| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1Elton74Nov 12, 2010 16:11:06 | I'm probably preaching to the choir here. But I picked up D&D Essentials and Eberron's Player Guide completely out of Frustration over the fact that B&N wasn't carrying: Symbols of an Alien Sky, Remembering the End of the World, The Electric Universe, Thunderbolts of the Gods, and How to Create 3D Like a Superhero. 4 of these had to do with the Plasma Universe Theory (I'm a Big Bang Malcontent), and the last had to do with working with Vue to create stunning 3D vistas (and indoor scenes). I didn't want to leave B&N empty handed, nor did I want to buy Gift Cards for myself for a PC game that I have (it aint worth it). So I went for my backup plan. I picked up the EPG because I promised myself too, and I picked up D&D Essentials for reasons of review. I'm almost tempted to run a 4e campaign. Review of the Eberron Player's Guide |
| #2OgiwanNov 12, 2010 17:52:40 | You didn't mention the map in the back at all. I am a *huge* fan of that map. The intro adventure has some really cool encounter ideas too. |
| #3Elton74Nov 12, 2010 18:26:17 | Ogiwan, i haven't bought a copy of the Eberron DMG yet. This is the Player's Guide, dude. I'm pretty sure the Player's Guide didn't come with a map attached to it's back cover. |
| #4OgiwanNov 13, 2010 9:16:02 | Oops. I sit corrected. I'm just so used to GMing Eberron that I kinda forget about the EPG, and just remember the ECG. |
| #5accuserNov 13, 2010 10:03:27 | Not to be snarky, but why would someone who doesn't like 4th Edition and who can't keep that bias out of a review decide to purchase and review a 4th Edition book? Of what use is that review to anyone who likes 4th Edition - which is to say, the book's audience? |
| #6Elton74Nov 13, 2010 10:05:32 | Oops. I sit corrected. I'm just so used to GMing Eberron that I kinda forget about the EPG, and just remember the ECG. I guess it happens. :D I didn't pick up the Eberron Campaign Guide because of inflation. Although $39.99 is pittance compared to what's going to happen in the future ($129.99?). because of that, I felt that the original Eberron campaign setting book still has value to me. I picked up D&D Essentials instead. I felt kind of let down that Essentials gave you all the rules to run a D&D 4e game, but not the other goodies. Oh well. I feel that Dungeons and Dragons is entering the winter of its life, judging by how much D&D 4.e is evolving. Some one on the 6d6 blog felt it was happening and made his case by showing that certain brands has a shelf life. At first, I rejected it, thought it was nonsense. But as I watched how Wizards made vain attempts to gain my generation's attention (Red Box) but written such for a different demographic (our children); I felt that the blogger on 6d6 made some sense. Pretty soon, Dungeons and Dragons won't be produced as a brand any more. After watching some vlogs on the subject of 4e by people of my generation, the Feelings are pretty much the same. If there is going to be a 5th Edition, it will be the last edition of Dungeons and Dragons. Then you will get a whole different RPG with a whole different brand. Pretty soon, for the remainder of the (c) term, Dungeons and Dragons will be a footnote in our entertainment industry. Two or three paragraphs written in the history books. And if the Copyright Maximalists have their way, no one will ever know what the game is like or how it is played as all original copies of D&D will be destroyed and ravaged by time and the digital copies will be destroyed through entropy as well. Unless, of course, you pirate them off the internet. :D |
| #7Elton74Nov 13, 2010 10:25:59 | Not to be snarky, but why would someone who doesn't like 4th Edition and who can't keep that bias out of a review decide to purchase and review a 4th Edition book? Of what use is that review to anyone who likes 4th Edition - which is to say, the book's audience? It is quite a mystery isn't it? I was tempted to buy something else of an even more /wastes my time/ kind of nature since I was so incredibly frustrated over not finding anything I wanted to buy yesterday. If you knew my thoughts as I went out to purchase what I was originally looking for, you'd know the reason. ![]() Well, now that I have it I can do some system conversions to some systems I really enjoy playing. While scanning the software section, they did not have one book on how to use Vue properly. So I went to the Astronomy section so I can do my own independent research on the Plasma Universe theory. They didn't have anything for that either. Feeling utterly let down, I went into the DVD section. Nothing was there either. ![]() I don't like 4th Edition becase although it has the Dungeons and Dragons brand, its an entirely different game. It's also evolving faster and much quicker than the last two. It's missing all the magic, the wonder, and the excitement of previous editions. Dungeons and Dragons is in the winter of its life as a brand. When it finally dies, your great grandchildren will never ever know how exciting D&D is . Unless they illegally download it off the internet. Well, if there is an internet in your great grandchildren's time. There is a faction in our government that feels more threatened by the Internet than Wizards of the Coast's Legal Department. |
| #8accuserNov 14, 2010 17:47:38 | In other news, the sky is falling. |
