Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mystrich Jun 18, 2008 1:09:34	Ok, one thing to say before the post, has everyone given up on 3.5 here but me? There isn't one post that isn't 4e anymore on the front page of the forums. Anyway, I want to be either a Valenar or an Aernal Elf in an upcoming game, but I can't think of a decent backstory for either. Especially for a Valenar. Neither seems like they enjoy anything outside of their own culture, and neither, especially the Valenar, seems like they could fit outside their own culture either. Suggestions for getting one off it's continent to adventure in Khorvaire?
#2 dragom Jun 18, 2008 1:34:14	Yes, And people don't have to fit into someone elses culture to travel. You can allways cheap right out and say "You are seeking rumors of the lost . The family will be discraced until it can be relocated."
#3 skrap-san Jun 18, 2008 3:42:00	Or you could do as my player did. My great great great great grand dad was a famous explorer and now I'm of to find some cool stuff in honour of his name.... Or the all time famous, I was kicked out of home and cant come back until I prove myself worthy...
#4 octaviusiii Jun 18, 2008 21:31:26	I haven't given up on 3.5, nor will I until whatever gaming group I join gives up on it themselves. The problem is, though, I'm definitely not playing, either. Just observing! Playing a Valenar elf outside of his culture might be a great change. Just because he doesn't fit in doesn't mean he won't be playable in a group; it just means you're going to have to be more conscious of your roleplaying.
#5 mystrich Jun 18, 2008 23:07:04	I suppose the explorer idea works, but I'm not a huge fan of the "I was kicked out and want to redeem myself" characters that are in EVERYTHING. And people don't have to fit into someone elses culture to travel. I know this, but the specific cultures are was would stop traveling. Aernal hate non-Aernal, and even more so, non-elves, because they find it very hard to read their emotions, where as Aernal elves can read each other well. The Valenar elves believe bloodshed of anyone and everyone is the best way to honor their ancestors who fought the giants.
#6 thanael Jun 19, 2008 12:04:36	Perhaps he was sent out on some business?
#7 olween Jun 20, 2008 11:29:26	Well; he could have been captured doing a raid. Then, rather than being executed, he was shown respect by his captors. That leads him to doubt what he was taught about the hateful foreigners (and spiked his curiosity). Now he is travelling to understand the world and the other races better...
#8 firimar_elerrino Jun 20, 2008 15:39:07	I suppose the explorer idea works, but I'm not a huge fan of the "I was kicked out and want to redeem myself" characters that are in EVERYTHING. I know this, but the specific cultures are was would stop traveling. Aernal hate non-Aernal, and even more so, non-elves, because they find it very hard to read their emotions, where as Aernal elves can read each other well. The Valenar elves believe bloodshed of anyone and everyone is the best way to honor their ancestors who fought the giants. While the Aerenal aren't likely to be open with members of the other races if they haven't had a chance to build trust and experience with them, I wouldn't label them xenophobes. If you haven't already, try reading Keith Baker's Dragonshard articles on the cultures. He's the creator, after all, and usually has a lot of good ideas to present that really expand upon the ECS. Many younger Aereni strike out from their homes on the island continent in an effort to experience a fuller, more heroic life, gathering artifacts and experience in the hope that they may be chosen, when their first life comes to an end, to be raised as deathless beings and continue their existence toward further enlightenment and perfection. The Valenar seek to honor their ancestors not through ceremony and intimate knowledge of their predecessors, but by living as they did in the present. One whose ancestor lived a life of valor and adventure, or who fought and died in a battlefield of the Last War, would look upon a life on the road and a glorious death at the hands of worthy foes a beautiful and reverent expression and continuation of their forebears' legacy.
