasted a century. For humans and any race with a similar lifespan, there's only a few people with living memory of Galifar. Beyond this, no one WON the Last War. Grievances weren't settled. The Treaty of Thronehold was based solely on fear: no one knows what the Mourning was, what caused it, if it could happen again. There's a lot of different ways the war could have been responsible (too much war magic?)... and if it is an effect that can be controlled and replicated, everyone wants to be the one to harness it or at least develop a reliable defense against it. But the Last War has only been "over" for two years... whereas most human families have been fighting the war for generations.
The fervor FOR the war had certainly faded for some; again, with no living memory of Galifar, there were many who no longer had an interest in reuniting the nations under one ruler. But if you were a Brelish soldier stationed on the Thrane front, just three years ago you were fighting Thranes. And let's not even get into Thaliost. The scars and echoes of the war are certainly a theme I see as alive and well in Khorvaire.
And let's not even get into Thaliost. The scars and echoes of the war are certainly a theme I see as alive and well in Khorvaire.
One of the things I did for my campaign was have a play written by that Deva chick about Thaliost. I just gave a summary of the play, but I envisioned it as a tragedy where the older generations were intensely pro-Aundair, while the younger generation were supporter of Thrane. Much tragedy and woe, with the strong themes of nationalism, the cold war, the uncertainty, the scars, and soforth, but....my players didn't pay attention and established that their characters were getting drunk. C'est la vi.