| #9jancariusseiryujinnNov 22, 2010 14:38:15 | I pretty much agree with Elton. I feel like the meat of Eberron was stripped from it's bones in 4th ed, and I continue to run my game on 3.5 lore (and Eladrin/Elves are both just elves, dragonborn are pretty much an Argonessen-only race, and most of the ridiculous 4.0 races simply do not exist). |
| #10Madfox11Nov 23, 2010 9:53:25 | An opinion I don't share, since as far as I can see no lore has been removed. To some extent lore has been added, and I like what they did with the eladrin and dragonborns, but not overly much. It is almost the same. The ritual casting of 4E actually fits Eberron better in my mind then the old magic system and item creation rules. I just wish they would have taken a step further in this regards to the Dragonmarks. |
| #11jancariusseiryujinnNov 23, 2010 15:14:30 | Dragonmarks I have... mixed feelings about. I was expecting to get something like the spellscarred, only a different version for each mark. Instead we get feats, some of which are INSANELY good for certain roles (Mark of Warding for Defenders, for example), and some of which have been rendered near useless (Mark of Passage). We also no longer have scaling on them (all marks are marks, no least, lesser, greater), which is dissapointing to me. The lore they've added, I feel was shoe-horned in to support the addition of new core races that were unneccessary. Dragonborn on ARgonessen fine, dragonborn on Qbara are just lizardmen. Frankly, I don't care for the Dragonborn as a race, and they, and most of hte other new 4th ed races are just goofy joke races in my mind. It's impossible to take a player being one seriously most of the time. Call it fantastic racism (which it pretty much is), but the majority of any given party should be humans, with a mix of the other classic 'core' races thrown in. It's also the WAY the lore in the 4th ed books was written that dissapoints me. It had hte same... tone I guess I'd call it, as the 4th ed core books... flavorless and lacking real inspiration. I never felt the since of inspiration for plots and ideas reading the 4th ed books, unlike hte 3.5, where I would bust out a notebook in the middle of class and start writing plot ideas. |
| #12m4kitsuNov 26, 2010 4:08:10 | So, Elton of the Creepy Uncanny Valley Avatar, I have a question for you: You seem to have a number of gripes with the formatting of the book, and you draw several comparisons to the PHB1, which you also appear to dislike for the same reasons... but what are those reasons? You never say why you dislike the formatting. I'm getting from context that you're not a fan of 4e overall, but that seems a very poor excuse for what may be a fine viewpoint column, but is really a very poor review. The point of a review is to explain the strengths and weaknesses of the book and let readers judge for themselves whether or not the product is worth their money, correct? That being the case, call this what it is: an opinion. You also seem to be pushing some rather strong opinions about the business and the industry (and the economy) that I fear are coloring your "review" as well, and your repetition with these points, rather than data points about the book, reads to me as someone with an ulterior motive that they'd much rather be discussing. @JancariusSeiryujinn: The essential issue with the book, that Elton failed to mention, is length. The book is short compared to the ECS, and they were attempting to compress a dozen volumes-worth of information into a single half-size book. Considering their target pagecount and the sheer amount of detail they were working with, the authors did an adequate, if not exceptional job. The ECG, on the other hand, feels very much more like the 3.5 Eberron books, echoing the fantastic attention to detail of Sharn: City of Towers and Secrets of Sarlona. There are only two 3.5 Eberron books I don't own (Secrets of Xen'Drik and Dragons of Eberron, if you're curious -neither was of much use to me), and I view the 4e EPG and ECG as edition-relevant companion pieces to that line, an updated overview that provides a linking point between the gameplay of 4e and the fluff of the 3.5 series. It would, I rather think, be difficult to break into Eberron as a 4e player with no prior knowledge of the 3.5 books. While I sidestep the issue personally, I suspect this entry barrier is a great part of the deemphasis on Campaign-specific material that 4e has exhibited so far. It's a shame, if you ask me. |
| #13accuserNov 28, 2010 13:37:53 | The lore they've added, I feel was shoe-horned in to support the addition of new core races that were unneccessary. Dragonborn on ARgonessen fine, dragonborn on Qbara are just lizardmen. Frankly, I don't care for the Dragonborn as a race, and they, and most of hte other new 4th ed races are just goofy joke races in my mind. It's impossible to take a player being one seriously most of the time. Call it fantastic racism (which it pretty much is), but the majority of any given party should be humans, with a mix of the other classic 'core' races thrown in. "I believe my perspective of this fantasy world is the only valid one, and do not like it when people have different opinions." It would, I rather think, be difficult to break into Eberron as a 4e player with no prior knowledge of the 3.5 books. As a player who did exactly that, I can assure you that it was not that difficult. |