#9 elrodian Jun 20, 2008 20:38:48	Well my main PC is a member of house Phiarlan and she was born on Aerenal and her mark show up when she was little as well with her magical powers so she learned all the magic she could on Aerenal and then was sent to the twelve were she meet her two best firends (part of the group) and they lived in Fairhaven becaues her mother was onces a Aundair noble but move back to Aerenal. Now for a Valenar i have some ideals about it. I have been doing work on the capital (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=16047887#post16047887) and i came up with a group that could be real good for this, The Mistress of the Desserts. I will give story here but it is also in the link: This Organization is a group of female Valenar war-wizards that have one of two of the same patron ancestor. During the last war few were every in the city because most were out in the field studying ruin in the interest of Valenar, help build or rebuild forts, or help war-bands in battles. When in the field the Mistress have had a lot of opportunities to get there hand on magic. Form the arcane magic of Cyre to the different object found in the Lhazaar Principalities. These items are taken back to there headquarters and study. so you could have it that the elf when to look for new magic becaues she can not do it when there is no real battles. Also you can have them part of this group. The Nine Shadows: The nine shadows are a circle of nine necromancers that helps each other in there projects. They collect dark magic books and necromantic books in a “public” library, just for the nine of them. The Shadows do not just help them selves, they help other dark wizards and necromancers as lone as they give something over which could be object, information, money or darker things. The nine are mostly elves that do not like how Valenar or Aerenal looks on there necromancies. i hope this helped
#10 Gurv Jun 21, 2008 19:51:14	Anyway, I want to be either a Valenar or an Aernal Elf in an upcoming game, but I can't think of a decent backstory for either. Especially for a Valenar. Neither seems like they enjoy anything outside of their own culture, and neither, especially the Valenar, seems like they could fit outside their own culture either. Suggestions for getting one off it's continent to adventure in Khorvaire? I have to ask. If you don't think that either culture would want to adventure, why do you want to play one? What is it that makes either of those cultures attractive to you, if you don't see them as the adventurous types? While I can see your point about most Aereni elves not seeking this sort of thing, how can you say that about the Valenar? The whole culture is based around seeking combat and other ways to prove themselves! All they ever do is adventure! Decide what sort of thing you want to do with your character, create a name of an ancestor who was renowned for doing that, and then do it while shouting about bringing honor to your namesake! The Aereni are a bit more of the stay at home types, certainly. But they have plenty of reason to stumble into adventure. They're very religious, for one thing. So any of them might be dealing with some threat the Undying Court has pinpointed. That could range from seeking that lost relic, to stopping some undead threat. Anything the Blood of Vol does could draw enough attention that they might send a young champion. Same goes for draconic activity. More importantly, Aereni elves feel the need to prove themselves worthy of joining the deathless. I can easily imagine an elf who simply does not excel at the stay-at-home stuff and desperately seeks another way to make himself worthy. Serving the elven people abroad could be the way. Since all elves are concerned with the past, and they all hail from Xen'drik, you could find yourself there for any number of reasons, whether you be Valenar or Aereni. And both groups recognize the activities on Khorvaire as potential threats, or at least as a volatile situation that needs watching. Basically, you can be the eyes and ears for whoever you are loyal to. One thing that really impressed me about Eberron was that you almost never had to look for a reason to adventure. The reasons are all right in front of you.
#11 mystrich Jun 22, 2008 0:19:27	While I can see your point about most Aereni elves not seeking this sort of thing, how can you say that about the Valenar? The whole culture is based around seeking combat and other ways to prove themselves! All they ever do is adventure! Decide what sort of thing you want to do with your character, create a name of an ancestor who was renowned for doing that, and then do it while shouting about bringing honor to your namesake! Except, that's the problem with Valenar. I'd murder my party members, then go on a killing spree through Sharn if I just was looking for battle. Also, the reason is because I find the flavor of both extremly interesting and like it would be fun to RP.
#12 mistress_of_mockery Jun 22, 2008 7:02:24	Except, that's the problem with Valenar. I'd murder my party members, then go on a killing spree through Sharn if I just was looking for battle. Also, the reason is because I find the flavor of both extremly interesting and like it would be fun to RP. Where's the honour in that? Unless killing everything that moves somehow honours your ancestor, I don't think a Valenar would go on such a crazed spree. The chief goal of a Valenar is to bring honour to themselves and their ancestors and many Valenar follow in the footsteps of their ancestors. Depending on where the campaign starts there are many hooks that could draw in a Valenar. If your game starts off in the Mournlands (or heading there) perhaps your father died as a mercenary early in the Last War and was buried with the only zaelshin tu of your revered ancestor. Maybe your ancestor fought giants or drow in Xen'drik and you feel there would be no greater honour than doing the same. Maybe you think slaying a dragon would be an even further honour; besting your ancestor (if you're headed to Argonessen or Q'Barra). Maybe your ancestor came to Khorvaire looking for something but the details are sketchy. Help wouldn't be bad as you look for this something (help the party with a few adventures and maybe, eventually, they'll help you find this something). I particularly like this one because it leaves things open. Say you're running Expedition to Castle Ravenloft (as an example), it can be the Sunsword your ancestor was searching for. If you're running Keep on the Shadowfell it could be Show the Aecris
#13 ellorin Jun 22, 2008 8:35:52	Never forget the Dakhaani(and, failing that, Darguun) goblinoids. They make great targets for Valenar enmity too.
