Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kawnell Apr 21, 2011 21:22:56	I'm worried about the "end boss fight" against Khurystas the blue dragon atop the Orrey of Vartuum. I'm coming to the end of running a converted to 4e Eyes of the Lich Queen. When I was making the conversion, I designed it for 5 players.  At the last minute, one player dropped.  I never adjusted the encounters for 4 players, but it never seemed to be a challenge, so I never worried about it.  Just in time for the final chapter player 5 comes back, and I breathe my first sigh of relief wondering how the party was going to handle 6 encounters in a row.  Knowing that if 4 PCs handled the encounters under Dreadhold well, then the Orrey would be a reasonable set of challenges. Until I did my final review to make sure I had the monster tactics good in my head.  How are my players going to survive this kind of damage output at range 20?  Has anyone run this for 4e that can give me some insight?  Any DM had their group go up a blue dragon that hovers out of range 3/4 of the fight? Thanks for any advice. Have Fun p.s.  I figured I'd get better advice here than the [What's a DM to do?] board, as you could make adventure or Eberron specific suggestions.
#2 Magicstar1 Apr 23, 2011 3:09:10	No idea about the 4th edition stats but the party I ran this for in 3.5 steamrolled the encounter. The had virtually no trouble at all with it. Thinking back on it: (never saw the 4th edition conversion) Weren't there a few encounters that could be skipped with smart thinking (specters come to mind) All combats use lightning, the master monks and the blue dragon. Give them some opportunity to get some resistance. As for the dragon itself, it can just blast the PCs from the sky. Build something in the encounter to remedy that. Maybe the buffeting winds keep it close or it actually needs to be at the top of the orrey to keep sustaining a ritual of some sorts. If you keep it in close range make sure to give it some more powers, monsters have underwent a significant update with MM3 and the Monster Vault. Take the red dragon in their for ideas and take a look at HP and defenses. Good luck and let us know how it went!
#3 Madfox11 Apr 23, 2011 3:55:13	The 4E problem of a monster with range 20 at-will attacks, while few PCs have those and even fewer with a meaningful damage output. The blue dragon in the Monster Vault still has the at-will range 20 attack, so while it is still a good idea to use those, it will not solve your problem. The fact is that in 4E it is harder to deal with flying opponents than in 4E, so converting that particular encounter requires a bit more work than simply copying the 4E blue dragon stats. In my experience there are two ways to solve this: (1) Give the PCs an opportunity to duck for cover, forcing the monster to get down and within reach. Mind you, the blue dragon has a wingblast power that poses a significant risk in this regard as well. Although, if you do have the right kind of PCs one should be able to knock the dragon prone. Knocking prone or stunning are the two most effective tactics against flying targets. (2) Add some kind of environmental effect or terrain power that forces the flying opponent to get within melee reach. The storm suggestion by Magicstar is one option. In the Living Forgotten Realms adventure CORE1-10 Dancing Shadows we added a fey item, a dragon egg, that if properly used forced the dragon to come down and get the egg for example (or something similar) is another. The benefit of such a terrain power is that it makes the PCs active participants in getting the dragon down. Ultimately it is hard to deal with flying opponents in 4E, and sometimes I wonder whether the designers realized this or not. It is not as if they reduce defenses and hit points of flying monsters with long range ranged attacks to compensate for the fact that most PCs will not be dealing much damage with just basic ranged weapon attacks ;)
#4 kawnell Apr 28, 2011 12:07:40	Just wanted to give some thanks to those who replied or got in contact with me and give some feedback. I did a couple things to aid the encounter.  First I knocked 1/4 of the hit points off of the dragon (as it had been fighting prior to him noticing and confronting the PCs).  I didn't change the total hitpoints, so he just hit bloodied faster than normal.  Also, I played to the motivation of wanting the ritual to go off without a hitch, and for Surkil to take the blame for it. So as the players moved Surkil towards the center of the tower (and eventually inside), Khurystas moved in to try to thwart that (and eventually came into the tower to prevent Surkil's escape). Effectively, the players decided that they didn't want to fight at long range, and changed the battlefield without much work on my part.  8-) Have Fun
#5 Elton74 Apr 28, 2011 13:59:32	I'd just have a total party kill and tell them to do better next time.
#6 Madfox11 Apr 29, 2011 5:00:08	I'd just have a total party kill and tell them to do better next time. That only works if the party is to blame. Flying monsters with long ranged attacks and no ability for the PCs to lure the enemy closer or seek cover is going to get you a TPK simply because in 4E there are very few classes that pose a decent threat at range of more than 10 squares. In that case there is absolutely nothing to teach, except that you as a DM found and exploited a weakness of the game and that maybe next time you will have a boring archer ranger in the group (and even than I am unsure one ranger is enough to kill a blue dragon) ;)