| #14jancariusseiryujinnNov 29, 2010 12:34:29 | Frankly, Accuser, yeah. I think having walking crystals, walking trees, and other absurdities ruins the suspension of disbelief I try and create in my games. Anytime any player chooses to play one of the very-far-from-human races, I make a constant RP issue of it, which townsfolk reacting in all the ways townsfolk do (typically running, yelling, or lynching). I personally would be disturbed if a giant tree walked up and asked if I had a grappling hook and some rope for sale, and in a land where magical creatures regularly roam around and kill NPCs like myself whenever the DM needs a plot hook, I'd be pretty wary of anything outside the core. Dragonborn, while not as silly as some of the other races, ARE pretty intimidating (they can fire a 5x5 elemental blast out their mouths. As a regular shopkeep, that is intimidating as hell). They almost universally generate fear reactions in NPCs (outside of Sharn, where pretty much weird is normal in the Lower wards). |
| #15AlasNov 30, 2010 4:20:29 | tanget/Dragonmarks I have... mixed feelings about. I was expecting to get something like the spellscarred, only a different version for each mark. Instead we get feats, some of which are INSANELY good for certain roles (Mark of Warding for Defenders, for example), and some of which have been rendered near useless (Mark of Passage). Mark of Passage allows the bearer to shift or teleport an extra square. For classes with access to a lot of shifting and teleporting powers (monk, ranger, rogue, druid, warlock, wizard), that's incredibly useful. For one thing, it makes shifting through difficult terrain possible more often. /tangent |
| #16Madfox11Nov 30, 2010 5:03:31 | Frankly, Accuser, yeah. I think having walking crystals, walking trees, and other absurdities ruins the suspension of disbelief I try and create in my games. Anytime any player chooses to play one of the very-far-from-human races, I make a constant RP issue of it, which townsfolk reacting in all the ways townsfolk do (typically running, yelling, or lynching). I personally would be disturbed if a giant tree walked up and asked if I had a grappling hook and some rope for sale, and in a land where magical creatures regularly roam around and kill NPCs like myself whenever the DM needs a plot hook, I'd be pretty wary of anything outside the core. Dragonborn, while not as silly as some of the other races, ARE pretty intimidating (they can fire a 5x5 elemental blast out their mouths. As a regular shopkeep, that is intimidating as hell). They almost universally generate fear reactions in NPCs (outside of Sharn, where pretty much weird is normal in the Lower wards). Each DM should obviously run his campaign as he and his players like best, but personally I always get rather peeved when I run across DMs/players who have this attitude towards so-called odd creatures. It is such a RL point of view that somehow completely misses how common oddness actually is in any typical D&D setting, let alone Eberron. Of course, a walking tree is going to generate a weird reaction when you come across it in your local mall, but RL is NOT Eberron. In RL dwarves, halflings, dinosaurs, shifters, changelings and goblins would generate the exact same reaction. Why would a shardmind be any weirder than a warforged, dinosaur riding halfling, shifter ranger or bugbear soldier in Eberron? Sure, the average villager in a backwater region of Breland is not going to see that warforged or dinosaur riding halfling on a daily basis (if ever), but all the war veterans will have seen them and they certainly told stories of these to their fellow villagers. These stories don't depict these creatures in a particular negative light either, so there is also no reason to assume that the local hill billies will automatically assume a human-sized talking tree or intelligent crystal creature is any more evil and dangerous then a warforged or halfling. (Considering the generic danger of anything bigger than humans (think trolls, ogres, and giants) the same might likely not be true for Large size creatures. What is more, I always find it funny when I hear these kind of stories and than ask how the other PCs in the group look like. Do you really think that the gnoll in leather armor with a large bow is going to generate more stares than the human in black full plate decorated with skull paterns, the dwarf warrior with more weapons than can be found in a fort's armory and a demeanor that would sour milk or the elf wizard in red robes with a cloak consisting of burning flames and the ability to level an entire village with a flick of his wand? All adventurers by definition are going to generate suspicious stares and fear from any sane humanoid. Adventurers are unpredictable, and extremely dangerous when provoked. I just have difficulties imagening simple farmers daring to grab their torches to target one member of said group just because it looks like a tree or a lizardfolk who might or might not breath fire. |