#14 Gurv Jun 22, 2008 8:39:32	Except, that's the problem with Valenar. I'd murder my party members, then go on a killing spree through Sharn if I just was looking for battle. Also, the reason is because I find the flavor of both extremly interesting and like it would be fun to RP. As the Mistress says, that doesn't sound like a Valenar elf at all. They're supposed to prove themselves. Not just kill random people. They should seek worthy foes, just like those who faced their namesake. If your ancestor fought against the hobgoblins, then so should you. If you ancestor mastered the art of channeling magic through a longbow, then so should you. Perhaps there is a relic of the ancestor that you can find. Maybe there is a foe he could not defeat, and you wish to accomplish that goal in his name. Or maybe he claimed to have defeated something or someone but was never able to prove it...can you find that proof and bring honor to his name?
#15 ellorin Jun 22, 2008 14:27:35	They should seek worthy foes, just like those who faced their namesake. If your ancestor fought against the hobgoblins, then so should you. If you ancestor mastered the art of channeling magic through a longbow, then so should you. Perhaps there is a relic of the ancestor that you can find. Maybe there is a foe he could not defeat, and you wish to accomplish that goal in his name. Or maybe he claimed to have defeated something or someone but was never able to prove it...can you find that proof and bring honor to his name? Another thought is to reverse things. Suppose that our Valenar unearths evidence whule adventuring in Xen'drik that actually discredits the supposed heroic ancestor. Instead of a champion, the ancestor was a coward that claimed the fame for someone else's glorious deeds. What then?
#16 mystrich Jun 23, 2008 0:07:13	As the Mistress says, that doesn't sound like a Valenar elf at all. They're supposed to prove themselves. Not just kill random people. They should seek worthy foes, just like those who faced their namesake. If your ancestor fought against the hobgoblins, then so should you. If you ancestor mastered the art of channeling magic through a longbow, then so should you. Perhaps there is a relic of the ancestor that you can find. Maybe there is a foe he could not defeat, and you wish to accomplish that goal in his name. Or maybe he claimed to have defeated something or someone but was never able to prove it...can you find that proof and bring honor to his name? Where's the honour in that? Unless killing everything that moves somehow honours your ancestor, I don't think a Valenar would go on such a crazed spree. The chief goal of a Valenar is to bring honour to themselves and their ancestors and many Valenar follow in the footsteps of their ancestors. Then how do you explain the raids on the Talenta Plains and Karrnath attacking anyone who moves? And the Valenar style is described as sneaking up on and attacking, where's the honor in backstabbing as soon as the enemy turns his back?
#17 dragom Jun 23, 2008 2:00:29	Then how do you explain the raids on the Talenta Plains and Karrnath attacking anyone who moves? And the Valenar style is described as sneaking up on and attacking, where's the honor in backstabbing as soon as the enemy turns his back? When you stab someone in the back the boast isn't that your strong or fair. It's that your an excellent liar and quite clever. There is honour in those two things. Our cultural background may blind us to these things but there is.
#18 Gurv Jun 23, 2008 5:50:37	Then how do you explain the raids on the Talenta Plains and Karrnath attacking anyone who moves? And the Valenar style is described as sneaking up on and attacking, where's the honor in backstabbing as soon as the enemy turns his back? Very simple. I don't. I don't explain it that way at all. The Valenar are at war with the Talenta and with Karrnath. War is a way of life for the Valenar, and the realities of war are accepted fact to them. The perception that the Valenar do atrocious things to their neighbors is a very real one. To the Karrns, the elves have no reason to attack as they do, no need to be so brutal. But to the elves, for whom war is an assumption, they are acting in a perfectly acceptable war- the way people at war act. The fact that the Karrns don't want a war is irrelevant. And you're letting your own cultural values shade your opinions on the Valenar's war techniques. Stealth is a skill, and one which is difficult to master. Combined with the intelligence to outsmart an opponent, the knowledge of your terrain, and lessons passed down since Xen'drik, you have a warrior who is far more than a man with a sharp piece of metal. Obviously, the victims of this kind of warfare see it as "backstabbing". But to the elves, the frontal attacks made by the humans seems as foolish as the line-up-and-shoot style war that we Americans used at the beginning of our Civil War. The Valenar are proud that they have defeated armies with only a few handfuls of their warriors. It proves that the techniques they have honed for generations are superior.