| #17jancariusseiryujinnNov 30, 2010 15:26:41 | None of my PCs wear black skull armor. This is D&D, not World of Warcraft. The PCs who bother to decorate their armor tend to decorate it in holy symbols (most heavy armor wearers I have are some kind of divine class). Othertimes, they'll use dragons or other 'major fantasy' creatures like gryphons or phoenixs or the like as a decorative theme. Outside of Karnath, anyway. In Karnath, black skull armor is called "military gear". And here's why a shardmind would be weirder than a warforged. Warforged have been around nearly two decades, and are well involved in the lore. Average Villager A has probably seen at least one warforged in his lifetime, knows what they are, and where they come from (House Cannith wants you to know where you, too, can buy your very own warforged legion!). A shardmind is a sentient rock from space. It has no real place in Eberron lore, certainly not as a PC. Maybe if they were going adventuring in the planes, and they found it out there. Or maybe somewhere in Riedra, a side effect of the Quori's crystal monoliths or the like. While the party can get by saying "Oh, it's a golem" (which Eberron commoners I presume are familar with on the same basis as Warforged), crystal golems are certainly much more unusual. Dinosaur mounted halflings are probably actually relatively common if you live anywhere near Talenta. If not, I imagine it's about as common as a dude on a horse in real life. Eye catching, but not as much as a tree that wants to buy an adventurer's kit. Thirdly, gnolls? Not really a typical adventuring companion either, unless your party is from Darguun. And that would probably generate a 'get the militia' reaction as well, given that most gnolls encountered are typically either mercenaries, bandits, or raider/slavers, none of which the village wants around. Beyond even the reaction aspect, good luck trying to blend into a city as a shardmind. "Hey, have you seen that walking crystal thing?" "Oh, yeah, EVERYBODY ON THE STREET WATCHED IT GO THAT WAY" versus "Have you seen a tall human, long dark hair?" "Umm... like 50 of em." and even more extreme in less populous areas. In Q'barra, where the Khorvaire dragonfolk has been deposited (since someone realized a race that only makes sense in Argonessen might have some difficulty stretching their backgrounds to cross continents for each character), my reaction to a dragonfolk would be "surround it with armed men, ask it what it wants. If it's not peaceful, kill it." where as the expected reaction to 4-6 humans, elves, dwarves, and the like would be "sup, want to buy stuff? Oh, and can you kill that tribe of lizard things nearby that competes with our food supply?". Also, pretty sure Eberron dwarves completly violate the "always grumpy scotts" brand of Dwarfing, in the same way the elves of Eberron vary from Klingons to Goths, to Human With Pointy Ears. |
| #18skeptical_clownDec 04, 2010 9:48:23 | It's generally not my experience that human beings react to weird people by screaming, running or lynching. Most people who pass by someone strange and frightening, but not overtly threatening, will probably just ignore them, or maybe try to trade with them or take advantage of them. Now, if weirdos started showing up and trying to LIVE in your town, that would be a different story. |
| #19accuserDec 04, 2010 15:13:06 | It's perfectly alright if you want to run your game like that. I would argue that you aren't being true to the spirit of Eberron. Remember, in Eberron they aren't necessarily monsters; they're taxpayers. Your average yokel is still going to be intimidated by, say, a Hag, even if she is a head of state, but the player characters are not average yokels. Personally, I don't care for Shardminds or Wilden either. But, y'know, whatever. If a player can give me an interesting hook, I'm fine with it. |
| #20m4kitsuDec 11, 2010 20:12:15 | If a player can give me an interesting hook, I'm fine with it. And that's the whole of the thing, really. An interesting hook, or an explanation that makes an unusual race fit in better with the world -I can see a Shardmind, for example, played as an experimental type of Warforged. |
| #21AegeriDec 12, 2010 8:15:25 | I am confused by the OPs assertion that Goblinoid races have become regarded as nothing more to be killed. The overall setting is the PG plus the ECG. The ECG is no different in tone to anything else and the PG being written only from the official races POV (which is not favorable to those races) makes perfect sense. Is there something I missed? |
| #22jancariusseiryujinnDec 14, 2010 13:53:16 | The 3.5 ECG presented the goblinoids as full on civilization. In fact, my 3.5 Eberron campaign allows bugbears, hobgoblins, and goblins as standard player choices. Numerous novels and 3.5 materials talk about the rich history of Dhakaar, and make it clear that the goblinoids of Eberron are more than isolated tribes of XP or a ravening horde of unstoppable might. |
| #23HellcowDec 17, 2010 15:17:17 | The 3.5 ECG presented the goblinoids as full on civilization... Numerous novels and 3.5 materials talk about the rich history of Dhakaar... Well, bear in mind that the novels transcend edition, and that two thirds of the Legacy of Dhakaan series were written in the 4E era. Beyond that, pages 110-115 of the 4E ECG presents full history of the Dhakaan and its role in modern Darguun, including the Duur'kala, Khesh'dar, Kech Shaarat, and Kech Volaar. The writers of the EPG decided to present the material in the book from the viewpoint of a typical citizen of the Five Nations, and the fact of the matter is that the typical Thrane doesn't know anything about the Xoriat Incursion that occured thousands of years before humans arrived on Khorvaire. Thus the EPG is an unreliable narrator when it comes to the Goblins. But nothing has changed in 4E Eberron, and the ECG presents the full story about Dhakaan and Darguun - the same story that's been there since the begining. |