#19 mystrich Jun 27, 2008 14:35:39	Except the Valenar signed the peace treaty as well. They know that there isn't a war, they fight because fighting honors their ancestors. Which is what I was trying to say. Why is attacking Karrnath and Talenta any different than if a Valenar was in another part of the world and attacking someone in that part. Attacking anyone outside of Karrnath or Talenta is dishonorable, but attacking random people in Karrnath or Talenta is not.
#20 cloud_divider Jun 30, 2008 22:03:01	Then how do you explain the raids on the Talenta Plains and Karrnath attacking anyone who moves? And the Valenar style is described as sneaking up on and attacking, where's the honor in backstabbing as soon as the enemy turns his back? The honor in those raids is that you are weakening your enemies, and testing your strength to prove their weakness. Are wolves dishonorable because a pack of them harries a herd of deer, bison, or other animal (or for amusement, let's say wolves versus some small herd dinosaurs)? Pursuing their enemies, and forcing them to expend their resources weakens them and is all in preparation for that final killing stroke. How can there be no honor in striking down an enemy where they are weakest? It proves your cunning and skill in finding their weakness, and again proves your strength. Furthermore, there is significant value in subterfuge that spares unnecessary bloodshed. If a Valenar strike team can infiltrate the enemy command emcampment and sever the head of the enemy army (by assassinating their leadership, literal severing of heads or not), how can there NOT be honor in that? It's like counting coup. Now, all that said, the Valenar don't want to kill EVERYONE. They're certainly savvy, and I can certainly imagine that their loyalty is relatively transient - opportunistic, even. But perhaps what it is most of all, is that it proves their cunning. Think of it as being like comparing the virtues of Chinese, Korean, and Japanese warrior cultures. I won't go into Japan - I think everyone's got enough familiarity to make the point. But with China and Korea, individual cunning (to potentially include trickery) is just as much a virtue as raw bravery or ultimate loyalty in the samurai culture... Anyway, as far as character ideas: Valenar: A spy could certainly be interesting as a "hidden agenda." He travels the land gathering intelligence on what's going on in the other nations. It could even be relatively innocuous intel gathering, too. Running off with a band of adventurers to take out some bandits is achieves these goals - info on who the bandits are, individual strength, and ideology can be very valuable to the Valenar. Proving out their presence and strength tells a great deal about the overall security state of the nation that they're in. Intrusion into the normal campaign might even be fairly minor - the occasional passed note to the GM describing a coded missive sent back home, for instance. Or how about a Valenar that's gone through a bit of a crisis of faith. He failed somehow (fled battle, or did something that makes him feel distanced from Valenar culture), and he's basically gone AWOL. He's trying to outrun his past (whatever it was). Maybe he's not exactly looking for redemption. Maybe he was with a Valenar troop that massacred a Cyran village during the last months of the War, and his conscience just hasn't been able to let him forget it. His conscience may be wrong, too. Maybe he's not seeing the same "big picture" his warchief did - the humans do breed awfully fast compared to elves...what if that youth that was cut down grew up to be a great general of men? 5 or 10 or even 20 years is a lifetime among men, but it would only be in the blink of an eye in Elven terms... Aerenal: Others have already hit on the "prove myself worthy to join the Deathless". That one's a bit obvious. How about an "angsty youth" (of merely 150) who's decided to stick it to his elders by getting...friendly with the enemy (ie the Blood of Vol, or other undead). Think "teenager gone punk/goth/gangster," for no reason other than it would cheese off his parents. Or the one who's decided that he's had it with the pressures of everyone else climbing over each other to prove themselves worthy of joining the Deathless... He's basically run away to Khorvaire to distance himself from that whole scene. He's basically on walkabout in Khorvaire, an elven hippie of sorts. Perhaps Deathless-life in Aerenal is all he's ever known, and he wants to really know if there isn't more to life. Or, y'know, maybe he's a Deathless Aerenal missionary, gone off to Khorvaire to try and teach all of those "lost tribes" of Urban Elves about their cultural heritage and birthright and stuff.